JMF2006 Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 7 hours ago, Scott7975 said: Incorrect I always thought it was hands off unless its the teams bye week or they were eliminated. I think its a cheap low blow by the Browns to try and distract the Bills as they prepare for their biggest game in 20 years. I wish he would just say go away I am busy call me in 5 weeks.
Nihilarian Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 3 hours ago, JerseyBills said: Shows how much the league admires and respects what McDermott has done. I agree with this. It's the defense that has carried this team this season and the offense has done just enough to win games. 10 of 16 games the Bills scored 20 points or less. Yes, Josh Allen has improved this season as he now has a QB coach with real NFL actual experience as a QB coach, not a WR assistant coach as the QB coach. Josh stated on many occasions how much QB coach Ken Dorsey has helped him improve. For a lot of last season Josh didn't even have a veteran QB on the roster to help show him the ropes as all he had was Daboll. Oh, and as for change. Look what happened to Jared Goff from 2016 to 2017 when Sean McVay took over as HC, Matt LaFleur took over as the Rams OC. That Rams offense went from dead last in the NFL at 32nd in 2016 to #1 in points scored #10 in yards and Goff went from looking like a wasted #1 overall to a guy who looked like he should have been the #1 overall. 2016 stats for Goff 0-7 with a 54.6 completion percentage. In 2017, to 11-4 and a 62.1 completion percentage. Coaches should be acknowledged for what they accomplish and not for who they worked for or who they know. Yea the Bills offense has improved from 2018, 31st in yards passing, 32nd in TDs. 2019 26th in yards passing, 24th in TDs.
Kmart128 Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 Please Browns take him... offensive play calling is what is holding this team back. People sre crediting Daboll for Josh's improvement. Im more of a believer that it was Ken Dorsey who helped the most. Plus the game at this level is slowing down for Allen. Daboll is just a conservative coach... he plays it safe and because of that he will be nothing more than solid.
GunnerBill Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 20 minutes ago, Nihilarian said: Coaches should be acknowledged for what they accomplish and not for who they worked for or who they know. Yea the Bills offense has improved from 2018, 31st in yards passing, 32nd in TDs. 2019 26th in yards passing, 24th in TDs. To some teams in the league, the ones who did not like Josh Allen coming out, what Daboll has achieved with him is seen as an accomplishment. I don't know if the Browns were in that camp or not - there was certainly some buzz about Allen going #1 but who knows. Equally, and I say this all the time, being a coordinator and a head coach are two different jobs. Mike McCarthy got the Green Bay job after coordinating the 32nd ranked offense in the league in San Francisco. He won a Superbowl there, whether people like him or not. What Cleveland needs is someone who can instil a winning culture and that is where working for Belichick and Saban and then being part of the turnaround with McDermott is going to be seen as valuable. Teams will be interviewing him and probing that I suspect much more than the Xs and Os. Has he picked up enough knowledge from those guys to lead a culture change in Cleveland. Because if he got there he would immediately walk in to a more talented offense. Hunt, Chubb, Landry, OBJ, Njoku..... every one of those would be a starter on the Bills immediately. Line and QB we might shade it but he will have the skill position guys. The question will be are you a guy who can lead. Because Kitchens was highly respected in the building for what he did with the Xs and Os play calling for Baker in the 2nd half of 2018. What was evident almost from the get go though was he could not lead. 9 minutes ago, Kmart128 said: Please Browns take him... offensive play calling is what is holding this team back. People sre crediting Daboll for Josh's improvement. Im more of a believer that it was Ken Dorsey who helped the most. Plus the game at this level is slowing down for Allen. Daboll is just a conservative coach... he plays it safe and because of that he will be nothing more than solid. I don't get the conservative thing. In our two biggest televised games of the year we scored touchdowns on trick plays. Other posters have moaned all year that he "gets too cute in the redzone." I think there are legitimate criticisms of Daboll's play calling. But being too conservative or not creative enough.... I just don't know where that comes from. 1
Giuseppe Tognarelli Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 Daboll said yesterday that there aren't enough hours in the day to prepare for playoff games. This necessarily takes away from preparation next week if the Bills advance.
Mr. WEO Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 6 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: And 120 vs Dallas, 117 vs Miami, 102 vs NE and 92 vs Denver. And Philly was one of the first 8 games Josh played. Not one of the last 8. You don’t have a point here unless you can tell me his overall QB rating was higher in the first 8 games played than it was in the last 8 games. I’ll save you the time in looking, it wasn’t. And that doesn’t even factor the greater degree of difficulty in the second half of the season playing better defenses and games that matter with playoffs on the line. Your theory that Daboll held Allen back in the second half of the season doesn’t seem to hold any water. Unless holding back strictly refers to passing yards and completion percentage. And again against much better defenses. Well, and scoring.
Chaos Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 6 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Not ours....or have you not been paying attn The point is that people get excited about things that are actually quite pedestrian. They act as though not being one of the worst teams in history is the same thing as "unprecedented success"
SectionC3 Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 8 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: Does McD seem like a head coach to you that is going to let his offensive coordinator open things up so his QB can throw for 300 yard games? Maybe that time will come down the road with one but right now I believe McD could could very well be the one you should be pointing your finger at if you are unhappy with the passing yards the offense is producing. I say we keep both and let Allen continue to grow. Bingo. We play complimentary football and choke out teams at the end of games.
Mr. WEO Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 6 hours ago, Dopey said: So when he has the talent, he does a good job? How about we get more offensive talent like we all know we need? It's like you're talking out of both sides... Yes, when he had the best talent in college football and the sports best HC, he thrived. When he left, they thrived. My point is that, even though Josh has incrementally improved, there is nothing in Daboll's history in the NFL as a coordinator that will give me confidence that he is not a factor that will prevent JA from getting to where he needs to be for this Offense. Pretty simple.
Sweats Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 Browns are always going after our sloppy seconds.......they went after Pettine and now Daboll.
SectionC3 Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: To some teams in the league, the ones who did not like Josh Allen coming out, what Daboll has achieved with him is seen as an accomplishment. I don't know if the Browns were in that camp or not - there was certainly some buzz about Allen going #1 but who knows. Equally, and I say this all the time, being a coordinator and a head coach are two different jobs. Mike McCarthy got the Green Bay job after coordinating the 32nd ranked offense in the league in San Francisco. He won a Superbowl there, whether people like him or not. What Cleveland needs is someone who can instil a winning culture and that is where working for Belichick and Saban and then being part of the turnaround with McDermott is going to be seen as valuable. Teams will be interviewing him and probing that I suspect much more than the Xs and Os. Has he picked up enough knowledge from those guys to lead a culture change in Cleveland. Because if he got there he would immediately walk in to a more talented offense. Hunt, Chubb, Landry, OBJ, Njoku..... every one of those would be a starter on the Bills immediately. Line and QB we might shade it but he will have the skill position guys. The question will be are you a guy who can lead. Because Kitchens was highly respected in the building for what he did with the Xs and Os play calling for Baker in the 2nd half of 2018. What was evident almost from the get go though was he could not lead. I don't get the conservative thing. In our two biggest televised games of the year we scored touchdowns on trick plays. Other posters have moaned all year that he "gets too cute in the redzone." I think there are legitimate criticisms of Daboll's play calling. But being too conservative or not creative enough.... I just don't know where that comes from. I’m with you there. John brown throwing the ball twice isn’t all that conservative to me. Throwing the ball 18 times in a row (or whatever it was) to start the season against the Jets also is not conservative to me. Maybe the NE game is a fair criticism - too many runs in first down - but the entirety of the season otherwise has been pretty modern and progressive.
GunnerBill Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: My point is that, even though Josh has incrementally improved, there is nothing in Daboll's history in the NFL as a coordinator that will give me confidence that he is not a factor that will prevent JA from getting to where he needs to be for this Offense. To my knowledge the only rookie / young QB he worked with before was Colt McCoy. Not sure there is enough there to base any assessment on. 1
SectionC3 Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: Well, and scoring. Complimentary football holds that back, too. Winning is the ultimate barometer.
GunnerBill Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 1 minute ago, SectionC3 said: I’m with you there. John brown throwing the ball twice isn’t all that conservative to me. Throwing the ball 18 times in a row (or whatever it was) to start the season against the Jets also is not conservative to me. Maybe the NE game is a fair criticism - too many runs in first down - but the entirety of the season otherwise has been pretty modern and progressive. Yea are there games where I thought we ran too much? Yep. Do I think all of that is on Daboll? No. Do I think I would characterise what we saw over 16 weeks as conservative? No. 1
SectionC3 Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 1 hour ago, ScottLaw said: Think that's a combination of Daboll and McDermott.... think back to that Goal to go possession against the Steelers after the Tre White INT... they ran it 3 straight times..... two of those were a setup (gore throw) and the third was to preserve FG after the trick play failed.
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said: Really? You missed the multiple calls where Josh overshot his WRs by 5+ yards? That happened on more than one occasion, including 3rd and short. It happened with Tyrod, too. I have to believe that Daboll is telling Josh to let the receivers run to the ball rather than trying to be near perfect with the pass. I'm with those who believe Daboll is holding Josh back. Remember back in training camp (maybe it was mini camp) when Josh Allen said that it was hard to overthrow WRs like John Brown??? I think you're right about letting the WRs run to the ball. Last year, many of the deep pass connections by Allen seemed to be underthrown balls that the WRs adjusted to. It was quite noticeable for me, just like Tyrod often taking deep shots in 3rd and short, and I think it was something that the coaches noticed and wanted to correct. It's obviously better to overthrow a 1 on 1 ball than it is to underthrow. By week 3 or so, the Bills and Allen failed to connect on 3 or 4 deep passes where the DB was beat for a TD, and the ball was overthrown...easy to connect the dots as to why. Partially mental, partial coached (and at times, part footwork/pressure). And I'm not simply referring to passes over 30 yards, I mean go routes against cover 1 specifically. That issue persisted throughout the season for the most part, until the last few games anyways. As far as that happenening on 3rd an short, under Daboll/Allen, I don't recall any specific instances offhand. I'm sure its happened, but you make it sound as if it happened so many times that it's egregious. That was the case with Tyrod (no exaggeration), not Allen. Anyhow, I don't want to nit pick one comment you made earlier in the thread. Your main point now is that Daboll is holding Allen back, which may or may not be the case. Personally, I think Allen is still playing a bit "raw" at times, missing easy throws that are there to be made. He puts too much zip on the ball at times, making it that much more difficult for WRs on shorter routes. There have been several inexcusable drops this year, but some of those weren't all on the WR/TE. He also has been a bit late on reads at times, although that cannon arm has bailed him out in some of those instances. Those are just a couple of noticable issues with Allen. BUT, he is still less than two full seasons into his career. The issues he has right now are about what we should have expected to see from him at this point in his career. He was about as raw of an uber-talented prospect coming out as we've seen recently, and it was never going to be a fast progression/transition for him. And with a good defense to lean on, it didn't need to be fast. In his first year, we learned that Allen is athletic enough to make plays with his feet, and that he has a "gamer" mentality. We already knew about the cannon arm. After that, there were a lot of areas that need improvement. I think most Bills fans will say that Allen is "better" as a passer this year, but still has a lot of work to do. There have been several plays left on the field this year, and not just 5 yard overthrows on deep TD passes. Perhaps Daboll is holding Allen back, but if the plays are there to be made, yet not being made, that's on the QB. We all complained about how many plays Tyrod left on the field on a consistent basis. Allen has already had his fair share, yet the narrative is a bit different for some reason. Granted, TT was more of a league veteran at the time than Allen currently is, but why is the narrative different when the situation is the same? Why does the guy calling the plays get flack when the play call and design was good, yet the players didn't execute? The way I see it, this team is just scratching the surface. Allen will hopefully continue to improve in areas that have held him and the offense back at times, and the roster on offense should improve as well, making life easier for Allen, and Daboll. I would like to hear a more detailed explaination as to how Daboll is holding Allen back. IMO, the fact that the Bills have a strong defense to lean on, and a bit of a conservative HC has "held back" Josh, in the sense that he is rarely tasked with carrying the team on his shoulders and willing the team to victory in a high scoring game. For the most part, Allen has done what he has been asked to: don't feel like you need to be the hero, and do just enough. Essentially, the offense is being called a certain way, for a reason, and it generally revolves around just how good your defense is at holding opponents to lower scores and getting off the field. I wouldn't lose sleep if Daboll leaves, but I would like to see him stay for a 3rd year. With a presumably better roster and a more refined Allen at QB, we will truly see how good Daboll is. Then again, a new OC would have the same benefit, albeit with possibly a new scheme and playbook for the players to first get a grip on. 2
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 ...he could reunite in Haslamville with Mangini just like 2009/2010.....he was Eric's OC.......switch roles......
BuffaloHokie13 Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 12 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: I do not think Daboll gets this job. That said, I think Dorsey would be a strong consideration as OC if he left. And then hire another ex-QB as QB coach
MAJBobby Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: Daboll said yesterday that there aren't enough hours in the day to prepare for playoff games. This necessarily takes away from preparation next week if the Bills advance. Bills fan and will dictate the date and time of the interview next week. So it could be AFTER the Friday Walkthrough. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 31, 2019 Posted December 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Bills fan and will dictate the date and time of the interview next week. So it could be AFTER the Friday Walkthrough. Teams usually do not allow their coaches to interview while they are involved in the playoffs. BAD move if the Bills actually allow this. Is it actually said that they will allow him to interview during preparation after we beat the Texans? Or is the "next week" stuff just inferred by writers who think we'll lose?
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