Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 10, 2020 Posted January 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: He did admit it - they talked about it endlessly for weeks ??? 1 minute ago, Warcodered said: Plus he's squatting in their stadium. Yeah, sponsorships and commercials are great $$ I think, but I hope Josh Allen doesn't go that route too soon even if he gets offers. It can cast a guy and a team in a bad light if things don't work as well as planned.
Putin Posted January 10, 2020 Posted January 10, 2020 16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Wow, I don't really want to be cast as a Baker apologist. Did he really admit "not working very hard"? I know he did say he wouldn't be hiring a private QB coach, I thought he was kind of snarky and maybe taking a bit of a shot at Allen, Darnold and Kyle Allen and their beach-house-Jordan-Palmer plan " I would not say that I will go on the beach and swim through the ocean and try and learn how to play quarterback by doing that." (of course, the swim through the ocean is not the "better QB" part of their plan) As far as the rest.....Browns beat Baltimore in a good game and had a strong game against Pittsburgh. He had a pretty good game against us I thought. 3 good Ds. Close game against Seattle. He certainly had up and down play this year and yes, bad statistically, but I thought he showed some good play last year and this, just very inconsistent behind an inconsistent OL (something we've seen from our guy, actually) I think his first year ( success he had ) went to his fat head , no one knows just yet who will have a better career him or Josh BUT at least we know that Josh is a hard worker and I’m glad he’s a Buffalo Bill
ExWNYer Posted January 10, 2020 Posted January 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: ??? Yeah, sponsorships and commercials are great $$ I think, but I hope Josh Allen doesn't go that route too soon even if he gets offers. It can cast a guy and a team in a bad light if things don't work as well as planned. Probably not too much to worry about there. I don't think that Josh's wholesome 'golly gee' persona is what sells currently. Mayfield has just the right amount of arrogance and douchiness that plays well on Madison Avenue.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 10, 2020 Posted January 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Putin said: I think his [Baker's] first year ( success he had ) went to his fat head , no one knows just yet who will have a better career him or Josh BUT at least we know that Josh is a hard worker and I’m glad he’s a Buffalo Bill So when McDermott said in one of his pressers "some QB think they'll be better their second year just because it's they're second year; Josh Allen works his butt off", was that a little snipe at Baker?
Alphadawg7 Posted January 10, 2020 Posted January 10, 2020 2 hours ago, MDH said: Yeah, these are both good points. The way I see it is this. A lot of OCs in recent times have altered schemes and tailor made the to hide their young QB's faults and accentuate their strengths. This enables the QB to experience success earlier than they normally would. I think this is fan's biggest problem with Daboll, he hasn't done this with Josh. I might be the only one, but I prefer it the way Daboll has done it, at least for this team. We've seen too many times a young QB comes in and the OC protects him and he's pretty good the first few years and then bam, he hits a wall and never develops much further. Particularly with running QBs. Daboll hasn't simplified anything, he makes Josh get to the LoS, look at the D, make the OL adjustments and alter the play and then drop back and run a, mostly, pro style offense from the pocket. Occasionally he'll mix in some running plays for Allen (usually in the red zone) but for the most part he has taken the training wheels off and let Allen sink or swim, like an old school OC used to do with their QBs, which is why it used to take QBs 3-5 years to develop. The Bills knew that their window for the SB wasn't in Allen's first two years, so why not teach the kid how to play honest to goodness QB in the NFL right off the bat. Particularly with a kid that's so raw and hasn't had any real coaching thus far in his QB career. Not only that, he's doing it with a multiple scheme where Allen can't get comfortable with a base set. It changes game to game. I'll admit, it's not the way to win games immediately but it's the best way to prepare your QB for the future. Yet just when that future is about to get here we change OC's? Ugh, that's the last thing I want to do at this point. Go back and look at Allen's Wyoming tape. He was a totally different QB. They have molded this kid these past two years into a reasonable starter and I believe if they stay the course he has a chance to become a good to very good QB. if they change OCs and Allen back slides next year Josh might not get a 4th season in Buffalo, who knows. Again, Daboll isn't perfect and he has his flaws. He sometimes let's the game get away from him and they're a tad conservative in certain situations for my taste. But overall I think he's been a good instructor for Allen and a big reason he's made the strides he has. Good counter post. And I do agree that overall they have done a good job with Josh. My biggest issue with Daboll is his inconsistency in game in how he is play calling. Never seen a team that can look like two totally different offenses in the same game at different points of the game so much. I just wish Daboll would focus on situational awareness and building rhythm out there. Comes across as he is trying to hard to look like a genius and its back firing too much. If Daboll just was more consistently strong at calling the offense through the game then I would have no issues with him. The frequency he gets stupid out there is concerning. I am not sure I will ever get over the Gore draw at the end of the half against Houston. Might be the dumbest call I can remember seeing on the entire season at a key moment in a game. 1
Chaos Posted January 10, 2020 Posted January 10, 2020 2 hours ago, MDH said: Yeah, these are both good points. The way I see it is this. A lot of OCs in recent times have altered schemes and tailor made the to hide their young QB's faults and accentuate their strengths. This enables the QB to experience success earlier than they normally would. I think this is fan's biggest problem with Daboll, he hasn't done this with Josh. I might be the only one, but I prefer it the way Daboll has done it, at least for this team. We've seen too many times a young QB comes in and the OC protects him and he's pretty good the first few years and then bam, he hits a wall and never develops much further. Particularly with running QBs. Daboll hasn't simplified anything, he makes Josh get to the LoS, look at the D, make the OL adjustments and alter the play and then drop back and run a, mostly, pro style offense from the pocket. Occasionally he'll mix in some running plays for Allen (usually in the red zone) but for the most part he has taken the training wheels off and let Allen sink or swim, like an old school OC used to do with their QBs, which is why it used to take QBs 3-5 years to develop. The Bills knew that their window for the SB wasn't in Allen's first two years, so why not teach the kid how to play honest to goodness QB in the NFL right off the bat. Particularly with a kid that's so raw and hasn't had any real coaching thus far in his QB career. Not only that, he's doing it with a multiple scheme where Allen can't get comfortable with a base set. It changes game to game. I'll admit, it's not the way to win games immediately but it's the best way to prepare your QB for the future. Yet just when that future is about to get here we change OC's? Ugh, that's the last thing I want to do at this point. Go back and look at Allen's Wyoming tape. He was a totally different QB. They have molded this kid these past two years into a reasonable starter and I believe if they stay the course he has a chance to become a good to very good QB. if they change OCs and Allen back slides next year Josh might not get a 4th season in Buffalo, who knows. Again, Daboll isn't perfect and he has his flaws. He sometimes let's the game get away from him and they're a tad conservative in certain situations for my taste. But overall I think he's been a good instructor for Allen and a big reason he's made the strides he has. Can you provide the names of these young QBs with lots of early success that then fail. And also give some examples of the QBs who only really develop in year 5? I think these are myths like bigfoot.
LABILLBACKER Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 39 minutes ago, Putin said: I think his first year ( success he had ) went to his fat head , no one knows just yet who will have a better career him or Josh BUT at least we know that Josh is a hard worker and I’m glad he’s a Buffalo Bill Baker Manziel....like we're surprised. 1
Putin Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 42 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: So when McDermott said in one of his pressers "some QB think they'll be better their second year just because it's they're second year; Josh Allen works his butt off", was that a little snipe at Baker? Sure sounds like it
Nihilarian Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I am so torn if I want to hear Daboll was offered the job, or if I should be sad if Daboll was offered the job. I'm not torn, as I'd be ecstatic if he took the Cleveland HCing job! Shoot, as smart as he is he might actually do a good job there as HC, as long as he isn't calling the plays. What most Bills fans fail to realize is that this QB is NOT a Peyton Manning type who attended a big time college program (Tennessee)and was developed in that program. So throwing him into the NFL fire over and over is exactly what he needed to further develop into greatness. Allen basically needed to go begging to even get into a college scholarship and only one college in the entire country accepted him. That school was Wyoming and exactly how many big time NFL QBs have come from that college...none! Wanna know how many 1st round picks besides Josh Allen have come from that college since 1947? RB Lawrence Gains in 1976, Detroit, DB Arron Kyle 1976, Dallas. DT Ron Billingsley 1967. Yeah, that's it, three...and no other QB from that big time "Mountain West Conference." Wanna know how many times the Wyoming Cowboys have come in first place since 1999? Never! Josh Allen was a noted raw, developmental project at QB coming into the NFL, with a heart as big as the Wyoming sky with a burning desire to win. The problem as I see it is that Allen can be ruined by some overzealous OC in his desire to prove that "he" can be great. Over the years I've seen so very many really good college QBs ruined on bad offenses with bad OCs! Brian Daboll has never been good as an OC in building a good passing offense, ever! Four different NFL teams in six seasons and never had a better than 22nd passing offense and that was with Matt Moore in Miami. Daboll has never developed any young, inexperienced QB. Why do people think he will be able to magically do that now? If anything, Josh Allen is making Daboll look half way decent. What Allen needs is a ball control, run first, play action passing offense that will allow him to learn and grow as he develops without getting his confidence destroyed along the way. The Vikings power zone play action scheme under Kevin Stephanski would be a great scheme to develop Josh in. The Buffalo Bills under defensive minded Sean McDermott would appear to be the perfect fit for Allen as the Erhardt-Perkins offensive philosophy is supposed to be a ball control run first with play action scheme. With Daboll as OC that only gets utilized about half the time and in some games he literally goes passing crazy. Having Allen throw 48 times in that Texans game was utterly moronic. Especially considering the Bills had a 16 point lead and should have been pounding the rock with Singletary to control the clock. 1
GunnerBill Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 2 hours ago, MDH said: Yeah, these are both good points. The way I see it is this. A lot of OCs in recent times have altered schemes and tailor made the to hide their young QB's faults and accentuate their strengths. This enables the QB to experience success earlier than they normally would. I think this is fan's biggest problem with Daboll, he hasn't done this with Josh. I might be the only one, but I prefer it the way Daboll has done it, at least for this team. We've seen too many times a young QB comes in and the OC protects him and he's pretty good the first few years and then bam, he hits a wall and never develops much further. Particularly with running QBs. Daboll hasn't simplified anything, he makes Josh get to the LoS, look at the D, make the OL adjustments and alter the play and then drop back and run a, mostly, pro style offense from the pocket. Occasionally he'll mix in some running plays for Allen (usually in the red zone) but for the most part he has taken the training wheels off and let Allen sink or swim, like an old school OC used to do with their QBs, which is why it used to take QBs 3-5 years to develop. The Bills knew that their window for the SB wasn't in Allen's first two years, so why not teach the kid how to play honest to goodness QB in the NFL right off the bat. Particularly with a kid that's so raw and hasn't had any real coaching thus far in his QB career. Not only that, he's doing it with a multiple scheme where Allen can't get comfortable with a base set. It changes game to game. I'll admit, it's not the way to win games immediately but it's the best way to prepare your QB for the future. Yet just when that future is about to get here we change OC's? Ugh, that's the last thing I want to do at this point. Go back and look at Allen's Wyoming tape. He was a totally different QB. They have molded this kid these past two years into a reasonable starter and I believe if they stay the course he has a chance to become a good to very good QB. if they change OCs and Allen back slides next year Josh might not get a 4th season in Buffalo, who knows. Again, Daboll isn't perfect and he has his flaws. He sometimes let's the game get away from him and they're a tad conservative in certain situations for my taste. But overall I think he's been a good instructor for Allen and a big reason he's made the strides he has. You are not the only one. It is the way I feel too. I think giving Josh Allen every possible chance to be great is more important than winning a game or two extra. That might be the ultimate long termist view, I know, and I get that. I also do understand those who question the run / pass balance in the 2nd half on Saturday because once you are in the dance you should have a go at trying to win it. But overall over the course of the season I did not want Josh hidden. The run the ball more and play defense crowd might think that helps Josh but I don't believe it does. Have we put a lot on him at times? Yes. But I wouldn't want it any other way. We took the kid 7th overall to be our Quarterback. Let the kid be a Quarterback. I have consistently said I don't want to coach the hero ball out of him either. In the long term I want a QB who makes the risky plays. I see it on this board so often about other QBs "oh Mahomes / Watson are just throwing 50/50 jump balls." Good. Sometimes I want my QB to try and make that play. And if it gets picked off so be it. Josh could be great. Screw the play it safe, run the ball a million times and play defense strategy. I get that if you expose him there is a chance Josh fails. But you miss every shot you never take in life. No risk it. No biscuit. 2
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 27 minutes ago, Nihilarian said: If anything, Josh Allen is making Daboll look half way decent. What Allen needs is a ball control, run first, play action passing offense that will allow him to learn and grow as he develops without getting his confidence destroyed along the way. The Vikings power zone play action scheme under Kevin Stephanski would be a great scheme to develop Josh in. What about the thought that it's harder to sell PA or a screen game with a run-threat QB? Quote The Buffalo Bills under defensive minded Sean McDermott would appear to be the perfect fit for Allen as the Erhardt-Perkins offensive philosophy is supposed to be a ball control run first with play action scheme. With Daboll as OC that only gets utilized about half the time and in some games he literally goes passing crazy. Having Allen throw 48 times in that Texans game was utterly moronic. Especially considering the Bills had a 16 point lead and should have been pounding the rock with Singletary to control the clock. At the end of the 3Q, the Bills lead was 16-8. Of ~49 offensive plays, run/pass balance was 26 pass plays/23 rush plays You write this as though the Bills went totally pass-happy at a point where we had a 16 point lead, but in fact it was a very balanced attack through the end of the 3Q. 3Q was 7 rush plays, 5 pass plays. The play selection became pass-heavy in the 4Q and particularly in OT, at which point of course we were trying to tie the game and then win it. 1
JaCrispy Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 Well, Bills fans...you’re about to get your wish...
Bangarang Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 1 minute ago, JaCrispy said: Well, Bills fans...you’re about to get your wish... Which is?
JaCrispy Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Bangarang said: Which is? Most Bills fans on TBD seem to want Daboll on a midnight train outta town...Idk, I would hate starting over at OC... Edited January 11, 2020 by JaCrispy
Bangarang Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 Just now, JaCrispy said: Most Bills fans on TBD seem to want Daboll on a midnight train outta town...Idk, I would hate starting over at OC... Ah
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 Just now, JaCrispy said: Most Bills fans on TBD seem to want Daboll on a midnight train outta town... If you have news, please give it and source.
MAJBobby Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: If you have news, please give it and source. I have a buddy that works for a team (not Bills). he just texted me and said I have heard you guys are going to need a new OC. he has been about 50% on stuff he has given me over the years.
Beast Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Most Bills fans on TBD seem to want Daboll on a midnight train outta town... I don’t. I’d rather get better in the offensive system that we are in. If people think McDermott is going to bring in some edgy OC, they are out of their mind.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 Just now, MAJBobby said: I have a buddy that works for a team (not Bills). he just texted me and said I have heard you guys are going to need a new OC. he has been about 50% on stuff he has given me over the years. So I should flip a coin and do just as well as your buddy?
Recommended Posts