thebandit27 Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Billl said: That’s a relief. I thought I watched him blow a 16 point lead yesterday. You going to Kansas City to watch him play for a spot in the AFCCG? So now Allen blew the lead too? I’m gonna take a break for a few days until Allen Derangement Syndrome wears off ?
oldmanfan Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, Billl said: That’s a relief. I thought I watched him blow a 16 point lead yesterday. You going to Kansas City to watch him play for a spot in the AFCCG? QBs get better at reading defenses and such as they gain experience. Quit being a clown.
Billl Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: So now Allen blew the lead too? I’m gonna take a break for a few days until Allen Derangement Syndrome wears off ? They went over 20 minutes without scoring, and he fumbled the ball to Houston without being touched and gave them a short field. Yeah, he blew the lead. I mean I thought he did. Fortunately, OMF confirmed that I was wrong and this didn’t happen. I’ve got a lot to learn about football. Can you believe I was silly enough to think the 19 points scored was the most all year against a playoff team?
Sundancer Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 Watson is the better QB now, but Allen is "my" QB and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Brand J Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 Brees was such an anomaly, to be a relatively ho-hum QB his first couple years and then to transform to All Pro then to HOF quality, he’s just an outlier. I will say Allen - as much as he needs to improve - could possibly take another great leap in year three, because no other 1st round QBs come into the league with a resume as lacking as his. The fact he’s a first round QB with elite athletic traits gives him a longer leash than say, a 3rd rounder with the same traits and limited collegiate production. As much as I hope to see him improve, the Bills should also have eyes on drafting another young gun for next season.
Buddy Hix Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: But they all got better in year 3. Right? No 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: I would say Watson was better this year than two years ago. And several others have already been listed. So you’re wrong. We were discussing improvements from year 2 to year 3...so you're wrong and also not great at comprehension.
78thealltimegreat Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 Not really a good topic with that game so fresh in memories.. last year Watson was shutout by the colts at home in the playoffs and we don’t have a receiver right now that's in the same stadium with Hopkins...in two years I have no doubt Josh will be just as good if not better then Watson 1
oldmanfan Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Buddy Hix said: No We were discussing improvements from year 2 to year 3...so you're wrong and also not great at comprehension. You made up an artificial construct and provided no data at all to back up your conclusion. So your opinion is no better or worse than mine.
Jaywrizzo Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 5 hours ago, jrober38 said: This board is filled with homers who don't watch anyone but the Bills play football. Two weeks ago, 8 people went on record saying they wouldn't take Lamar Jackson over Josh Allen. Totally insane. Hahaha......And they'll tell you, they know about football. 1
Buddy Hix Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: You made up an artificial construct and provided no data at all to back up your conclusion. So your opinion is no better or worse than mine. We were discussing improvements of QBs from year 2 to year 3, as that is what we are all looking for in Allen. You chimed in that Watson showed improvements from year 1 to year 3, which is A) irrelevant to what we were talking about and B) not even true as his rating and QBR both declined. As I stated, your comprehension skills are sorely lacking. But keep telling every poster that they are wrong, it suits you. 1
Billl Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 13 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said: Not really a good topic with that game so fresh in memories.. last year Watson was shutout by the colts at home in the playoffs and we don’t have a receiver right now that's in the same stadium with Hopkins...in two years I have no doubt Josh will be just as good if not better then Watson He managed to throw a TD pass in that shutout somehow.
oldmanfan Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, Buddy Hix said: We were discussing improvements of QBs from year 2 to year 3, as that is what we are all looking for in Allen. You chimed in that Watson showed improvements from year 1 to year 3, which is A) irrelevant to what we were talking about and B) not even true as his rating and QBR both declined. As I stated, your comprehension skills are sorely lacking. But keep telling every poster that they are wrong, it suits you. Show me data to prove your point then. But you won’t. So your opinion has no more or less value than anyone else.
CardinalScotts Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 do i get hopkins too? then ill take Josh....we saw Watson and all his greatness for 4 quarters- he did finally make a play allowed to keep playing from the stripes
GunnerBill Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 45 minutes ago, Buddy Hix said: No Yes they did.
78thealltimegreat Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Billl said: He managed to throw a TD pass in that shutout somehow. Garbage time when game was already decided
Buddy Hix Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 2 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Show me data to prove your point then. But you won’t. So your opinion has no more or less value than anyone else. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2012/quarterback-development-patterns Not sure why I keep engaging with a guy who is incapable of discussing topics in an earnest fashion, but here we are.
oldmanfan Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 Just now, Buddy Hix said: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2012/quarterback-development-patterns Not sure why I keep engaging with a guy who is incapable of discussing topics in an earnest fashion, but here we are. Looking at the graphs, the data discusses changes in the rankings; they do not from what I can tell assess whether or not they are positive or negative changes, nor did he provide any statistics to claim whether differences were real or not. I review a ton of scientific manuscripts for publications, and when they get rejected it is mostly because of faulty study design or data analysis. This study looks like it falls in that category. You claimed the only guy to improve from his first or second year was Brees. Just for the heck of it I picked a guy that some compare Allen to early in his career: Favre. And if you look at Favre second and third seasons he improved. Others have mentioned guys like Stafford and others. So to me you are way overstating your case. I also question why you chose the construct of just year 2 to year 3. Another good example of extending the time of analysis would be a guy you saw today: Cousins. Took him quite a while and some failures to finally win s big game. Sometimes you have to experience the lows to get to the highs. The random nature of the data showed in the study you cite after year 3 also suggests that. None of us know what Allen will or will not become. But if you’re trying to suggest that the Bills should move on from Allen now because he can’t get better next year or after, your data just doesn’t show that.
Buddy Hix Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Yes they did. I think the point we were discussing was Allen's ability to take another leap from year 2 to year 3, correct? Show me the leaps your talking about in the data below. Ryan (top) was pretty much the same QB all three seasons. Did Ryan have marginal improvements from year 2 to 3, sure. Are we looking for Allen to marginally improve his 45 QBR? No, I think Allen needs significant improvement next year. Allen is below average in virtually every passing metric for QBs. Newton (bottom) is similar to Ryan, showing 2 to 5% improvements in both ratings year over year over year. Again, not what we were talking about. Stafford did show a great improvement from year 2 to 3 but I would attribute that to his injury in year two where he missed 13 games, lol. This falls more inline with the thinking that a QBs significant improvement zone is between years 1 and 2. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2012/quarterback-development-patterns We are all hoping for a big leap from Allen next year, but don't pretend it's a common occurrence.
GunnerBill Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, Buddy Hix said: I think the point we were discussing was Allen's ability to take another leap from year 2 to year 3, correct? Show me the leaps your talking about in the data below. Ryan (top) was pretty much the same QB all three seasons. Did Ryan have marginal improvements from year 2 to 3, sure. Are we looking for Allen to marginally improve his 45 QBR? No, I think Allen needs significant improvement next year. Allen is below average in virtually every passing metric for QBs. Newton (bottom) is similar to Ryan, showing 2 to 5% improvements in both ratings year over year over year. Again, not what we were talking about. Stafford did show a great improvement from year 2 to 3 but I would attribute that to his injury in year two where he missed 13 games, lol. This falls more inline with the thinking that a QBs significant improvement zone is between years 1 and 2. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2012/quarterback-development-patterns We are all hoping for a big leap from Allen next year, but don't pretend it's a common occurrence. I take your point to an extent on Cam. I disagree totally on Ryan. His third year was a leap. Up in completion %, up in yards, up in touchdowns (and significantly so) and down in INTs. Ryan and Stafford are absolutely examples of guys who took year 3 leaps (whatever you want to attribute Stafford's too). I will remove Cam from my list. In my head his first year was not as good passing wise as the numbers indicate. Memory fails us all occasionally.
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