Browns interview Brian Daboll for HC; have interest in pairing with Bills Asst. GM Joe Schoen

[dave mcbride]

12 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

2011 was all about Fred Jackson. He was literally having an MVP season. They cratered but IMO it was all about the injury, and IIRC a few more with the WR. Gailey did a lot with a little. I think the Dolphins actually made a great hire.

Perhaps. I will say this: Gailey has been 50-50 with Fitz: good in 2011 and 2015, basement-level in 2010 and 2016, and a little below average in 2012. 

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Well if we’re going context then you need to factor in Josh Allen scrambles and designed runs.  If Allen couldn’t run, he wouldn’t have had 109 rushing attempts, we would pass more.  If we are going to use that, then Baltimore has the most conservative offense in the NFL.

The scrambles can accurately be described as passing plays that broke down, but the designed runs are genuine rushing plays. 

Edited December 31, 2019 by dave mcbride

[egd]

17 hours ago, GG said:

It would be worse to lose Daboll than it was to lose Pettine to the Browns.

 

No, Daboll is universally hated in Buffalo. There were posts here he cost us the division.

 

As for Pettine, we got better when we was replaced by Schwartz.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

....LMAO....welcome to Haslamville's "rebate program"........if Daboll gets hired with a five year deal, he'll be fired after two and gets three years paid vacation..............

 

Cleveland Browns head coach firings have cost franchise a fortune

Browns fired Freddie Kitchens after just one season

 

By Thomas BarrabiFOXBusiness

 

Lackluster on-field performances have left the Cleveland Browns’ front office on the hook for millions of dollars in salary to fired coaches over the last decade. The sum is expected to grow even larger following Freddie Kitchens’ dismissal on Monday.

 

The Browns fired Kitchens after just one season as head coach following a disappointing campaign. Cleveland had high expectations after acquiring superstar wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr. in the offseason, but second-year quarterback Baker Mayfield regressed under Kitchens’ tutelage and the team finished the season with a 6-10 record.

 

While the Browns never publicized the financial details of Kitchens’ contract, most coaches sign multi-year deals when accepting an NFL team’s top job. As a result, Cleveland owner Jimmy Haslam will likely be paying both Kitchens and the coach hired as his successor during the 2020 season.

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/sports/cleveland-browns-head-coach-firings-cost

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Royale with Cheese]

34 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The scrambles can accurately be described as passing plays that broke down, but the designed runs are genuine rushing plays. 

 

Allen does have a lot of designed runs and you can't just assume it's passing plays the broke down.  There's time where he just sees an opening and takes off.

Regardless, it's still a rushing attempt even though it was a designed passing play?  That's why we are heavier in rush attempts.  

[ArtVandalay]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

LOL...run run pass? 

 

The Bills have passed the ball 513 times.  They've ran 465 times and 109 of those are Allen runs.  

The math adds up there Scott.

@ScottLaw must be a lawyer... Concerned with the argument, not the facts ? jk

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

Your questions are asked by the majority of Bills fans.  Unfortunately none of us are privy to what happens in the bowels of OBD.

 

None of us know what Beane and McDermott's long term "learning plan" and timeline for Josh Allen has been.

None of know what kind of discussions and debates there are with Daboll and what his opinions/recommendations are to his bosses.

None of us know what Josh Allen is saying or thinking concerning his development behind closed doors.

We have no idea what Beane and McDermott think of Dabolls' game day planning and play calling.

 

Who has the final say about players like Yeldon and William?  Is it McDermott?  Daboll?  Are the assistant coaches queried?

 

Personally I hope for an improved offense with or without Daboll.  For continuity sake I would prefer he stays but I have no benefit of

the answers to the questions we all ask.

 

I will leave it to Beane and McDermott to figure it out.  I trust them.

 

Your points are valid.  I think it's a reasonable assumption that when a team trades up and uses a high first round pick on a guy regarded as a developmental prospect, ESPECIALLY when they give him a poor OL and poor skill players his first year, they plan on giving him 4 years.

 

As far as the final say on players like Yeldon and William, Daboll addressed that during this week's presser.  He said that the decisions are made in a meeting led by McDermott and featuring the coordinators from all 3 phases of the game and Beane.  He specifically mentioned several positions on ST at which they want to have the best player active.  It seems pretty clear that each coordinator states their case (probably including contingency plans) then if there's a dispute, McDermott likely gets the final say.

 

I would presume that the coordinators take grading and input from the position coaches into the meeting.

 

 

4 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

On the identity point, if you prefer that we line up 3 x 1 all of the time and attempt to dictate play to every opponent, we simply disagree.  By way of example, following the Ravens experience, we went heavy to avoid having Dupree, Watt, and company wreck the Steelers game.  It worked.  3 x 1 against the Ravens wasn’t so effective. 

 

By 3 x 1 are you referring to 11 set (1 RB, 1 TE, 3 WR?)

 

We actually had some 11 set plays against the Steelers that worked well, BUT IMO they worked well because we were giving Ford help most of the game and not expecting Knox to take on someone above his current level of blocking savvy and skill.

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Your points are valid.  I think it's a reasonable assumption that when a team trades up and uses a high first round pick on a guy regarded as a developmental prospect, ESPECIALLY when they give him a poor OL and poor skill players his first year, they plan on giving him 4 years.

 

As far as the final say on players like Yeldon and William, Daboll addressed that during this week's presser.  He said that the decisions are made in a meeting led by McDermott and featuring the coordinators from all 3 phases of the game and Beane.  He specifically mentioned several positions on ST at which they want to have the best player active.  It seems pretty clear that each coordinator states their case (probably including contingency plans) then if there's a dispute, McDermott likely gets the final say.

 

I would presume that the coordinators take grading and input from the position coaches into the meeting.

 

 

 

Of course, the one presser I don't watch and McD gives up info I really would like to hear.

LOL

[DefenseWins]

First, I don't believe that this is even the time to be debating Daboll's competancy as OC.  The season isn't even over yet.

 

Second, As far as Allen is concerned, he is still a raw talent. He really only started two season's at Wyoming (2016-17) which is hardly a big name football school. He is now finishing his 2nd season with the Bills having led them to the playoffs this season. But he is still learning the pro game. I'd say he has shown good progress this season so far. We could at least wait to see what the Bills do in the wild card game and perhaps longer before debating these issues. 

 

Third, while Oliver, Ford, Singletary and Knox have all shown flashes of the talent that led to their being drafted we have to remember that they are all still rookies. They are gonna have their ups and downs. But their future looks bright. I for one hope that Daboll does stick around beyond this season. Continuity is important. With another good draft class hopefully bringing in a top notch WR and more OLine help this team can only get better. This is not a Super Bowl contending team just yet but their progress is undeniable. On to Houston!

 

[Reed83HOF]

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Bill Walsh would have had the same results as Daboll last season.

 

 

 

We will have to agree to disagree on that one.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

We will have to agree to disagree on that one.

You think Walsh would have made chicken salad with that horrendous line, those qbs, those garbage receivers, and no credible TE to speak of?

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

 

True, but they did finish 24th in pass attempts and 6th in rushing attempts. Context is important - most teams pass more than they run now. 

 

Nowhere craves 1970s football like Buffalo. 

[BillsVet]

14 hours ago, Dan said:

For 20 years, I've heard nothing but we need to get rid of this guy or that guy and we'll immediately be better.  Finally, we have some continuity.  The same HC, OC, DC and several key players in place.  And we're finally 10-6 and in the playoffs.   Yet, we want our young QB's OC gone??   I say no.. I want them to continue developing together and getting better; not starting over with someone new in a new system.  

 

The continuity argument was repeated endlessly during the DJ years, particularly after Buffalo had finished 2-8 in 2008.  That was only 2 months after the Bills extended Jauron's contract.

 

If something's not working, it's incumbent on management to make a change.  The Bills invested plenty of picks and UFA dollars on the offense and it's only produced the 23rd ranking in points scored.  They were 30th last year for reference.  

 

I don't see an innovative OC or someone with fresh ideas.  Perhaps that's the HC guiding the game-planning, who knows.  But Daboll's track record in Buffalo isn't one the supports the continuity argument.  The unknown (a new hire) could very well be a better option than continuity.  

[Reed83HOF]

 

[YoloinOhio]

45 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Solid fantasy football roster ?

[Dan]

36 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

The continuity argument was repeated endlessly during the DJ years, particularly after Buffalo had finished 2-8 in 2008.  That was only 2 months after the Bills extended Jauron's contract.

 

If something's not working, it's incumbent on management to make a change.  The Bills invested plenty of picks and UFA dollars on the offense and it's only produced the 23rd ranking in points scored.  They were 30th last year for reference.  

 

I don't see an innovative OC or someone with fresh ideas.  Perhaps that's the HC guiding the game-planning, who knows.  But Daboll's track record in Buffalo isn't one the supports the continuity argument.  The unknown (a new hire) could very well be a better option than continuity.  

I would agree with you.  I don't like the continuity just for continuity sake. But in my mind, we have a young, 2nd year QB that has made inprovements in his game .  We have a, reportedly, highly complex offense that Daboll is installing. And we had 10 new starters going into this year.  

 

To see ..any.. improvement given all that says to me that Daboll isn't completely incompetent.  Hence, I'd be in favor of another year to see if progress continues.   He definitely needs to work on lots of his game planning, preparation and most importantly.. situational play calling.  But, to be fair, so does McDermott.   

 

If he does leave, I don't think it's the end of the world.  But, for Josh's continued development, having stability at the OC level seems highly important.  Very few, if any, young QBs develop into true top 5 talents in an ever changing offense. So, if Daboll, does leave... McDermott better get it right.  

[Nihilarian]

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

You think Walsh would have made chicken salad with that horrendous line, those qbs, those garbage receivers, and no credible TE to speak of?

I think he would have.

 

The basis for the WCO is nothing more then an elongated hand off by passing to move the chains. In that style of offense you don't need much time in the pocket to throw the shorts.

 

So, Walsh would have never asked Allen to lead the league with deep throws. Asking Josh Allen to throw deep so often with that "horrendous" line was utterly moronic. Starting Nathan Peterman at QB that year was also utterly moronic. 

 

 

 

Do any of you defending Daboll honestly think he will come up with a game plan to beat the Texans, in Houston with JJ Watt playing? Should a miracle happen and the Bills defense gets many turnovers to somehow squeak by them... do any of you think the Bills will have the wherewithal to go to Kansas City, New England or Baltimore and put up enough offense to compete with them? 

 

The guy had extra time to game plan against the Ravens and he had no answer to stop the cover 0 blitz. Couldn't step up the protections? If they send 7, keep 7 in to defend. The offense isn't all just about Allen and the passing game. Its about the line, the receivers routes and getting open, its the run game too.

 

Making it "all" work on offense to over power the opponent...you know, kinda like what the Ravens do to all other teams. 

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Do you know what context means?

 

There really is no argument. Outside of a couple games, the Bills offense crawls into a shell in late in the games with leads due to fear of turning the ball over.... the Steelers and Patriots games are prime examples. 

 

Yeah I do know what context means.  Run run punt is nowhere near accurate.

How about the context in which we have a QB that ran 109 times?  Meaning our rushing attempts will obviously be heavier since we have a dual threat QB.

 

Do you know what context means?

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Nihilarian said:

I think he would have.

 

The basis for the WCO is nothing more then an elongated hand off by passing to move the chains. In that style of offense you don't need much time in the pocket to throw the shorts.

 

So, Walsh would have never asked Allen to lead the league with deep throws. Asking Josh Allen to throw deep so often with that "horrendous" line was utterly moronic. Starting Nathan Peterman at QB that year was also utterly moronic. 

 

 

 

Do any of you defending Daboll honestly think he will come up with a game plan to beat the Texans, in Houston with JJ Watt playing? Should a miracle happen and the Bills defense gets many turnovers to somehow squeak by them... do any of you think the Bills will have the wherewithal to go to Kansas City, New England or Baltimore and put up enough offense to compete with them? 

 

The guy had extra time to game plan against the Ravens and he had no answer to stop the cover 0 blitz. Couldn't step up the protections? If they send 7, keep 7 in to defend. The offense isn't all just about Allen and the passing game. Its about the line, the receivers routes and getting open, its the run game too.

 

Making it "all" work on offense to over power the opponent...you know, kinda like what the Ravens do to all other teams. 

 

 

 

If you defend 7 by keeping 7 in you have lost already. Completely the wrong approach. I couldn't disagree with you more philosophically about how they need to run this offense.