Browns interview Brian Daboll for HC; have interest in pairing with Bills Asst. GM Joe Schoen

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, SectionC3 said:

 

It’s not that we haven’t tried screens.  It’s that they don’t work.  (Think the Spain holding call, I believe it was against Pittsburgh but could be wrong on that.)  Allen played two series against the Jets, and his throws were on things that he/the offense need to work on.  (Screen left to Gore; looked like WR screen right - I sit on the other side of the stadium, so not completely sure what the design was there; and deep shot to Williams).  There’s no sense in running something that isn’t going to work.  

 

On the identity point, if you prefer that we line up 3 x 1 all of the time and attempt to dictate play to every opponent, we simply disagree.  By way of example, following the Ravens experience, we went heavy to avoid having Dupree, Watt, and company wreck the Steelers game.  It worked.  3 x 1 against the Ravens wasn’t so effective.  

 

On the Gore point, if memory serves Singletary has received the vast majority of the carries during the second half of the season and after he regained his health.  Gore’s carries tend to come when we’re trying to control the game on the ground, and his skill set does not lend itself to running outside the tackles frequently.  Think the first play in the “three run” goal line series against Pittsburgh where he was swallowed up.  Or think of the screen that had a bit of potential against the Jets that amounted to only five or so yards.  Gore gets the ball because he doesn’t fumble, and if he’s getting the ball he’s running between the tackles.  

 

Given Allen’s progress, I desperately want continuity next year.  Even if Daboll goes, I’d like same terminology, same philosophy, and similar group back.  O’Shea seems to make sense if Daboll leaves, or an in house candidate that McDermott trusts.  

Agree that we can not have a new system on Offense if Daboll leaves, that would likely have a negative effect on the progress of Josh and the entire O. I think Sean already has candidates for OC on his desk as we speak, along with every other coaching position for that matter.

 

Go Bills!!!

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Chan Gailey had the Bills at 14th in the NFL in scoring in 2011 with a lot less talent than this Bills team.

 

I enjoy some of the plays Daboll draws up but ultimately the problem with defending him is that he has just never had that moment where he clearly coached up the talent.

 

The Bills' offensive rankings were poor in his other two seasons in Buffalo, however. As for 2011, they did have a great start, averaging 30 points and 380 yards over the first seven games. I'd also argue that Fred Jackson was playing like a first-team all-pro that season (and far better than the RB combo we have now). The offense really pretty much cratered after he went down.  Also note that the Bills' offense had a ton of turnovers in 2011 - 30 (25th worst in the league). They ended up 11th this season and would have finished higher if not for Barkley's trifecta of turnovers on Sunday. They had 16 going into week 17. 

 

As I've said elsewhere, it's really about the players. Gailey has overseen some good offenses and some very bad offenses (the Jets finished 26th in points, 30th in yards, and 31st in offensive turnovers his final season in NY). There's a pretty strong correlation between the players he had and the offensive performance. I like Gailey; don't get me wrong. I think he's a good schemer. But it's a simple fact that Daboll has been plagued by poor talent in all of his stops in the NFL. 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Dopey said:

If Josh hits 2 long passes vs. Baltimore we have 14 more points and probably win. Against on hell of a defense. If Josh hits 2 wide open passes in the 1st NE game, we score 14 more points and win that game. Those were deep, wide open plays. Daboll called those plays, Josh missed on them. Some of you seem to see any play that doesn't get converted as a bad play call. If that's the case, all OC's suck.

ScottLaw gets execution and philosophy confused.

He thinks just because they struggled, it’s because they were conservative.

Just as you said, Allen had a lot of misses.  If he connected, Scott wouldn’t be saying they were conservative.

[Chandler#81]

[HappyDays]

40 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Allen's mechanics stink. That's on Allen, no one else. He'll have to commit to getting that part fixed.

 

His mechanics have improved a lot this year. Occasionally he reverts back to bad habits. He's still developing the new muscle memory. I expect he and Jordan Palmer will continue working on it this offseason.

[Rocky Landing]

If Daboll does go, I wonder what the story was with Chad O'Shea in Miami? I watched about half of their games this season on Game Pass, and thought that their play calling was pretty decent for having possibly the worst roster in the league.

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bills' offensive rankings were poor in his other two seasons in Buffalo, however. As for 2011, they did have a great start, averaging 30 points and 380 yards over the first seven games. I'd also argue that Fred Jackson was playing like a first-team all-pro that season (and far better than the RB combo we have now). The offense really pretty much cratered after he went down.  Also note that the Bills' offense had a ton of turnovers in 2011 - 30 (25th worst in the league). They ended up 11th this season and would have finished higher if not for Barkley's trifecta of turnovers on Sunday. They had 16 going into week 17. 

 

As I've said elsewhere, it's really about the players. Gailey has overseen some good offenses and some very bad offenses (the Jets finished 26th in points, 30th in yards, and 31st in offensive turnovers his final season in NY). There's a pretty strong correlation between the players he had and the offensive performance. I like Gailey; don't get me wrong. I think he's a good schemer. But it's a simple fact that Daboll has been plagued by poor talent in all of his stops in the NFL. 

 

You are short selling Gailey as an OC and you know it. 

 

As Gailey and more recently Anthony Lynn have showed us........for some OC's it's not just about the players.

 

Since Daboll arrived in Buffalo the Bills are 30th in the NFL in scoring.

 

You can make excuses that make sense why he's not necessarily "bad" but there is simply nothing tangible that says he's more than a net zero gain as an OC.

 

[Boatdrinks]

Daboll looks like he could be Kitchens’ cousin. He won’t get the Browns job. I wouldn’t hate it if he did, though. The Bills could just bump up Ken Dorsey to OC. They can keep the offense and build on it rather than starting over. Dorsey seems to connect with Josh Allen as well. I’m not sure Daboll and Allen have the same kind of simpatico football relationship. 

[ColoradoBills]

56 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Yes, Josh Allen missed a lot of passes this season. Now ask the question why?

 

Ask why Allen who hit a few bombs to Robert Foster last season can't connect this season? Josh has the strongest arm in the NFL and yet has hit only 3 of 34 passes over 30 yards . An 8.8%. In the first six games this season Allen was 0-10.

 

Allen finished the season with a 58.8% completion percentage. Matt Barkley finished with a 52.9% when in other seasons he had a 61.2%, 59.7%, 60.0%.

 

Now ask Is it all Josh Allen? 

 

 

 

On another note.Bills fans have been clamoring for Buffalo to find a big, tall WR who can go up and get those contested balls. Bills fans have been clamoring all season to see Duke Williams (6'3'' 225lbs) on the field and in a meaningless game against the Jets he has 6 receptions for 108 yards. TJ Yeldon finally gets some work, a guy who has been very good as a receiver out of the backfield. 

 

Your questions are asked by the majority of Bills fans.  Unfortunately none of us are privy to what happens in the bowels of OBD.

 

None of us know what Beane and McDermott's long term "learning plan" and timeline for Josh Allen has been.

None of know what kind of discussions and debates there are with Daboll and what his opinions/recommendations are to his bosses.

None of us know what Josh Allen is saying or thinking concerning his development behind closed doors.

We have no idea what Beane and McDermott think of Dabolls' game day planning and play calling.

 

Who has the final say about players like Yeldon and William?  Is it McDermott?  Daboll?  Are the assistant coaches queried?

 

Personally I hope for an improved offense with or without Daboll.  For continuity sake I would prefer he stays but I have no benefit of

the answers to the questions we all ask.

 

I will leave it to Beane and McDermott to figure it out.  I trust them.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Oh please.

 

Josh misses his fair share of passes, I just think Josh's game is getting into a rthym. He's not a game manager. The run, run, pass/run again offense does not bring the best out of him. 

 

LOL...run run pass? 

 

The Bills have passed the ball 513 times.  They've ran 465 times and 109 of those are Allen runs.  

The math adds up there Scott.

[dave mcbride]

26 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

You are short selling Gailey as an OC and you know it. 

 

As Gailey and more recently Anthony Lynn have showed us........for some OC's it's not just about the players.

 

Since Daboll arrived in Buffalo the Bills are 30th in the NFL in scoring.

 

You can make excuses that make sense why he's not necessarily "bad" but there is simply nothing tangible that says he's more than a net zero gain as an OC.

 

I of course know that some OCs are better than others. That goes without saying. But saying that the Bills are 30th in scoring since he arrived and failing to mention that the Bills fielded arguably the worst offensive talent in franchise history last season is sophistic arguing.  Bill Walsh would have had the same results as Daboll last season.

 

I'm also not saying that Daboll is Gailey's equal, but I do want to see  him run an offense with good overall talent. Hopefully, the Bills will have that next season. 

18 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

LOL...run run pass? 

 

The Bills have passed the ball 513 times.  They've ran 465 times and 109 of those are Allen runs.  

The math adds up there Scott.

True, but they did finish 24th in pass attempts and 6th in rushing attempts. Context is important - most teams pass more than they run now. 

Edited December 31, 2019 by dave mcbride

[Rocky Landing]

21 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

They wanted to keep the QB coach, who they felt McDaniels would try to hire as an OC. The QB coach is a guy that Jimmy G has hyped a lot in regards to his development in the Cheats* offense while Brady & McDaniels were off in their own world (terminology wise, etc)

This is confusing to me. Are you saying the Phins are planning on bumping up QB coach to OC, in order to keep him from going to the Pats*?

[Solomon Grundy]

3 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I believe if we win it has to be local to Buffalo. 

Hokie, what's the deal with this Ashby guy?

[BringBackOrton]

34 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Oh please.

 

Josh misses his fair share of passes, I just think Josh's game is getting into a rthym. He's not a game manager. The run, run, pass/run again offense does not bring the best out of him. 

Lol, we passed a ton in the first half of the year and all we heard was how Josh isn’t Brady and we need to run more. 

[Scott7975]

McD was asked to confirm that the Browns reached out to interview Daboll.  Coach said "I'm not going to get into that.  Brian is focused on what we are doing this week."

 

That's good to hear.

[Kelly the Dog]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bills' offensive rankings were poor in his other two seasons in Buffalo, however. As for 2011, they did have a great start, averaging 30 points and 380 yards over the first seven games. I'd also argue that Fred Jackson was playing like a first-team all-pro that season (and far better than the RB combo we have now). The offense really pretty much cratered after he went down.  Also note that the Bills' offense had a ton of turnovers in 2011 - 30 (25th worst in the league). They ended up 11th this season and would have finished higher if not for Barkley's trifecta of turnovers on Sunday. They had 16 going into week 17. 

 

As I've said elsewhere, it's really about the players. Gailey has overseen some good offenses and some very bad offenses (the Jets finished 26th in points, 30th in yards, and 31st in offensive turnovers his final season in NY). There's a pretty strong correlation between the players he had and the offensive performance. I like Gailey; don't get me wrong. I think he's a good schemer. But it's a simple fact that Daboll has been plagued by poor talent in all of his stops in the NFL. 

2011 was all about Fred Jackson. He was literally having an MVP season. They cratered but IMO it was all about the injury, and IIRC a few more with the WR. Gailey did a lot with a little. I think the Dolphins actually made a great hire.

[Scott7975]

7 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Lol, we passed a ton in the first half of the year and all we heard was how Josh isn’t Brady and we need to run more. 

 

The problem for me is they don't mix it up enough.  They don't do things you would typically see and they don't help Josh get into a rhythm.  IMO that is part of why Josh has slow starts.  For instance they ran 7/10 on first down a couple weeks ago.  Second down was much the same.  How often do you see play action or a shot on second and short?   Not very often.  Yet we see the shots on third and short.  We get a turnover in FG range to start the game.  Instead of going for the jugular they run 5 straight times and kick a FG.  These are just some of the types of things that I hate about Dabolls offense.

 

Now whether I want him gone or not.. Im on the fence really.  I do see some things Daboll does really well if the offense would execute it.  I also see a lot of boneheaded wtf were you thinking type calls that to me are a huge problem for this offense.  Continuity is good but its only good if he is a good coach.  Something I am not convinced of yet.

[BuffaloHokie13]

15 minutes ago, the skycap said:

Hokie, what's the deal with this Ashby guy?

Is it overly harsh to say he's a poor man's Reggie Ragland? I'm really not sure where he fits at the next level. Good head on his shoulders though, so I wouldn't count him out. 

[Royale with Cheese]

27 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

True, but they did finish 24th in pass attempts and 6th in rushing attempts. Context is important - most teams pass more than they run now. 

Well if we’re going context then you need to factor in Josh Allen scrambles and designed runs.  If Allen couldn’t run, he wouldn’t have had 109 rushing attempts, we would pass more.  If we are going to use that, then Baltimore has the most conservative offense in the NFL.

[MAJBobby]

See DePodesta seems to be winning this years power struggle