Bills' mishandling of the CB position

[JGMcD2]

57 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

I love Beane and McDermott and the job they've done overall. I support them going forward. But I still feel the need to draw attention to a critical mistake they've made. McDermott seemed borderline embarrassed about it in his press conference last night, so hopefully it won't happen again, but the fact that it was a mistake of this magnitude does cause some concern.

 

As I recall, the Bills were the only team in the NFL to carry only four CBs on their opening-day roster. I think everyone assumed this was just a temporary thing and they'd bring a veteran back after week 1, but it never happened. This meant the Bills were very thin at this position throughout the season and were very lucky to avoid significant injuries, until yesterday when they had to play two starters (Wallace and T. Johnson) deep into a meaningless game due to "a lack of bodies" as McDermott phrased it after the game.

 

With Wallace in a walking boot, it probably means we are walking into the playoffs -- against a potent passing attack which we can only hope does not include Will Fuller -- with two boundary corners, a banged-up slot corner, and only safeties to back them up. The Texans will be looking at this as the Bills' weakness to attack. Stills could have a big game.

 

McDermott said after the game that you hate to be in the position to have to play those guys like they did yesterday. Newsflash, McDermott/Beane: you didn't have to. You should have had a backup plan so you didn't have to risk the thinnest position on your roster going into the playoffs. Now you have put the team in a very difficult situation, and it was entirely avoidable. Start the season with another CB, or bring someone in just to play week 17. Either way, this never should have happened.

I believe I heard that this year we only used roughly  54 different players in a game up until this week. 
 

Harrison Phillips, Zay Jones, Kyle Peko, Connor McDermott and Maurice Alexander are the only players that made the 53 man roster that aren’t active for us as of week 17. Phillips and Alexander on the IR, Jones traded and McDermott and Peko released. To replace those players we signed Senorise Perry, Duke Williams, Corey Liuget, Vince Taylor and Kyle Peko (Peko was signed to replace Phillips and then released for Taylor).
 

Let me also point out that our castoffs have consistently been coveted (or at least immediately picked up) by teams across the league. Russell Bodine, Wyatt Teller, Zay Jones, Connor McDermott, Kyle Peko are all players that teams have traded for or claimed off waivers, rather than wait for them to hit FA. 

 

With all of that being said... this well written and there is thought behind it so I won’t dismiss it like others have thus far. 
 

Out of curiosity who would you have cut this year and when would you have cut them? What corner(s) would you have added? If you had cut a player in week 17 you are going to be leaving another position group susceptible to injury or cutting a player that shouldn’t necessarily be cut. So which position group/area of strength would you be more willing to jeopardize? 
 

Edited December 30, 2019 by JGMcD2

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I thought Taron went back in for a play even though he looked hobbled? I thought Wallace was the one who looked done for the year. If they are both done you need to bring two guys in.

 

I believe that's correct.

 

I'm more concerned about Taron than Levi though--I think KJ will represent little to no dropoff, whereas the drop off from Taron to Neal is more significant  

[Hampton Josh fan]

Every team has a position that gets exposed by injuries and lack of depth. Levi got torched plenty during the season and missed a lot of tackles. Losing him is not a killer.The Johnson boys should hold their own. 

[Fixxxer]

with the way the back-up secondary as a whole played and communicated against the Jets I'm not super woŕried. 

 

the only concern I have with the defense right now is the poor tackling

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

6 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

I believe I heard that this year we only used roughly  54 different players in a game up until this week. 
 

Harrison Phillips, Zay Jones, Kyle Peko, Connor McDermott and Maurice Alexander are the only players that made the 53 man roster that aren’t active for us as of week 17. Phillips and Alexander on the IR, Jones traded and McDermott and Peko released. To replace those players we signed Senorise Perry, Duke Williams, Corey Liuget, Vince Taylor and Kyle Peko (Peko was signed to replace Phillips and then released for Taylor). 

 

This is well written and there is thought behind it so I won’t dismiss it like others have thus far. 
 

Out of curiosity who would you have cut this year and when would you have cut them? What corner(s) would you have added? If you had cut a player in week 17 you are going to be leaving another position group susceptible to injury or cutting a player that shouldn’t necessarily be cut. So which position group/area of strength would you be more willing to jeopardize? 
 

I appreciate that. I've noted elsewhere in the thread that the Bills stockpiled safeties -- J. Johnson, Marlowe, Coleman -- who barely played, if at all. Going with so many backups there when there are only two starters, both of which have been very reliable and durable throughout their careers, while leaving CB so thin was very puzzling to me. Throw in the fact that T. Johnson and K. Johnson both had significant injury history, this was always an area of concern. They should have kept Gaines and/or Munnerlyn or some other veteran and let go of one or two of the extra safeties.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Giuseppe Tognarelli

[CaptnCoke11]

People wanted Wallace to rest lol.  People are funny 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

23 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

For me, the folks reacting like this is crazy talk must believe that McDermott can do no wrong, or they just don't want to hear any points of concern about the team. The fact is that the Bills are thin at corner and are about to face a dynamic passing attack. The Bills chose to keep J. Johnson, Marlowe, and Coleman, who have barely seen the field, over another reliable backup corner. I think that was the wrong decision.

 

1. Don't deflect. You are making bad arguments. You getting called on them does not mean your critics believe "McDermott can do not wrong."  

 

2. Special teams matter. The extra safety plays the spot on special teams usually reserved for the last CB.  However, they are interchangeable.

 

3. At the end of the day, McDermott kept his most expendable players on the field.  For example, Spain. Of all our lineman, Spain is the most easily replaceable. On the other side, because Johnson and Wallace split time, one of those two are more easily expendable. 

 

4. Our defense runs on Poyer, Hyde, and White. The difference between the 4th DB and the 5th DB is negligible.  

[Billzgobowlin]

So what you are saying is you wish Tre White was active?

[MR8]

26 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

You're missing the point. It's not that they need starting-caliber backups; it's that they need backups period. They don't have them. They have safeties instead. It's not about a freak injury; it's about the lack of numbers at the position.

 

They have plenty of DBs who can play both CB and Safety... you're blowing this way out of proportion.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

No, it's not about the freak accident. He shouldn't have been playing in the first place; the rest of the starters were gone by then.

 

If someone gets hurt on Saturday, are you comfortable with Siran Neal or Isaiah McKenzie covering Kenny Stills?

 

The point is, we had deactivated our star CB Tre White.  So you're fundamentally dissing on McDermott's roster management because of a game that kind of flukishly didn't count - unlike the Chiefs, NE, SF, Sea, Titans, Cowboys, Eagles etc our playoff fate was already decided and whether we won or lost didn't change it,  so we deactivated a healthy star player then made a choice to sit the starter who shares reps when the guy he shares reps with went down to protect him

 

How many games in how many seasons are going to be Just That Circumstance?  I would much rather be the Chiefs or NE or Titans etc where the 16th game is being played for home field or something.

 

If we were playing for something yesterday and not resting our guys, Tre is in there, Wallace gets hurt and Kevin Johnson comes in and stays in.

 

 

[SectionC3]

20 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I believe that's correct.

 

I'm more concerned about Taron than Levi though--I think KJ will represent little to no dropoff, whereas the drop off from Taron to Neal is more significant  

 

Not sure what the TV broadcast showed with respect to the Wallace injury.  But it looked bad.  Non-contact, and he wouldn’t put weight on it as he left the field.  I couldn’t believe they didn’t get the cart for him.  I hope it’s not an Achilles, but that was my thought watching it live in the stadium yesterday. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

55 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

You’re right, incompetence of the highest level.  Fire him and bring in Freddie, he’s got time on his hands.  ?

I’ve worked for micromanagers like you.

this is where I am at. The mismanagement of Eli Wallace is unacceptable. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Just now, JR in Pittsburgh said:

this is where I am at. The mismanagement of Eli Wallace is unacceptable. 

It’s outrageous, egregious...it’s totally unacceptable!

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

I remain thoroughly puzzled. It's hard for me to believe that any objective observer could look at the situation right now and feel comfortable with the depth at the cornerback position.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Clemfield2622 said:

I think the reason they felt comfortable going with 4 is that some of the safeties had versatility to play corner in a pinch.  

 

It's not easy to bring in a guy for one game, as you would have to make a roster spot. 

Bingo.  Siran Neal can play corner.

[Warren Zevon]

What is Youboty up to?

[JGMcD2]

15 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

I appreciate that. I've noted elsewhere in the thread that the Bills stockpiled safeties -- J. Johnson, Marlowe, Coleman -- who barely played, if at all. Going with so many backups there when there are only two starters, both of which have been very reliable and durable throughout their careers, while leaving CB so thin was very puzzling to me. Throw in the fact that T. Johnson and K. Johnson both had significant injury history, this was always an area of concern. They should have kept Gaines and/or Munnerlyn or some other veteran and let go of one or two of the extra safeties.

I definitely see what you mean by keeping so many safeties and them not seeing much playing time,  but almost none of our backups have played extensively this season due to how healthy we have been. You could argue Ford but he’s basically been in a time share with Nsheke the entire season. 

 

I know Coleman is strictly a safety but Marlowe, Johnson and Neal do offer some flexibility and I’d assume that’s how McDermott and Beane viewed it when constructing the roster. 
 

I’m almost positive we released EJ Gaines with an injury settlement after placing him on the IR before the season. If that’s the case, I don’t believe we could resign him even if we wanted to. 
 

Munnerlyn was somewhat puzzling to me, the consensus seemed to be that we would resign him at some point during the season but we never did. Maybe it was because we remained so healthy all year? 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

We'll see what happens in the game. Hopefully my concern is unfounded and we have no issues with depth. I say that seriously, not smugly. But if we end up seeing dynamic dudes flying past Siran Neal or similar, I'll be frustrated.

[junior]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I think he's solid but a huge injury risk. 

 

He's been fine this year, playing in all 16 games. 

 

 

11 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

Not sure what the TV broadcast showed with respect to the Wallace injury.  But it looked bad.  Non-contact, and he wouldn’t put weight on it as he left the field.  I couldn’t believe they didn’t get the cart for him.  I hope it’s not an Achilles, but that was my thought watching it live in the stadium yesterday. 

 

A lot of guys don't want to take the cart. He got onto it on the sidelines, though.

[BuffaloMatt]

Next Man UP! Its the playoffs. Eagles won SB with backups. This is when unknowns become known. The one who often becomes the hero started as the backup!