BuffaloSol Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 14 hours ago, elijah said: If you’re choosing Allen over Watson you’re blinding yourself as a Bills fan. This shouldn’t be a debate. Im as big of an Allen supporter as there is, but Watson is primed to be one of the best in the league for a long long time. You're not an Allen supporter. We get it you think he isn't going to be good. You probably thought that pre draft and now have to defend your stance.
dave mcbride Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) Watson has an extremely high 8.1 ypa average over his first three seasons (37 games). Since I regard ypa as probably the most important stat in terms of judging a qb, the case to me seems to be pretty well closed. Allen’s is 6.6, btw. As for TD/INT ratio, watson’s is 71/29 and Allen’s is 30/21. Watson also led the Texans to a victory over NE, something Allen hasn’t done yet. Edited January 2, 2020 by dave mcbride 1
thebandit27 Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 Right now Watson is the better player, but it’s a lot closer than I expected it to be even 2 months ago. 3
Orlando Buffalo Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 14 hours ago, GoBills808 said: Watson's very good, better than Allen as of right now, but I've seen him be just as inconsistent w/mechanics and poor play and that's with MUCH better guys to work with. This Texans team in general is totally schizophrenic. Give me the Bills and Allen this Saturday and going forward too. This is where I am- I have only watched a few games of Texans in the past two years but I see a guy in Watson who is not consistent during the game. He is good but certainly not elite.
BuffaloSol Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Watson has an extremely 8.1 ypa average over his first three seasons (37 games). Since I regard ypa as probably the most important stat in terms of judging a qb, the case to me seems to be pretty well closed. Allen’s is 6.6, btw. As for TD/INT ratio, watson’s is 71/29 and Allen’s is 30/21. Watson also led the Texans to a victory over NE, something Allen hasn’t done yet. Oh I love comparing guys drafted the same year in the same offensive system.
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: If I pick Watson, do Deandre Hopkins, Will Fuller, and Carlos Hyde come too? I wax Biblical when it comes to Deandre Hopkins. I Covet him. Hap, you are touting Hyde (who has been passed around the league like a hockey puck and just has the best season of his career with Watson) and Fuller (he averages like 500 yards a season because he is as durable at Glass Goodwin) as major reasons for Watson’s success? it’s great to be hikers but it’s also ok to be objective and realistic. We are comparing Allen to a guy who is off to one of the greatest qb starts in nfl history, who is at times a top 5 qb after being one of the greatest college qbs ever. He is absolutely much better than Allen at this point. Luckily, it takes more than one player to win a game and the Bills might be better as a team than the Texans. But some of these posts are out there. 2
BarleyNY Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 9 hours ago, John from Riverside said: My point is that Watson's offensive weapons are better then Allens.....period Outside of QB the only two offensive players on Houston that I take over ours are Hopkins and Tunsil. That’s it. The rest of their OL is poor. Their TEs are a joke and their RBs are pedestrian. I’d take Beasley over Fuller in the slot and Smoke over Stills. As for QB, Hopkins is a top 10 QB in this league. Allen is not close to that today. But I think he still might be okay on Saturday. Romeo Crennel likes to play a disciplined, but passive 3-4 with a lot of zone. That’s exactly what Allen thrives against so we might have a really favorable matchup in this game. I like our chances to get the W. 1
kbarrettb Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) Watson 67% completion 3800 yards passing 26 tds Allen 58% completion 3000 yards passing 20 tds as of right now it’s Watson he’s been consistently better during his career than Allen and it’s not really close. Doesn’t mean Allen won’t get to Watson’s level but as of now he’s not there. If we had Watson playing quarterback for us right now like someone else said we’d be at worst a number 2 seed. Edited January 2, 2020 by kbarrettb
colin Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 watson is sick and to date is clearly a better qb than allen. i'll give the future to allen tho, his raw talent and energy are off the charts, and watson has the benefit of much better college prep and much much better weapons through out his career (imagine fuller and hopkins over benjamin and zay jones for allens first year and this year?!! watson's protection was trash last year, but ours was perhaps just a tiny bit less trash, i won't say better). as far as who is better today? we'll find out on saturday.
thebandit27 Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 32 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Hap, you are touting Hyde (who has been passed around the league like a hockey puck and just has the best season of his career with Watson) and Fuller (he averages like 500 yards a season because he is as durable at Glass Goodwin) as major reasons for Watson’s success? it’s great to be hikers but it’s also ok to be objective and realistic. We are comparing Allen to a guy who is off to one of the greatest qb starts in nfl history, who is at times a top 5 qb after being one of the greatest college qbs ever. He is absolutely much better than Allen at this point. Luckily, it takes more than one player to win a game and the Bills might be better as a team than the Texans. But some of these posts are out there. let’s be fair here... Hyde is having his best season as a pro. That helps a lot. Fuller may be perpetually banged up, but there’s no denying how impactful he is when he’s on the field. He’s been Watson’s most reliable deep threat. He also has had enormous games in the past 2 years—he had 14 receptions in week 5 alone.
IgotBILLStopay Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 15 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: Agreed A football conversation with somebody saying they'd rather have Watson sparked this interest in me Nice poll. I could go either way. But I like Tre plus JA over Watson for sure.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, kbarrettb said: Watson 67% completion 3800 yards passing 26 tds Allen 58% completion 3000 yards passing 20 tds as of right now it’s Watson he’s been consistently better during his career than Allen and it’s not really close. Doesn’t mean Allen won’t get to Watson’s level but as of now he’s not there. If we had Watson playing quarterback for us right now like someone else said we’d be at worst a number 2 seed. I don’t think the Bills were ready to draft a QB in 2017. I know that may sound silly, but I really think Beane and McDermott wanted to build a team together. Beane wasn’t drafting players in 2017. I do believe Beane and McDermott knew 2018 would have some very good QB talent as well. Watson played at Clemson and played against the best competition in the country twice against Bama. Watson beat Nick Saban the second time around. Watson is a gamer. No doubt about it. I think Watson is a finished product. I don’t think he will get much better than what he is now. Watson also has an offensive minded HC who has surrounded Watson with great WR’s and other pieces on the offense. Allen is in his second season of facing major talent. Allen is in his first season of being surrounded by competent talent on offense. I don’t think we know what Allen’s ceiling is yet. I think Watson and Allen will have great careers. I wouldn’t be surprised if both of them win a SB and an MVP. Edited January 2, 2020 by atlbillsfan1975
MJS Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 Both QB's are at a different point in their careers. Allen is younger and more inexperienced, but developing quickly. Watson is already established as a franchise QB, but the Texans haven't performed in the post season despite making it every year in a weak division. Do you take the guy who has been really good in the regular season but hasn't shown he can get the job done in the post season, or do you take the younger, developing QB who has shown flashes and seems to play his best in crunch time? Since this is a Bills message board the poll results reflect that, but I suspect if this was done nationally Watson would win in a landslide.
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 16 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: let’s be fair here... Hyde is having his best season as a pro. That helps a lot. Fuller may be perpetually banged up, but there’s no denying how impactful he is when he’s on the field. He’s been Watson’s most reliable deep threat. He also has had enormous games in the past 2 years—he had 14 receptions in week 5 alone. Hyde is having his best season because he benefits from playing with Watson. No one fears Hyde. They fear the Texans passing attack so Hyde rarely sees 8 guys in the box. He is a dime a dozen rb. and I agree Fuller is talent but he can’t stay healthy and averages 500 yards/ season. Hard to say a guy like that is a major reason for Watson’s success.
kbarrettb Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: I don’t think the Bills were ready to draft a QB in 2017. I know that may sound silly, but I really think Beane and McDermott wanted to build a team together. Beane wasn’t drafting players in 2017. I do believe Beane and McDermott knew 2018 would have some very good QB talent as well. Watson played at Clemson and played against the best competition in the country twice against Bama. Watson beat Nick Saban the second time around. Watson is a gamer. No doubt about it. I think Watson is a finished product. I don’t think he will get much better than what he is now. Watson also has an offensive minded HC who has surrounded Watson with great WR’s and other pieces on the offense. Allen is in his second season of facing major talent. Allen is in his first season of being surrounded by competent talent on offense. I don’t think we know what Allen’s ceiling is yet. I think Watson and Allen will have great careers. I wouldn’t be surprised if both of them win a SB and an MVP. 11 minutes ago, MJS said: Both QB's are at a different point in their careers. Allen is younger and more inexperienced, but developing quickly. Watson is already established as a franchise QB, but the Texans haven't performed in the post season despite making it every year in a weak division. Do you take the guy who has been really good in the regular season but hasn't shown he can get the job done in the post season, or do you take the younger, developing QB who has shown flashes and seems to play his best in crunch time? Since this is a Bills message board the poll results reflect that, but I suspect if this was done nationally Watson would win in a landslide. The question isn’t who is going to end up with better numbers at the end of their career it’s who would you want on Saturday which means who’s the better quarterback right now. And the better quarterback right now is unquestionably Watson. The Bills probably have the better team and I think they have a great chance to win Saturday. If you put Watson on the Bills and Allen on the Texans for the season the Bills would be a touchdown plus favorite over the Texans. Edited January 2, 2020 by kbarrettb
MJS Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, kbarrettb said: The question isn’t who is going to end up with better numbers at the end of their career it’s who would you want on Saturday which means who’s the better quarterback right now. And the better quarterback right now is unquestionably Watson. The Bills probably have the better team and I think they have a great chance to win Saturday. If you put Watson on the Bills and Allen on the Texans for the season the Bills would be a touchdown plus favorite over the Texans. That's your opinion. Watson looked pretty poor in his lone playoff game. Allen has shown he performs best in crunch time and in big games. I voted for Watson, but I can certainly see why Bills fans would vote for their QB.
kbarrettb Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, MJS said: That's your opinion. Watson looked pretty poor in his lone playoff game. Allen has shown he performs best in crunch time and in big games. I voted for Watson, but I can certainly see why Bills fans would vote for their QB. Anyone can vote for anyone. But the stats over the course of the season clearly states one qb is better than the other. On one day someone can be better we’ve seen that. If Allen had the season Watson had this year this team would have probably won the division. 67>58 1
thebandit27 Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 23 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Hyde is having his best season because he benefits from playing with Watson. No one fears Hyde. They fear the Texans passing attack so Hyde rarely sees 8 guys in the box. He is a dime a dozen rb. and I agree Fuller is talent but he can’t stay healthy and averages 500 yards/ season. Hard to say a guy like that is a major reason for Watson’s success. how sure are you that that’s true about Hyde? According to NextGen, he’s facing 8+ in the box on 14.6 percent of his snaps. That’s actually a higher percentage than the previous best season of his career (2016 - 12.9%). Ironically, the guy that benefits the most in the entire NFL from facing 8+ in the box the least is...Devin Singletary. He faces 8+ DIB on only 5.3% of his snaps. As to Fuller, there’s a noticeable difference in Watson’s numbers with and without him: Career with Fuller: 466/700 (66.5%), 6,083 yards (8.68 YPA), 50 TDs, 20 INTs Career without Fuller: 338/504 (67%), 3,634 yards (7.21 YPA), 21 TDs, 9 INTs 1
buffalobillswin Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 Just a heads up. It makes Bills fans seem very lowbrow and uneducated when we say stuff like Josh Allen is better than Deshaun Watson. I’m all for homerism but some of you are beyond delusional. 1
dave mcbride Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 17 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: how sure are you that that’s true about Hyde? According to NextGen, he’s facing 8+ in the box on 14.6 percent of his snaps. That’s actually a higher percentage than the previous best season of his career (2016 - 12.9%). Ironically, the guy that benefits the most in the entire NFL from facing 8+ in the box the least is...Devin Singletary. He faces 8+ DIB on only 5.3% of his snaps. As to Fuller, there’s a noticeable difference in Watson’s numbers with and without him: Career with Fuller: 466/700 (66.5%), 6,083 yards (8.68 YPA), 50 TDs, 20 INTs Career without Fuller: 338/504 (67%), 3,634 yards (7.21 YPA), 21 TDs, 9 INTs Forget Will Fuller for a second. Kenny Stills has had multiple big games vs. the Bills over the years going back to New Orleans.
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