london_bills Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) The first plays against the texans were scripted purely from Daboll and execution was perfect. Although there are issues, I think some caution should be exercised when wanting Daboll gone. Some more plays made by the players and he is looked at it greater esteem, although offensive execution falls on him. I think him gone will answer the question of allen faster though. Edited January 6, 2020 by london_bills
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 Just now, london_bills said: The first plays against the texans were scripted purely frolm Daboll and execution was perfect. Although there are issues, I think some caution should be exercised when wanting Daboll gone. Some more plays made by the players and he is looked at it greater esteem, although offensive execution falls on him. I think him gone will answer the question of allen faster though. OK, so you liked the scripted playcalls. How about all the other playcalls, like abandoning the run in the clutch, despite Singletary tearing off 5 yards a clip? Dude has GOT to go. 1
london_bills Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: OK, so you liked the scripted playcalls. How about all the other playcalls, like abandoning the run in the clutch, despite Singletary tearing off 5 yards a clip? Dude has GOT to go. I would certainly not say got to go. Like I said there are issues, but a part of me cannot understand why Allen is given more weapons but Daboll is not. In a way it would be refreshing to make a change but I stand by what I said. It smells a little bit of wanting a head to roll. Edited January 6, 2020 by london_bills
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 It's hard to get a read on Daboll, he has done positive things developing Allen. Talent wise this team offensively is still bottom 3rd of the NFL. When I watch replays of the game guys are getting open on the plays Daboll is calling but Allen is just not seeing them. As of right now I guess I would be neutral if Daboll left.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 7 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Let's work out those feelings. Frustration? Depression? Flummoxation? I can tell you my feelings about Daboll: Annoyance. Mainly because he just loves to abandon whatever's working at the moment. See my edit asking you to explain the Cooter love. Feelings about Daboll: Ambivalence. I see him do very sound, very clever play design. Yea! That opening sequence against the Texans was great. But he can't seem to sustain it throughout a game. I see him seemingly pay absolutely no attention to what I see as a cardinal principle of offensive play calling: put your best players in the best position to exploit the opponents' weakness, which is why we wind up with Dimarco and Smith out wide or with Knox blocking Judon, or with slow developing routes against a blitz-heavy defensive attack. He's all about exploiting the opponent's weakness, and he does take them at fault and exploit them at times, but he seems to regard every guy on the roster as an FRU (field replaceable unit) who can do just as much as everyone else. I don't feel he puts Allen into positions to succeed: he seems to put him in positions that activate his "Hero Ball" tendencies. And he doesn't seem to call games that make sense. It's like he can design a beautifully crafted set of puzzle pieces and can't figure out how to put them together in a way that works. Unfortunately I don't know enough about football to articulate what I see in technical terms. 2 minutes ago, london_bills said: I would certainly not say got to go. Like I said there are issues, but a part of me cannot understand why Allen is given more weapons but Daboll is not. In a way it would be refreshing to make a change but I stand by what I said. It smells a little bit of wanting a head to roll. I do not understand this sentence. Explain please 1 1
london_bills Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 Just now, Call_Of_Ktulu said: It's hard to get a read on Daboll, he has done positive things developing Allen. Talent wise this team offensively is still bottom 3rd of the NFL. When I watch replays of the game guys are getting open on the plays Daboll is calling but Allen is just not seeing them. As of right now I guess I would be neutral if Daboll left. This is what I see aswell.
davefan66 Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: It's hard to get a read on Daboll, he has done positive things developing Allen. Talent wise this team offensively is still bottom 3rd of the NFL. When I watch replays of the game guys are getting open on the plays Daboll is calling but Allen is just not seeing them. As of right now I guess I would be neutral if Daboll left. I don’t think Daboll is the issue. Yeah, calls a few plays that are head scratchers. Josh needs stability, and don’t want to see him go.
ogham26 Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: It's hard to get a read on Daboll, he has done positive things developing Allen. Talent wise this team offensively is still bottom 3rd of the NFL. When I watch replays of the game guys are getting open on the plays Daboll is calling but Allen is just not seeing them. As of right now I guess I would be neutral if Daboll left. so many plays in the playoff game that were good calls and if the players just execute we win the game...Duke catches it in the endzone. Knox/morse pick up the defender on the qb sweep and that's game over. John brown gets his feet down instead of jumping out of bounds. Plenty more honestly. Daboll is fine. would prefer allen to not have to learn a new system this off season. 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: And he doesn't seem to call games that make sense. It's like he can design a beautifully crafted set of puzzle pieces and can't figure out how to put them together in a way that works. Unfortunately I don't know enough about football to articulate what I see in technical terms. That's actually a pretty good description, yes. He's a masterful designer of plays, I'll give him that. It's just he doesn't understand how and when to USE the plays he's designed. He's like half an OC. As far as Cooter goes, remember: this coaching staff was hired the year after Cooter's Detroit offense lit up the league with passing. At that point in time, I was so sick of the Tyrod offense, I was willing to go that direction. I think the reasons for his failings in the run game both in Detroit and NYJ come down to personnel, especially on the OL. 2
london_bills Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: See my edit asking you to explain the Cooter love. Feelings about Daboll: Ambivalence. I see him do very sound, very clever play design. Yea! I see him seemingly pay absolutely no attention to what I see as a cardinal principle of offensive play calling: put your best players in the best position to exploit the opponents' weakness, which is why we wind up with Dimarco and Smith out wide or with Knox blocking Judon, or with slow developing routes against a blitz-heavy defensive attack. He's all about exploiting the opponent's weakness, and he does take them at fault and exploit them at times, but he seems to regard every guy on the roster as an FRU (field replaceable unit) who can do just as much as everyone else. I don't feel he puts Allen into positions to succeed: he seems to put him in positions that activate his "Hero Ball" tendencies. And he doesn't seem to call games that make sense. It's like he can design a beautifully crafted set of puzzle pieces and can't figure out how to put them together in a way that works. Unfortunately I don't know enough about football to articulate what I see in technical terms. I do not understand this sentence. Explain please I am addressing the 'Allen needs better weapons, Daboll should go narrative.' Allen is here to stay and will be given more weapons next season. Although Allen has missed some things on the field, the concensus is that the talent around him is not great. WR recievers drops, o line mistakes etc. A stud WR and a better o line will put into place for Allen to succeed. This lack of talent has effected Daboll also. Why is dabolls effeciency not going to improve if given another season with better talent? 1
Cheektowaga Chad Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 I'm also in the group of if daboll gets a head job good for him, if he is the bills offensive coordinator still also good for him. He isnt the problem right now but I wouldn't be sad or upset if he leaves 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: That's actually a pretty good description, yes. He's a masterful designer of plays, I'll give him that. It's just he doesn't understand how and when to USE the plays he's designed. He's like half an OC. As far as Cooter goes, remember: this coaching staff was hired the year after Cooter's Detroit offense lit up the league with passing. At that point in time, I was so sick of the Tyrod offense, I was willing to go that direction. I think the reasons for his failings in the run game both in Detroit and NYJ come down to personnel, especially on the OL. So you want Jim Bob Cooter because he managed to light up the league passing with a big-armed former #1 draft pick who had a 5000 yd season, a 4900 yd season, and too more >4200 yd seasons with a pro-bowl appearance BEFORE Cooter took over? Erm, that makes sense. I want an OC who has shown some prior ability to spin straw into gold. The best I can say about Cooter is that he managed to take 0.825 silver and buff it some.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I want an OC who has shown some prior ability to spin straw into gold. And you think a filthy rotten Shula is the guy to do that job? I get Shurmur. Shula not so much.
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Cheektowaga Chad said: I'm also in the group of if daboll gets a head job good for him, if he is the bills offensive coordinator still also good for him. He isnt the problem right now but I wouldn't be sad or upset if he leaves ^^This. 2 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, london_bills said: I am addressing the 'Allen needs better weapons, Daboll should go narrative.' Allen is here to stay and will be given more weapons next season. Although Allen has missed some things on the field, the concensus is that the talent around him is not great. WR recievers drops, o line mistakes etc. A stud WR and a better o line will put into place for Allen to succeed. This lack of talent has effected Daboll also. Why is dabolls effeciency not going to improve if given another season with better talent? Thanks for the explanation, I understand you now. What you say is the reason why I'm ambivalent about Daboll. He does design and call us into plays where we fail to execute. So better execution by better players would indeed make him look better. What bothers me is that he does seem to move away from things that are working, or to use personnel packages that are intended to be clever or fool the opponent instead of just putting the best guys for the play on the field, even when we have better guys for that play call. If he won't put the best talent we have to the best use now, will he change and do that with better talent? Secondary concern is all the players talking about how complex his plays are and when we ran no-huddle, how much time they had to spend memorizing. KISS has its place for a young offense. 1
london_bills Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Thanks for the explanation, I understand you now. What you say is the reason why I'm ambivalent about Daboll. He does design and call us into plays where we fail to execute. So better execution by better players would indeed make him look better. What bothers me is that he does seem to move away from things that are working, or to use personnel packages that are intended to be clever or fool the opponent instead of just putting the best guys for the play on the field, even when we have better guys for that play call. If he won't put the best talent we have to the best use now, will he change and do that with better talent? Secondary concern is all the players talking about how complex his plays are and when we ran no-huddle, how much time they had to spend memorizing. KISS has its place for a young offense. I understand. I'm just playing devil's advocate really. If I was Daboll in McDermott's office I would be saying look at the statistical improvement in Allen under me as OC year one to year 2. Edited January 6, 2020 by london_bills
Bill from NYC Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Feelings about Daboll: Ambivalence. I see him do very sound, very clever play design. Yea! That opening sequence against the Texans was great. But he can't seem to sustain it throughout a game. I see him seemingly pay absolutely no attention to what I see as a cardinal principle of offensive play calling: put your best players in the best position to exploit the opponents' weakness, which is why we wind up with Dimarco and Smith out wide or with Knox blocking Judon, or with slow developing routes against a blitz-heavy defensive attack. He's all about exploiting the opponent's weakness, and he does take them at fault and exploit them at times, but he seems to regard every guy on the roster as an FRU (field replaceable unit) who can do just as much as everyone else. I don't feel he puts Allen into positions to succeed: he seems to put him in positions that activate his "Hero Ball" tendencies. And he doesn't seem to call games that make sense. It's like he can design a beautifully crafted set of puzzle pieces and can't figure out how to put them together in a way that works. Unfortunately I don't know enough about football to articulate what I see in technical terms. What we do here just so often is blame coaches and/or the "scheme" rather than the players. It is simple and painless to do. It is easy to point out our perceived weaknesses of Daboll for sure. My question to you would be: What other OC would have taken this particular team to greater heights? This was the best Bills team in many years. That said, Daboll had an offense with a very young QB from a small college who lacked tools (although the blocking was much better). With this he won 10 games. I am thinking that this might be just a bit of an accomplishment. We have 90 mil. in cap space and a draft full of receivers. The Bills can be great in 2020 with or without Daboll. Of course, jmo. 2
Bangarang Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 Todd Monken would probably be one of my top choices to replace Daboll. I really liked what he did in TB last year.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Bangarang said: Todd Monken would probably be one of my top choices to replace Daboll. I really liked what he did in TB last year. Q: by last year you mean 2018? or this past season 2019? Not being obtuse here, just checking. 1
Bangarang Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said: Q: by last year you mean 2018? or this past season 2019? Not being obtuse here, just checking. Forgot it was 2020. I meant the 2018 season when he was OC in TB.
Recommended Posts