Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 4 hours ago, 3rdand12 said: what plays do you call when your players are not executing i wonder? This is a "chicken and egg" question. Great offensive coordinators call plays that their players are capable of executing. So yes, it's fair to point a finger at the players and say "better execution is needed". But when certain tendencies are noted where plays don't work, and certain tendencies where plays work, it's also fair to ask whether plays that worked to the strengths of the players and enabled them to execute were called consistently. It's not as though the Bills have been consistently unable to execute on every play. We aren't the #8 team in the league for rushing yards (#6 for attempts) because we can't execute. Quote at the very least i think Allens and the O line nee the continuity one more season. By then McBeanes should have stabilised the Offense generally speaking. at least the roster side of things Continuity has its good points, but one can't effect change by keeping everything the same. So since Daboll will evidently be the same, and many of the core players will be the same, perhaps a slightly different approach ny Daboll would be appropriate. 2
Nihilarian Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Agreed we should have been giving it to Singletary more. But I really also think load management and his youth may have come into play in that decision. I don't know for sure, obviously. We get more clued in next year. I don't think you watched the Bills all season if you think Daboll's primary prerogative was to run a pass happy offense. To me this is what was most maddening to watch the Bills run all over the Washington Redskins 39 rushes for 122 yards, 2 TDs and passing only 20 times in week 9. Only to watch Dr Jekyll revert to Mr Hyde (Daboll) against the Browns the next week with only 20 rushes and 41 passes! This fed right into the pass rush leader Myles Garrett at that time. Against Denver, who had a top 5 defense against the run in week 12 and the Bills ran it 47 times for 244 yards on them, meanwhile Allen only threw 25 times, 2TDs, in INT for a 92.9 rate. Against Dallas the next week Bills 34 rushes for 124 yards, 1 TD and Allen 25 passes. Allen went 19 of 24 for 231, 1 TD with a rating of 120.7. Brilliant right? Now Baltimore comes to town week 14 and Daboll reverts again by asking Allen to throw 39 times against that cover zero blitz...which, btw, Daboll had no answer for! Allen sacked 6 times with a rating of 62.6. NOW, don't tell me the Ravens were stacking the box or the run game wasn't working, 17 carries for 89 yards a 5.2 YPC avg. I've made mention of this in several threads, the Bills offense in the first series of the second half handed the ball to Singletary SIX straight times for two first downs and Allen ran for another the result of that series was a FG. Then, inexplicably, the Bills go back to the pass, Allen sacked on 3rd down and 10, Punt. This theme over and over the rest of the game. And no, Singletary was not hurt as he had a 38 yard burst off right guard in the fourth quarter and this series ended in a passing TD. Should the Bills have trouble running the ball occasionally Daboll would simply stop calling for runs and go pass happy. Instead of attempting to figure out a way to get the run game working, he gives up on it. Pittsburgh was another game Bills 38 rushes vs 25 passes with a Bills win 17-10. 4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: The Peterman debacle was a mistake, but are you putting that on Daboll? Pretty sure that was McDermott. And even there I don't blame McDermott because I understand the reasoning for wanting Allen on the bench to start the year, I'm still just flabbergasted that we didn't have a better QB on our roster. Benjamin, Zay, and (unfortunately) Foster are useless... whether due to being fat and unmotivated and entitled, unable to catch, or being an apparent head case... can't blame Daboll for those guys. Agreed about Duke. However, Daboll is clearly married to his system, not the talent. The test will be next season how he's adjusted the system to incorporate Duke or whichever WR we get in FA or the draft. In bringing up Peterman starting the season. The kid couldn't make certain throws that were called. Now the Bills OC doesn't see this when most Bills fans do see it? This isn't at all on McD, because if the OC goes to the HC and tells him a player is unacceptable to start, he doesn't/shouldn't start! I also brought up Benjamin because its the OC's responsibility to watch, see and understand what a player can and cannot do in practice. If the guy can't catch for crap he shouldn't be on the field, period! As with Knox, tell him to work with the Juggs until he gets better or he doesn't play. Both Zay Jones and Robert Foster regressed under Daboll and his schemes. You have a QB with the strongest arm in the NFL and yet can't hit a deep ball to save his life in 2019. Yet, was doing better in 2018 with the same players. Foster was injured early the season and yet Allen over threw him and Brown almost every deep throw. If a coach sees that a play isn't working you keep working it until it works to perfection. Frank Gore either hit the wall or was injured later on this season and yet he kept playing, why? This offensive coordinator simply can't recognize what he has in player talent at times and simply can't coach players up to improve for some reason. We see Allen improving because he is working like an animal on his own with a very high level work ethic.Other players who don't have Allen's work ethic fall by the wayside. Bills fans clamoring for WR Duke Williams all season and he finally gets a nod the last two games when clearly he hasn't been practicing with the first team all season. Of course he isn't going to look as special as he is without more practice with the first team. My point here is I think Daboll is very limited in many ways as an OC. Okay, he has some ability to sometimes call a good game and be a little innovative in the passing game. In my view he simply isn't good enough...never has been... and in all probability never will be. The players love him, big deal. They loved Dick Jauron and Chan Gailey too.
transplantbillsfan Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 The Bills are a team full of youth. And we will get younger in the offseason probably, since I believe that Beane is going to use our CAP space more to resign our own guys like Tre and Milano than to go out and make big splashes. Clear we're building through the draft, and there's a young core already in Buffalo. Continuity is a good thing. It's why I also expect McDermott is thinking ahead to the end of next year when Daboll and perhaps Frazier leave for Head Coaching positions (possibly) and might be trying to groom positional coaches beneath them in order to maintain that continuity. 2
GunnerBill Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: In reference to the above tweet re: Baltimore. How stupid do all the people who downgraded Orlando Brown because he had a bad combine feel right now? I stuck to my guns. His tape was late 1st rounder tape. Baltimore has bookend tackles. 1
Coach Tuesday Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 58 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: In reference to the above tweet re: Baltimore. How stupid do all the people who downgraded Orlando Brown because he had a bad combine feel right now? I stuck to my guns. His tape was late 1st rounder tape. Baltimore has bookend tackles. I guess - but he showed up pretty out of shape, he's a bit of a headcase already, and his dad was a MAJOR headcase as Baltimore well knows...
GunnerBill Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 59 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: I guess - but he showed up pretty out of shape, he's a bit of a headcase already, and his dad was a MAJOR headcase as Baltimore well knows... But put him out there on Sunday and he can block.
John from Riverside Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: But put him out there on Sunday and he can block. I think Cody Ford is also going to be a very good player just maybe not at Right Tackle. If he ends up being a dominant OG....it was still a excellent pick
GunnerBill Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I think Cody Ford is also going to be a very good player just maybe not at Right Tackle. If he ends up being a dominant OG....it was still a excellent pick What does Orlando Brown have to do with Cody Ford? They weren't even the same draft class. Edited January 15, 2020 by GunnerBill
Coach Tuesday Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: But put him out there on Sunday and he can block. No question. Just like his dad. A lunatic but he can play. 1
John from Riverside Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: What does Orlando Brown have to do with Cody Ford? They weren't even the same draft class. Ehhh.....sorry....wrong thread
GunnerBill Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 Just now, John from Riverside said: Ehhh.....sorry....wrong thread I also think Ford can still turn out to be an excellent guard for what it worth. The Bills need to move him there and not stubbornly try and persevere with him at tackle. 1
MJS Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I also think Ford can still turn out to be an excellent guard for what it worth. The Bills need to move him there and not stubbornly try and persevere with him at tackle. Well, they didn't really have a RT option since Nseke was hurt so much, and Feliciano was a good RG, so I think RT was the best place for him to get playing time anyway. Now, if we lose a guard in FA, then maybe you move him over.
Solomon Grundy Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: In reference to the above tweet re: Baltimore. How stupid do all the people who downgraded Orlando Brown because he had a bad combine feel right now? I stuck to my guns. His tape was late 1st rounder tape. Baltimore has bookend tackles. The tape don't lie Coach!! 1
GunnerBill Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 12 minutes ago, MJS said: Well, they didn't really have a RT option since Nseke was hurt so much, and Feliciano was a good RG, so I think RT was the best place for him to get playing time anyway. Now, if we lose a guard in FA, then maybe you move him over. I am not against them having played him RT as a rook. I will be against them trying to persist with it in year 2 if they do that.
3rdand12 Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 19 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: This is a "chicken and egg" question. Great offensive coordinators call plays that their players are capable of executing. So yes, it's fair to point a finger at the players and say "better execution is needed". But when certain tendencies are noted where plays don't work, and certain tendencies where plays work, it's also fair to ask whether plays that worked to the strengths of the players and enabled them to execute were called consistently. It's not as though the Bills have been consistently unable to execute on every play. We aren't the #8 team in the league for rushing yards (#6 for attempts) because we can't execute. Continuity has its good points, but one can't effect change by keeping everything the same. So since Daboll will evidently be the same, and many of the core players will be the same, perhaps a slightly different approach ny Daboll would be appropriate. O line and WRs really have one year under Daboll. And it was a hello, glad to meet you year : ). I am happy to get another year from him let them all review the mistakes (and that should keep them busy off season ) and the things they did well, and refocus. In regard to making change or evolving, Daboll has seen quite a few spins on how to run and Offense and I might suggest he has plenty in his toolbox yet. Now whether he can marry that to the players strengths? Well that is what i expect from next season. Nothing less.
3rdand12 Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 40 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I am not against them having played him RT as a rook. I will be against them trying to persist with it in year 2 if they do that. I am sure putting Ford at T meant they knew he was going to need help. (even though he did not always get it) and that is working around a weakness. They absolutely need to fix that this season. Nothing against the Rook : )
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 5 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: I guess - but he showed up pretty out of shape, he's a bit of a headcase already, and his dad was a MAJOR headcase as Baltimore well knows... Orlando Brown Jr is a headcase? How? Seems like an articulate and intelligent guy. The Ravens put him out there to talk to the media on a regular basis.
Dr. Who Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I am not against them having played him RT as a rook. I will be against them trying to persist with it in year 2 if they do that. I hope Conklin is a priority free agent. Move Ford inside.
Coach Tuesday Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Orlando Brown Jr is a headcase? How? Seems like an articulate and intelligent guy. The Ravens put him out there to talk to the media on a regular basis. As was his dad articulate and intelligent. But there is/was an undercurrent of bizarre behavior. Brown Jr. showed up wildly unprepared for the Combine - the biggest job interview of his life - and was widely panned for having one of the worst performances of all-time. He benched pressed 14 times among many other bad testing outcomes, and offered bizarre explanations for it (for example he blamed his bench press weakness on his “breathing routine”). Good player but something is off.
34-78-83 Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 On 1/14/2020 at 7:07 PM, GoBills808 said: Fumble recoveries and turnovers in general are primarily a function of chance- http://www.footballperspective.com/2013-fumble-recovery-data-has-jets-cowboys-at-extremes/ Also- http://harvardsportsanalysis.org/2014/10/how-random-are-turnovers/ They are easily as much a function of playing with risk as they are random chance. Ie. down 2 scores in the 3rd quarter... (gotta start trying some more high risk plays to come back). Also... Up 2 scores at the same time of the game (likely take fewer risks in the passing game and try to run the ball, go down with contact and not over fight for extra yards). Also, even in one on one player matchups, the overmatched guy in terms of talent/skill is going to have more turnovers than the dominant player. More things that I haven't seen addressed yet by analytics. Maybe they are somewhere... just haven't seen.
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