The Athletic All-22: Why the film shows Duke Williams should be active in the playoffs

[GunnerBill]

27 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Not counting the last game he has played 13 defensive snaps this year. Less than 1 per game. White, Wallace, Poyer, Hyde, T. Johnson, J. Johnson, K. Johnson, and Neal is enough for me.

 

If Wallace is good to go. And if he is not they likely have to bring someone up. 

46 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I think the player that should sit for Duke being active is Lee Evans......his snap count has gone down over the course of the season.....he takes too many penalties....he provides virtually NOTHING as a offensive threat.....and as you said Duke also blocks for the run.

 

I dont understand the downplay of Duke's offensive ability.....someone called a him a good pass  catcher...I can think of 2 games this year that head he been the pass catcher on the end of the pass we either win or go to overtime.

 

I dont know what the future holds for Duke....maybe in the offseason they get the bigger body guy who actually separates but I love how Duke squeezes the ball when he catches it....secures the ball....he provides something that we dont have on the field because Dawson KNox while he makes big plays also drops the ball.....Duke has been as reliable as it gets.  He just went against the jets starters and had a 100 yard game.   We dont have any size to throw to the boundry or high point the ball at wr which is missing from this offense.

 

I keep going back to Kelvin Benjamin.....who ws a disaster as a wide receiver but Josh threw Kelvin so many balls that Duke Williams would have caught (imo)

 

He did also drop balls on Sunday. But on the basis you mean Lee Smith when you said Lee Evans I agree. And that is what I would do. 

[3rdand12]

45 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Allen wouldn't have fallen, Arizona really wanted him & he would have never made it to 12.   The Bills didn't like Jackson as evidenced by the leaked draft board that had Rosen, Rudolph & Lauletta on it as the final 3 but no Jackson.  

 

Obviously, in hindsight even the biggest Allen homers (like me) will admit we shouldn't have traded the pick to KC & either drafted Mahomes or Watson.  The problem is, by not firing Whaley immediately after the season & putting his replacement in there in January, the Bills were not prepared to draft a QB to be the face of the franchise in 2017.  If you need to blame the Bills for not getting Mahomes or Watson, blame Pegula for not having a GM in place well before the 2017 draft.  It was well known in the Buffalo media (or at least by Jerry Sullivan who said in April that Whaley was leaving) that Whaley was dead GM walking.  Basically with the structure they had in place, they were not about to saddle the new GM with someone else's QB selection.  

 

[Dr.Sack]

Duke is going to be a difference maker Saturday.

[3rdand12]

1 minute ago, Dr.Sack said:

Duke is going to be a difference maker Saturday.

if he plays? he just might.

 will be interesting to see how they approach this game via play calling and players on Offense

[Scott7975]

This could have been the NE play
 

 

[Don Otreply]

45 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Main Stream Obvious

 Love the new term you just coined !

 and since you mentioned a shrubbery....

 I shall face my peril...

[transplantbillsfan]

8 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

yeah Duke is nothing but a slower, bigger pass catcher who can't yet do anything else..  With limited roster sizes,  If you are not a top 2 wideout or a top 2 DB , on most teams you better be a strong blocker or strong on special teams, neither of which Duke is remotely close to being.   Playoff football is field position football, and what I see is we have a somewhat limited, but improving talent and therefore (IMO) field position management team, and special teams is all about gaining field position advantage.   If a team like the Bills just rolls out anyone on ST they will lose the special teams field position battle and be at a bigger disadvantage  than super talented teams that can just still score a bunch of points regardless of field position.. Bills obviously do not yet have the roster on offense to do that.  just my view

 

Uhhh... sorry but a WR is supposed to be a pass catcher.

 

Ever heard of possession WRs? At the very least, that's what Duke would be. Except as the article points out, Duke is much better at route running in terms of deception than Foster is. He gets open pretty consistently. And Sunday's game should help squash the myth that he's not fast enough to play WR. 2 deep routes on Sunday for him with 1 catch and 1 very nearly a catch.

 

He's also a damn good blocker if you're actually watching him on running plays.

 

The guy should be on the field and as the article suggests we can use Taron or Kevin Johnson as our gunner... they'd be better tacklers than Foster, anyway.

 

 

Despite all of this, I expect he will be inactive because our coaches are bull headed when it comes to personnel that best fits scheme, despite the lack of actual production from them.

[CardinalScotts]

First I like Duke, i noticed they have been using Foster to run the safety off. I haven't studied it enough to see how important this is to their successful plays but you have to respect Fosters speed- Duke doesn't have that speed. Dukes ability to get yards after catch is appealing, breaking tackles big body as well as having a big target in the red zone. We do have 2 big targets in Knox and Kroft and cant find them when throwing inside the opponents 10. You have had a successful season with Isiah McKenzie-Brown and Beasley ..do you scrap that and all of a sudden it's Duke ? I doubt McDermott would do that and then you factor in special teams..you cant lose the game on special teams this year. To switch that up would scare a lot of guys. Duke is a weapon he's not Roosevelt it would show a tremendous amount of belief to do it. I liked Foster running the jet sweep although McKenzie has been good doing it he does nothing else. 

 

Sweeney at tight end is a project if he played more snaps the defense would force him to stay in and block and he would be eaten up

[transplantbillsfan]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

In fairness Duke's run blocking overall has been pretty decent when he has been on the field despite a couple of whiffs on Sunday. Otherwise I agree with everything you posted above. 

 

I wonder if people actually watch the Bills and really understand what their plan is?

 

The Bills win on defense by not giving up big plays and by making teams put together 8-12 play drives to score. Make one mistake in there and get yourself behind the chains and the Bills defense almost always gets you off the field. That has to be allied with a special teams unit that at the very least holds its own in the field position game. Make teams start drives against you from their 30 at best. If you have a couple of special teams breakdowns that give your opponent, in this case Deshaun Watson and the Texans, starts at midfield it undermines your whole defensive gameplan. 

 

The Bills are not going to risk that for a marginal talent at wide receiver. I still say the route to get Duke active if that is the way they decide to go is at the expense of a tight end. 

 

Actually I think most of us understand the plan, we just think it's a poor one, especially when it comes to the playoffs.

 

Our Special Teams hasn't been great this year. What's the issue with using a defender like one of the Johnsons as a gunner? They're defenders and would be better tacklers.

 

And our defense, while very, very good, is not consistent. They played the Ravens very well but then gave up the long Hurst TD. They were pretty terrible in terms of yards allowed against the Patriots, but were fortunate enough on the 1st drive to get a turnover on what was otherwise a bad play allowed and got a couple other breaks in the game. Eagles game our defense was terrible. First Miami game our defense wasn't all that good. Cleveland game our defense was disappointing. Dallas game began with Zeke running all over us and then the incompetent Jason Garrett abandoned the run game.

 

I understand our coaches' plan--I just don't think it's a good one, especially in an elimination one and done scenario that the playoffs are.

 

Something I heard the hoodie say on one of the NFL 100 shows as a war metaphor in terms of his approach to coaching really stuck with me, and I think it's emblematic of why the Patriots have been so great for so long and why I'm terrified of McDermott's approach... to paraphrase:

 

You can't just dig yourself in a hole and stay there. At some point, you need to attack.

 

McDermott, it seems as a whole, prefers the foxhole. 

Edited January 1, 2020 by transplantbillsfan

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Actually I think most of us understand the plan, we just think it's a poor one, especially when it comes to the playoffs.

 

Our Special Teams hasn't been great this year. What's the issue with using a defender like one of the Johnsons as a gunner? They're defenders and would be better tacklers.

 

And our defense, while very, very good, is not consistent. They played the Ravens very well but then gave up the long Hurst TD. They were pretty terrible in terms of yards allowed against the Patriots, but were fortunate enough on the 1st drive to get a turnover on what was otherwise a bad play allowed and got a couple other breaks in the game. Eagles game our defense was terrible. First Miami game our defense wasn't all that good. Cleveland game our defense was disappointing. Dallas game began with Zeke running all over us and then the incompetent Jason Garrett abandoned the run game.

 

I understand our coaches' plan--I just don't think it's a good one, especially in an elimination one and done scenario that the playoffs are.

 

Something I heard the hoodie say on one of the NFL 100 shows as a war metaphor in terms of his approach to coaching really stuck with me, and I think it's emblematic of why the Patriots have been so great for so long and why I'm terrified of McDermott's approach... to paraphrase:

 

You can't just dig yourself in a hole and stay there. At some point, you need to attack.

 

McDermott, it seems as a whole, prefers the foxhole. 

 

So a few things here. 

 

1) the problem with using a corner as the gunner is we are banged up at corner as it is. 

 

2) the defense has been consistent. It gave up more than 21 points 3 times all season and more than 24 points ONCE. That is a staggering level of consistency. That is how they finished 2nd in ppg and 3rd in yards per game. If you think being consistent means nobody scores on you ever then you are not watching the NFL. The Bills defense was remarkably consistent. 

 

3) you can dislike parts of the plan if you want to you can dislike it all if you so choose but let me tell you what is a bad plan - scrapping everything you have done all year for a playoff game. 

 

4) I don't recognise your description of McDermott's coaching. 

[ExWNYer]

18 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

And you would have gone with...?

 

 

   -OR- 

[MAJBobby]

3 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Who bites it then?  My guy McKittrick?  

I can name some very easy. 
 

let’s start with Senorise Perry

ans end with Lee Smith 

[Freddie's Dead]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

I can name some very easy. 
 

let’s start with Senorise Perry

ans end with Lee Smith

 

I'm down with Sa'Norris or Smith.

[transplantbillsfan]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So a few things here. 

 

1) the problem with using a corner as the gunner is we are banged up at corner as it is. 

 

2) the defense has been consistent. It gave up more than 21 points 3 times all season and more than 24 points ONCE. That is a staggering level of consistency. That is how they finished 2nd in ppg and 3rd in yards per game. If you think being consistent means nobody scores on you ever then you are not watching the NFL. The Bills defense was remarkably consistent. 

 

3) you can dislike parts of the plan if you want to you can dislike it all if you so choose but let me tell you what is a bad plan - scrapping everything you have done all year for a playoff game. 

 

4) I don't recognise your description of McDermott's coaching. 

 

1) Wallace is banged up. He's been disappointing this season. Might be a blessing in disguise. Other than Tre and our 2 Safeties, I think anyone in our secondary is interchangeable. 

 

2) I understand the points argument, but haven't you watched the team? Come on... our defense pretty clearly has some glaring weaknesses, particularly in run support. McDermott has assembled a team that I believe will consistently be in the playoffs, but with his approach we won't be consistent winners in the playoffs unless we see some drastic improvement in a few key positions on our defense in the upcoming years to make the D legitimately Elite. Baltimore and New England have better defenses, yet their approach to the game on offense is still largely to attack.

 

3) Who said scrap everything? Keep playing good defense but be a little more aggressive on offense and give Allen the one big WR on our team on gameday. How is this scrapping everything?

 

4) Okay. See all my commentary previously.

 

5) What charity do you want me to donate $50 to for our bet?

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Freddie's Dead said:

 

I'm down with Sa'Norris or Smith.

there are Players on this team that offer nothing close to what Roberts offers. So the people advocating putting Robert on the Inactive list for Duke Williams really need to know their team. 
 

you don’t put a top 5 KR and top 10 PR on inactive list for a couple catches maybe 50 yards and maybe a TD. 
 

does Duke Williams put 108 up when he is sharing TGTs with Brown, Beasley, Knox and Singletary. People want to use the Jets game as evidence. Good use it how many of those Targets during Jets Game does he get with Brown, Beasley, Singletary and Knox on the Field?

[Scott7975]

scrap it.  Put Duke in there and go 5 wide all game.

[transplantbillsfan]

5 hours ago, Buffalo Junction said:

This why I’m slightly baffled by everyone wanting to pull Foster for Duke instead of pulling McKenzie. Foster has done a pretty good job with those jet sweeps over the last two years when given the opportunity. ?‍♂️

 

McKenzie is better at them. He's much more elusive than Foster with the ball in his hands. Plus he's been used in the short passing game at times.

 

Honestly I thought Foster would prove to be a good NFL WR this year... boy was I wrong. He's a waste of a gameday roster spot.

 

There's no good reason he should be active and Duke should be inactive.

 

Yet, that's what's going to happen.

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

1) Wallace is banged up. He's been disappointing this season. Might be a blessing in disguise. Other than Tre and our 2 Safeties, I think anyone in our secondary is interchangeable. 

 

2) I understand the points argument, but haven't you watched the team? Come on... our defense pretty clearly has some glaring weaknesses, particularly in run support. McDermott has assembled a team that I believe will consistently be in the playoffs, but with his approach we won't be consistent winners in the playoffs unless we see some drastic improvement in a few key positions on our defense in the upcoming years to make the D legitimately Elite. Baltimore and New England have better defenses, yet their approach to the game on offense is still largely to attack.

 

3) Who said scrap everything? Keep playing good defense but be a little more aggressive on offense and give Allen the one big WR on our team on gameday. How is this scrapping everything?

 

4) Okay. See all my commentary previously.

 

5) What charity do you want me to donate $50 to for our bet?

 

I just don't agree that the problem with offense is conservatism. It is execution. I'd argue the Bills have been more aggressive than the Patriots on offense this season. We have among other things thrown more deep balls and attempted more 4th downs. The problem is our offensive execution remains bottom 3rd of the NFL for a variety of reasons but primarily because the talent level there is still somewhere between bottom of the middle 3rd of the league and top of the bottom 3rd. 

 

As for the charity bet - and great credit to for sticking to it @transplantbillsfan - I'd like you to donate it to Alzheimers UK which is a charity here in the UK that helps support and look after those affected by dementia. I have seen first hand two grandparents suffer the horrible decline in their final years that dementia causes. I'm glad our friendly wager can help in some small way. Link is below:

 

https://www.alzheimers.org.uk

8 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

McKenzie is better at them. He's much more elusive than Foster with the ball in his hands. Plus he's been used in the short passing game at times.

 

Honestly I thought Foster would prove to be a good NFL WR this year... boy was I wrong. He's a waste of a gameday roster spot.

 

There's no good reason he should be active and Duke should be inactive.

 

Yet, that's what's going to happen.

 

Yea Foster is as good as McKenzie on those reverse or pop pass plays when they are executed well and catch the defense napping because his long stride speed to the edge is devastating. The reason McKenzie is more effective overall on those plays is his short area quickness. When the defense sniffs one out McKenzie can make that quick cut up field that prevents a 5 yard loss and makes it into a 6 yard gain. That I think is where you would lose with Foster. He doesn't have the same short area quickness to make that cut and get positive yardage if he can see the edge is sealed. 

Edited January 1, 2020 by GunnerBill

[MDH]

I haven’t read the entire thread but Im assuming there are a bunch of posters questioning what Joe B knows? I mean, it happens every time he has a negative take on a player, I assume its the same when he says something they agree with.

[Saxum]

5 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I think the player that should sit for Duke being active is Lee Evans......his snap count has gone down over the course of the season.....he takes too many penalties....he provides virtually NOTHING as a offensive threat.....and as you said Duke also blocks for the run.

 

I have talked to Lee and he has no intention of returning to NFL even if anyone asked if he would play in playoffs.  ?

 

I think the player you meant was Lee Smith.  They both wear (or wore) Bills uniforms at one point and both catch balls but similarity ends there.