Browns interview Brian Daboll for HC; have interest in pairing with Bills Asst. GM Joe Schoen

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So I should flip a coin and do just as well as your buddy?

Yep pretty much. He is better when it comes to players and really much more accurate in the NFC. But I like listening to him he taught me a ton about values of players 

Edited January 11, 2020 by MAJBobby

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, Putin said:

I think his first year ( success he had ) went to his fat head , no one knows just yet who will have a better career him or Josh BUT at least we know that Josh is a hard worker and I’m glad he’s a Buffalo Bill 

 

I also think that Baker had assumed his own invincibility after years and years of success from Oklahoma to a highly productive rookie year he had no reason to believe that he would keep going upward. But I think mentally he had assumed that if he kept just doing what he had been doing that it would just work out. I think if he gets humbled by this past season that is going to be a good thing for him long term. If the Browns can get a quality coach and improve their O-line and defense I don’t see why Baker couldn’t lead the Browns to a successful season of 9-10 wins. Sometimes players need to be punched in the mouth (metaphorically) in order to combat resting on their own reputation. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

Yep pretty much. He is better when it comes to players and really much more accurate in the NFC. But I like listening to him he taught me a ton about values of players 

 

What's he tell you about the value of Shaq Lawson, Jordan Phillips, and Quinton Spain?

[HOUSE]

Who wouldn't  love to coach in Cleveland? You can hop in the lake anytime...

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What's he tell you about the value of Shaq Lawson, Jordan Phillips, and Quinton Spain?

Shaq he says is around 7-9 AVV

Jordan Phillips 8-9M AVV

Spain 9-11M AVV

[JGMcD2]

4 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I also think that Baker had assumed his own invincibility after years and years of success from Oklahoma to a highly productive rookie year he had no reason to believe that he would keep going upward. But I think mentally he had assumed that if he kept just doing what he had been doing that it would just work out. I think if he gets humbled by this past season that is going to be a good thing for him long term. If the Browns can get a quality coach and improve their O-line and defense I don’t see why Baker couldn’t lead the Browns to a successful season of 9-10 wins. Sometimes players need to be punched in the mouth (metaphorically) in order to combat resting on their own reputation. 

I can attest to this. A good friend of mine is related to a Browns player. 
 

He said that Baker did not put much time into video, studying the playbook, etc. 

 

They player had been with other organizations prior and said that he did not work on those aspects like other QBs he had been around in the past. 
 

Maybe Baker changes that... but I’ve never heard anyone say Josh doesn’t work hard. Things like this are slowly but surely confirming to me that we made the the right decision with our QB. 

[ctk232]

23 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What about the thought that it's harder to sell PA or a screen game with a run-threat QB?

 

 

At the end of the 3Q, the Bills lead was 16-8.  Of ~49 offensive plays, run/pass balance was 26 pass plays/23 rush plays

 

You write this as though the Bills went totally pass-happy at a point where we had a 16 point lead, but in fact it was a very balanced attack through the end of the 3Q.  3Q was 7 rush plays, 5 pass plays.

 

The play selection became pass-heavy in the 4Q and particularly in OT, at which point of course we were trying to tie the game and then win it.

 

 

 

Wholly agree, but in relation to the OT gameplan exclusively, that was the piece of it all that I just couldn't understand.

 

After getting a stop on the Texan's opening drive in OT - I'll never get why we didn't bring back the run with Singletary to be the primary offensive attack, or at least complement the pass with it more so. The durability concerns should have been out of the question at that point, and the kid was having an all-pro game - especially with his YAC. There were no prior injury scares in the game, and in the playoffs there's no excuse to not have your RB1, performing the way he was on Saturday, not be featured in your OT offense.

 

Given that there had to be a winner, the clock wasn't even a consideration so there was no need to have a pass heavy attack (almost exclusively), the entirety of OT. This clearly wasn't the reason we lost the game, but the personnel and game plan decisions entering a "sudden" death overtime were beyond questionable. We only needed a FG to win and ~40 yards of offense to get it - there's no reason to abandon the run the way we did with that goal in mind.

 

I wouldn't attribute this to McD, and I believe the conservative/defensive-minded coach criticism and trope to be tired and baseless - but whether it be McD, Daboll, or some combination of the two, I'm beyond curious who decided to approach that situation in OT the way we did.

 

Edit to bring it back to the main discourse of this thread - as much as I'm left distraught regarding the above OT gameplan, I'd still rather see Daboll return and Allen continue to develop within the system he's learned thus far. What I'd like to see, however, is improvement to in-game response to adapting the scheme/gameplan and Josh improving within the system; something to indicate that both Allen and the offensive scheme are working in unison and not in conflict like we saw at times this season. Given what's come out since the game, I'm hopeful that this happens.

Edited January 11, 2020 by ctk232

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

Shaq he says is around 7-9 AVV

Jordan Phillips 8-9M AVV

Spain 9-11M AVV

 

Woaoa, I would have put Shaq higher than Phillips! 

And I would not have put Spain that high

 

Very interesting

[billsfan89]

1 minute ago, JGMcD2 said:

I can attest to this. A good friend of mine is related to a Browns player. 
 

He said that Baker did not put much time into video, studying the playbook, etc. 

 

They player had been with other organizations prior and said that he did not work on those aspects like other QBs he had been around in the past. 
 

Maybe Baker changes that... but I’ve never heard anyone say Josh doesn’t work hard. Things like this are slowly but surely confirming to me that we made the the right decision with our QB. 

 

It's weird because Baker seems like such a competitive guy that you would think he would just keep working to be better. Character was never much of an issue in terms of work ethic when he was coming into the league. But everyone can get high on their own supply I guess. Hopefully the wake up call sticks and he gets some good coaching. It would be nice for the AFC North to have 3 top teams beating up on each other. 

[MAJBobby]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Woaoa, I would have put Shaq higher than Phillips! 

And I would not have put Spain that high

 

Very interesting

He said there is going to be a trend that DTs that can get pressure are going to be higher Value than DEs. Because of the way the game is changing with Quick Passing and the fastest way to get to QB is a straight line. 
 

also said he knows his team has Schreff and Spain ranked equally. 
 

he gives me some really cool tidbits I would have never thought about 

Edited January 11, 2020 by MAJBobby

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, ctk232 said:

Wholly agree, but in relation to the OT gameplan exclusively, that was the piece of it all that I just couldn't understand.

 

After getting a stop on the Texan's opening drive in OT - I'll never get why we didn't bring back the run with Singletary to be the primary offensive attack, or at least complement the pass with it more so. The durability concerns should have been out of the question at that point, and the kid was having an all-pro game - especially with his YAC. There were no prior injury scares in the game, and in the playoffs there's no excuse to not have your RB1, performing the way he was on Sunday, not be featured in your OT offense.

 

Given that there had to be a winner, the clock wasn't even a consideration so there was no need to have a pass heavy attack (almost exclusively), the entirety of OT. This clearly wasn't the reason we lost the game, but the personnel and game plan decisions entering a "sudden" death overtime were beyond questionable. We only need a FG to win and ~40 yards of offense to get it - there's no reason to abandon the run the way we did with that goal in mind.

 

I wouldn't attribute this to McD, and I believe the conservative/defensive-minded coach criticism and trope to be tired and baseless - but whether it be McD, Daboll, or some combination of the two, I'm beyond curious who decided to approach that situation in OT the way we did.

 

Completely agree.

 

I also kind of feel like the Bills team needs a sort of "break glass in case of emergency" plan for the players to give Josh a talkin-to when Allen shows signs of trying to load all 45 guys on his back again.  Not sure what that plan would be I'm sure the guys can figure something out.  It should involve someone chanting at him "take what they give you!  take what they give you!"

[JGMcD2]

4 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

It's weird because Baker seems like such a competitive guy that you would think he would just keep working to be better. Character was never much of an issue in terms of work ethic when he was coming into the league. But everyone can get high on their own supply I guess. Hopefully the wake up call sticks and he gets some good coaching. It would be nice for the AFC North to have 3 top teams beating up on each other. 

I thought so too! A former walk-on and what not. Always told he wasn’t good enough you’d think he wouldn’t be like that. 
 

Apparently he just thought he could coast by based on last year and the addition of Odell. He legitimately bought into all of the media hype.

 

Thats what this player said as well... Kitchens bought in and didn’t keep things under control there. They loved him and the hype but the second things went wrong the players threw him under the bus.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

He said there is going to be a trend that DTs that can get pressure are going to be higher Value than DEs. Because of the way the game is changing with Quick Passing and the fastest way to get to QB is a straight line. 
 

also said he knows his team has Schreff and Spain ranked equally. 
 

he gives me some really cool tidbits I would have never thought about 

 

Very Interesting.

 

I personally wish the Bills would keep Phillips AND Shaq.  I don't think $9 AAV is too much.

 

Spain I'm a bit more ambivalent about.

[Chaos]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Very Interesting.

 

I personally wish the Bills would keep Phillips AND Shaq.  I don't think $9 AAV is too much.

 

Spain I'm a bit more ambivalent about.

Spain is on the wrong side of the ball. He had the best tackle in the game against the Texans. 

[ctk232]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Completely agree.

 

I also kind of feel like the Bills team needs a sort of "break glass in case of emergency" plan for when Allen shows signs of trying to load all 45 guys on his back again

Not sure what that plan would be I'm sure the guys can figure something out.

Word - I'd love to be a fly on the wall with the in-game communication b/t Daboll and Allen for one, but also to hear what McD might be saying and when. Especially in relation to those "break the glass" moments like you mention. 

 

There were ample opportunities, in my mind, during OT where we could've taken a timeout, assessed the situation, and interjected more of the run game with Singletary. Either within Allen himself or from McD or Daboll, there was no reason to let Allen attempt to carry everyone, and just settle him down. From those last few 4Q drives and into OT, he was playing like he had something to prove to everyone, and like he had to win the game on the next play. The pressure will always be there for Allen and the coaches, but it felt like all we needed was a timeout to gather ourselves and approach this like a new game. But man I'd love to hear the headset conversations for those last few drives.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

It's weird because Baker seems like such a competitive guy that you would think he would just keep working to be better. Character was never much of an issue in terms of work ethic when he was coming into the league. But everyone can get high on their own supply I guess. Hopefully the wake up call sticks and he gets some good coaching. It would be nice for the AFC North to have 3 top teams beating up on each other. 

 

I think that's the difference between someone who is internally motivated, and someone who is externally motivated.

 

Someone who is internally motivated has their own internal yardstick for who what and where they want to be.  They're constantly looking at their performance through that lens and striving to be better.  I think Josh is internally motivated - whether the press says he is good, or whether the press says he is bad, he's asking "am I where I want to be?  No? work harder."

 

I think Baker is externally motivated.  He fought like a small wildcat while people were dissing him off.  "Oh yeah?  I'll Show YOU!".  But once he became the #1 pick and had hype and endorsement deals and maybe felt annointed, I can see that might become "OK, I am what you say now"

 

Maybe I'm not verbalizing it well.

 

 

[billsfan89]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think that's the difference between someone who is internally motivated, and someone who is externally motivated.

 

Someone who is internally motivated has their own internal yardstick for who what and where they want to be.  They're constantly looking at their performance through that lens and striving to be better.  I think Josh is internally motivated - whether the press says he is good, or whether the press says he is bad, he's asking "am I where I want to be?  No? work harder."

 

I think Baker is externally motivated.  He fought like a small wildcat while people were dissing him off.  "Oh yeah?  I'll Show YOU!".  But once he became the #1 pick and had hype and endorsement deals and maybe felt annointed, I can see that might become "OK, I am what you say now"

 

Maybe I'm not verbalizing it well.

 

 

 

That makes sense, if you are driven by "me against the world" then suddenly when the world is on your side you lose your edge. I hope he realizes that you have to keep grinding on it if you want to be great. 

[LSHMEAB]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Very Interesting.

 

I personally wish the Bills would keep Phillips AND Shaq.  I don't think $9 AAV is too much.

 

Spain I'm a bit more ambivalent about.

I'm not paying Spain or J Phillips 9 mil/yr if I'm Beane, but I don't believe those numbers will match their respective contracts; Phillips may be viewed as a one year wonder and Spain sat on the market forever last offseason. His play wasn't exactly "inspiring." I'd personally prefer a better run blocker at the LG spot, so bye bye at 9 mil per.

 

I AM paying Shaq 7-9 mil per, but I believe he will get offers considerably higher.

 

Easy pass on Spain, but much tougher decision on J Phillips. From the sound of Beane's PC, I don't expect them to give Phillips a big deal. Not a fan of Star's 10 mil per, but that's a seperate convo I suppose.

Edited January 11, 2020 by LSHMEAB

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, ctk232 said:

Word - I'd love to be a fly on the wall with the in-game communication b/t Daboll and Allen for one, but also to hear what McD might be saying and when. Especially in relation to those "break the glass" moments like you mention. 

 

There were ample opportunities, in my mind, during OT where we could've taken a timeout, assessed the situation, and interjected more of the run game with Singletary. Either within Allen himself or from McD or Daboll, there was no reason to let Allen attempt to carry everyone, and just settle him down. From those last few 4Q drives and into OT, he was playing like he had something to prove to everyone, and like he had to win the game on the next play. The pressure will always be there for Allen and the coaches, but it felt like all we needed was a timeout to gather ourselves and approach this like a new game. But man I'd love to hear the headset conversations for those last few drives.

 

Agree - some kind of plan where as soon as Josh pulls what looks like a hero-ball stunt, call a timeout if need be, get everyone around, and have one of the vet guys who is playing say "Look, we got this.  All 11 of us - TEAM!  Deep breath, take what they give us, and Let's Go!"

 

I'm not sure it can come from a coach in those moments.  I think it might have to come from someone who is out there getting bruised and sweating with you.

[Nihilarian]

37 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What about the thought that it's harder to sell PA or a screen game with a run-threat QB?

The thing is, for Josh Allen to last in this league you don't want him to be a Lamar Jackson or Cam Newton. For the Vikings everything works off that power zone play action scheme.

 

"The Vikings do an excellent job of disguising play-action, making it almost impossible for the defense to tell until the last moment."

 

https://whodatdish.com/2020/01/03/new-orleans-saints-breaking-down-vikings/