GunnerBill Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Watson threw to himself and ran it all himself. Not. There's a reason why DeAndre Hopkins is All World and when I see him, I Covet. I don't want to take away from Watson, who played great, but it helped him a lot that he was throwing to DeAndre Hopkins and that they were able to generate consistent rush yards with Hyde and Johnson. Like I said, this loss is a real Rorschach test for people's inner biases. I am sorry but as great as DHop is that win yesterday was more about Watson than DHop. Even that deep ball while he ran a great route the throw was absolute perfection. Talk about in the bucket. Wasn't Hopkins who scrambled in for their first 8 points to get them back in the game. Wasn't Hopkins who overcame an utterly inept offensive line performance to avoid pressure time after time and ultimately so to make the game winning play. Hopkins was good yesterday. He was 6 for 90 but he also had a bad fumble and was an auxiliary piece. The man who won that game for Houston yesterday more than anybody else was Deshaun Watson. Without him it just doesn't happen. 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Do you think the result would have been different if the QBs just swapped teams? Yes. I do. That isn't to say I blame Josh for the defeat. I most certainly don't. But the guy who did the most of anyone on either side to win that game yesterday was Deshaun Watson. EDIT: I should add to this that it would only have taken 3 or 4 plays going the other way for me to say I thought Josh did the most to win that game. But that is the point. The NFL comes down to small margins and those 3 or 4 really bad plays Josh had 2nd half they are the small margins. That is this league. Watson was on his 2nd go at the playoffs and he looked like a guy who had learned the hard way last year that when it is going against you then you need to just stick in there, avoid the killer mistake and eventually there will be a chance to make your plays. That is what Josh needs to learn from this loss. However anyone suggesting the "blame" lies at Josh's door is wrong. Edited January 5, 2020 by GunnerBill 1
Billl Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 3 hours ago, thebandit27 said: So let me see if I get this: putting your WR in position to make a play also counts, but not if it’s John Brown failing to drag his foot at the 3, which could’ve set up a key TD, or Duke dropping a TD, or Duke dropping a first down in OT? Because those things all happened. Did Watson get lucky because Daboll chose to run Frank Gore in key situations twice? You really enjoy duplicitous analyses huh? It’s comforting to know that Josh is good enough to beat a mediocre team as long as every other player on his team makes every catch, every block, his coaches call perfect plays, etc. Oh, and the other team has to drop multiple interceptions, make dumb coaching decisions, etc. as well.
oldmanfan Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, Billl said: It’s comforting to know that Josh is good enough to beat a mediocre team as long as every other player on his team makes every catch, every block, his coaches call perfect plays, etc. Oh, and the other team has to drop multiple interceptions, make dumb coaching decisions, etc. as well. So he should make the throws and the catches and the blocks and the runs in your world.
thebandit27 Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, Billl said: It’s comforting to know that Josh is good enough to beat a mediocre team as long as every other player on his team makes every catch, every block, his coaches call perfect plays, etc. Oh, and the other team has to drop multiple interceptions, make dumb coaching decisions, etc. as well. I am flabbergasted by the number of fans that feel the need to turn every Allen discussion into an either/or scenario. Don't do it. Be smart. It’s both that Allen didn’t play well enough and that his supporting cast didn’t make the plays that they could have made. 1
Billl Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 48 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: And what did Watson do in the first half ? Allen’s second half was disappointing for sure, but the coaches blew this game in a quarter and a half with a 16 point lead. Their all pro WR had 90 yards the second half as well, so he won that matchup. If either of two Bills defenders get Watson on the ground, the Bills may have pulled it out and you would be staying away from this board for at least a week or so. Watson’s first half wasn’t about what he did. It’s about what he didn’t do. He didn’t drop the ball on the ground for no reason. He didn’t panic and randomly lateral the ball backwards for no reason. He didn’t throw a jump ball to his fullback who was double covered. He didn’t throw easy pick sixes. He didn’t take a horrible penalty to cost his team points. He was bad in the first half, but he didn’t lose the game for them. He made as many splash plays as Josh, but he didn’t make the huge mistakes.
thebandit27 Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Billl said: Watson’s first half wasn’t about what he did. It’s about what he didn’t do. He didn’t drop the ball on the ground for no reason. He didn’t panic and randomly lateral the ball backwards for no reason. He didn’t throw a jump ball to his fullback who was double covered. He didn’t throw easy pick sixes. He didn’t take a horrible penalty to cost his team points. He was bad in the first half, but he didn’t lose the game for them. He made as many splash plays as Josh, but he didn’t make the huge mistakes. So you missed the easy pick-6 that Siran Neal dropped then huh? Or are you cherry picking?
GunnerBill Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Billl said: Watson’s first half wasn’t about what he did. It’s about what he didn’t do. He didn’t drop the ball on the ground for no reason. He didn’t panic and randomly lateral the ball backwards for no reason. He didn’t throw a jump ball to his fullback who was double covered. He didn’t throw easy pick sixes. He didn’t take a horrible penalty to cost his team points. He was bad in the first half, but he didn’t lose the game for them. He made as many splash plays as Josh, but he didn’t make the huge mistakes. This is true. But, as I keep saying, Watson has had one year of playoff football to learn from his mistakes. That is what we need to hope for from Josh.
CodeMonkey Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: This is true. But, as I keep saying, Watson has had one year of playoff football to learn from his mistakes. That is what we need to hope for from Josh. Without question real Bills fans hope for that kind of improvement out of Josh Allen. The question is, how likely do you think that is.
oldmanfan Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, Billl said: Watson’s first half wasn’t about what he did. It’s about what he didn’t do. He didn’t drop the ball on the ground for no reason. He didn’t panic and randomly lateral the ball backwards for no reason. He didn’t throw a jump ball to his fullback who was double covered. He didn’t throw easy pick sixes. He didn’t take a horrible penalty to cost his team points. He was bad in the first half, but he didn’t lose the game for them. He made as many splash plays as Josh, but he didn’t make the huge mistakes. And again the throw to DiMarco should have been caught; he had position and mistimed his jump. And again the lateral while dumb had no impact on the outcome of the game. And again there were no pick sixes at all, so why you would include that is mind numbingly silly. And again the intentional grounding was not much different than taking the sack. Allen made two plays that directly impacted the win: the fumble that gave them three points, and on the grounding thing he should have just thrown it away (although I think there were two penalties called that play so if correct that would not have mattered anyway). He has to protect the ball better when he runs. Needs to continue getting better at pre-snap reads and such. All valid. But you just keep continuing your little trip in Fantasyland.
Boatdrinks Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, Billl said: Watson’s first half wasn’t about what he did. It’s about what he didn’t do. He didn’t drop the ball on the ground for no reason. He didn’t panic and randomly lateral the ball backwards for no reason. He didn’t throw a jump ball to his fullback who was double covered. He didn’t throw easy pick sixes. He didn’t take a horrible penalty to cost his team points. He was bad in the first half, but he didn’t lose the game for them. He made as many splash plays as Josh, but he didn’t make the huge mistakes. He didn’t fumble, granted. That’s always a plus. However, his team had zero points. He didn’t do much of anything, Zero is zero, and it’s not good however you slice it. Almost INTs , throws into double coverage and laterals that aren’t turn overs mean exactly zero in the outcome .
GunnerBill Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 1 minute ago, CodeMonkey said: Without question real Bills fans hope for that kind of improvement out of Josh Allen. The question is, how likely do you think that is. I certainly think it is possible. I see no reason to believe it won't happen.
Reks Ryan Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 19 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Ultimately that’s true. It’s also true, however, that there were several times he made plays that were either called back by penalty, dropped, or were a whiffed block away from setting up the GW FG (looking at you, Knox). Team effort all around. That missed block is on Morse too. Both Knox and Morse forgot to block anyone. On the first QB Sweep. Morse blocked the LB and Knox made a block further downfield.
Boatdrinks Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, CodeMonkey said: Without question real Bills fans hope for that kind of improvement out of Josh Allen. The question is, how likely do you think that is. It depends on what they put around him on offense. They’re a couple players short on that side of the ball. You’re question isn’t really pertinent to the situation because like it or not, Allen’s going to be given the chance for the Bills brass ( and fans) to find out.
unclepete Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 3 hours ago, jrober38 said: This board is filled with homers who don't watch anyone but the Bills play football. Two weeks ago, 8 people went on record saying they wouldn't take Lamar Jackson over Josh Allen. Totally insane. Absolutely incredible.
Billl Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, Boatdrinks said: He didn’t fumble, granted. That’s always a plus. However, his team had zero points. He didn’t do much of anything, Zero is zero, and it’s not good however you slice it. Almost INTs , throws into double coverage and laterals that aren’t turn overs mean exactly zero in the outcome . Not all zeroes are created equal. Scoring zero points and punting is much better than fumbling or throwing a pick six. This is pretty basic stuff. You know this. It’s embarrassing to pretend that Josh belonged on the same field as Watson. Read any other team’s message board. Allen is a punchline.
oldmanfan Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, BringBackOrton said: Is taking a sack to put you out of FG range okay now? What did I write? Did I not write that the two things he did that cost us were the fumble and that he should have thrown it away on the grounding play? Did I not write that?
BringBackOrton Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, oldmanfan said: What did I write? Did I not write that the two things he did that cost us were the fumble and that he should have thrown it away on the grounding play? Did I not write that? I missed it and tried to delete it fast! My bad
CodeMonkey Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, Boatdrinks said: It depends on what they put around him on offense. They’re a couple players short on that side of the ball. You’re question isn’t really pertinent to the situation because like it or not, Allen’s going to be given the chance for the Bills brass ( and fans) to find out. Of course the question is relevant. And no one here makes team decisions. The topic of this entire thread makes it a relevant question.
GunnerBill Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, Reks Ryan said: That missed block is on Morse too. Both Knox and Morse forgot to block anyone. On the first QB Sweep. Morse blocked the LB and Knox made a block further downfield. Such a great call and well designed play. Should have been the game winner. Execution. 1
thebandit27 Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Billl said: Not all zeroes are created equal. Scoring zero points and punting is much better than fumbling or throwing a pick six. This is pretty basic stuff. You know this. It’s embarrassing to pretend that Josh belonged on the same field as Watson. Read any other team’s message board. Allen is a punchline. So not all point totals are equal? Awesome. Whose 19 points were worth more at the end of regulation? That’s a brutal take. 1
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