Week 17: NJ Jets at Buffalo Bills PostGame

[billsfan_34]

9 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

getting rid of special teams would solve these problems 

 

 

May as well at this point- the NFL all but destroyed them anyways. Return men don’t even have to catch the ball in the endzone anymore and down it- they simply let it hit the ground and the refs blow it dead. Human errors happen and a muff or mistake in the end zone could lead to a big play from the kick off team.

[T master]

18 hours ago, the skycap said:

Can Sweeney and Duke stay active for playoffs!!!

 

Please McD with sugar on top !!?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Some guys really took advantage of the opportunity today and others - Barkley, Kroft, Coleman, Bates - didn’t help their 20-21 roster chances.

 

That was fundamentally my thought.  I felt Foster and Kroft were given the chance to have a "coming out party" - to step up take over the game.  5 targets, 1 catch for 5 yds for Kroft.  4 targets, 0 catch for Foster.  Now I haven't gone and scored whether they were all catchable balls, but I know they weren't none of them catchable balls.  Now maybe Kroft is still playing on a pitch count or still hampered.  And he can (in theory) both catch and block which Sweeney can not (as of yet) and Knox is still developing at.  But Kroft didn't look good.

 

Bates was scary bad. Superficially it looks as though we kept him on potential and let a couple guys who are playing better right now go.  I hope he hits it hard this off season.

 

3 minutes ago, T master said:

Please McD with sugar on top !!?

 

*sigh* so who is inactive to allow this?  Keep in mind we struggled with pass protection against some of the teams we may face.  You want Sweeney blocking instead of Smith or Kroft?

[T master]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That was fundamentally my thought.  I felt Foster and Kroft were given the chance to have a "coming out party" - to step up take over the game.  5 targets, 1 catch for 5 yds for Kroft.  4 targets, 0 catch for Foster.  Now I haven't gone and scored whether they were all catchable balls, but I know they weren't none of them catchable balls.  Now maybe Kroft is still playing on a pitch count or still hampered.  And he can (in theory) both catch and block which Sweeney can not (as of yet) and Knox is still developing at.  But Kroft didn't look good.

 

Bates was scary bad. Superficially it looks as though we kept him on potential and let a couple guys who are playing better right now go.  I hope he hits it hard this off season.

 

 

*sigh* so who is inactive to allow this?  Keep in mind we struggled with pass protection against some of the teams we may face.  You want Sweeney blocking instead of Smith or Kroft?

 

Well has either of those 2 made a big difference in the offense ? Duke went over 100 yds with the second string QB & made some great catches, Sweeney could be a work in progress still but Duke could & has easily out perform Foster or Mckenzie to this point & has more ass to block with than Mckenzie . JMO 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, RochesterRob said:

  I look at coaches like school teachers of which many coached a sport.  They all have human biases which influences their decisions.  Does Daboll give preference to one player that clearly grades inferior to another player?  Most likely not.  But I would imagine in most situations that players probably grade closer to one another than we think which opens the door to personal preferences.  I'd like to think that Joe Fan can readily see the difference between two athletes but he does not spend the up close time to watch them in practice and the film room.

 

I was in response to your post "   Hopefully, this is the week where Daboll sets personal preferences aside and goes all out for the sake of winning.  Maybe the play today of Yeldon, Duke, Sweeney, etc. has raised Daboll's confidence in them that Daboll will buck his previous preferences in terms of personnel. "

 

My point was that Daboll isn't the one grading these guys every snap of every game and practice - that would be the position coaches.  Daboll also isn't the only one making roster decisions - McDermott has to balance the needs of the defense, offense, and ST.  It's pretty axiomatic that ST heavily influences the lower end of the starting roster.  Coaches also consider injuries.  If #1 or #2 go down, who could best fill in and run their routes?

 

So I think it's pretty "tin foil hat" to ascribe the decisions on who to start for #4 and #5 WR (heck even #3) to the offensive coordinator's "personal preferences" or to imply that he isn't going "all out" to win every week.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, T master said:

Well has either of those 2 made a big difference in the offense ? Duke went over 100 yds with the second string QB & made some great catches, Sweeney could be a work in progress still but Duke could & has easily out perform Foster or Mckenzie to this point & has more ass to block with than Mckenzie . JMO 

 

So you want to inactivate Foster and McKenzie in favor of Duke and Sweeney, is that what I'm hearing?

 

McKenzie is quietly the #3 WR (#4 target) on the team with a 69.2% catch rate.  2.6 targets and 1.8 receptions per game (would round to that).  That doesn't sound like a lot, but bear in mind we only pass an average of 32 attempts per game and the lion's share of the targets - 53% - go to Beasley, Brown, and Knox, rightly in my view.  McKensie has been used in the reverses and jet sweeps that were effective for us early this season, and has gradually expanded his route tree. 

 

I'm not sure that inactivating McKensie would be the right thing to do.  When he was inactive vs. the Eagles, I thought we missed him and the family of plays he brings.

 

Foster at this point seems to be playing for ST value (gunner) and for the possibility that if Brown went out he could (attempt to) replace him.

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That was fundamentally my thought.  I felt Foster and Kroft were given the chance to have a "coming out party" - to step up take over the game.  5 targets, 1 catch for 5 yds for Kroft.  4 targets, 0 catch for Foster.  Now I haven't gone and scored whether they were all catchable balls, but I know they weren't none of them catchable balls.  Now maybe Kroft is still playing on a pitch count or still hampered.  And he can (in theory) both catch and block which Sweeney can not (as of yet) and Knox is still developing at.  But Kroft didn't look good.

 

Bates was scary bad. Superficially it looks as though we kept him on potential and let a couple guys who are playing better right now go.  I hope he hits it hard this off season.

 

 

*sigh* so who is inactive to allow this?  Keep in mind we struggled with pass protection against some of the teams we may face.  You want Sweeney blocking instead of Smith or Kroft?

None of the throws to Foster were close to catchable. It has been bizarre this season -- I can't think of another player who was on the receiving end of such a high percentage of uncatchable throws as Foster in 2019.  

[YoloinOhio]

11 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

A few observations about the jets game:

 

1) we ran a ton of play action today— something we seem to not do as much with JA. Seemed like it really opened up the middle of the field with Duke and Sweeney catching balls. Am hoping we see more of that next week.

 

2) Barkley doesn’t have the arm, so he makes

up for it by releasing quicker. This caused all kinds of problems today with receivers not out of their breaks or looking back for the ball yet when the ball was right on them. 

 

3) Not to beat a dead horse, but Duke was like a man among boys out there. He made good catches and got good YAC. He also got himself open, unlike Foster. 

It’s a good point that Josh and Matt are such different QBs in so many ways... has to be tough to adjust. Even though a lot of the backup WRs must practice with barkley. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

None of the throws to Foster were close to catchable. It has been bizarre this season -- I can't think of another player who was on the receiving end of such a high percentage of uncatchable throws as Foster in 2019.  

 

Thanks

 

3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

It’s a good point that Josh and Matt are such different QBs in so many ways... has to be tough to adjust. Even though a lot of the backup WRs must practice with barkley. 

 

That's probably one reason that Duke was able to have such a big day with Barkley.  They have been practicing together for weeks.

[Dan]

22 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

None of the throws to Foster were close to catchable. It has been bizarre this season -- I can't think of another player who was on the receiving end of such a high percentage of uncatchable throws as Foster in 2019.  

That's my problem with Foster.  After spending an entire season waiting for him to show up... He just hasn't.  None of the passes thrown his way seem catchable.  Why is that?  Whether its him or the QBs or the defenses or whatever... I'm not sure it matters.   Unless he's blowing up special teams, which I'm not sure I can say, why is he out there every week?  

 

IMO, WR is still one of our biggest needs this off season. And a big part of that is because Foster has disappeared all season.  I would be very hesitant to make ..any.. changes going into the playoffs.  But, to my untrained eye, I just don't see how dropping him in favor of pretty much anyone else would make our inconsistent offense any worse.

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So you want to inactivate Foster and McKenzie in favor of Duke and Sweeney, is that what I'm hearing?

 

McKenzie is quietly the #3 WR (#4 target) on the team with a 69.2% catch rate.  2.6 targets and 1.8 receptions per game (would round to that).  That doesn't sound like a lot, but bear in mind we only pass an average of 32 attempts per game and the lion's share of the targets - 53% - go to Beasley, Brown, and Knox, rightly in my view.  McKensie has been used in the reverses and jet sweeps that were effective for us early this season, and has gradually expanded his route tree. 

 

I'm not sure that inactivating McKensie would be the right thing to do.  When he was inactive vs. the Eagles, I thought we missed him and the family of plays he brings.

 

Foster at this point seems to be playing for ST value (gunner) and for the possibility that if Brown went out he could (attempt to) replace him.

 

Spot on with the Special Teams dual role for Foster. I think that is probably the only thing holding Duke back from the active roster.

 

I keep forgetting about that and the fact that McD places an emphasis on ST play. Watching Foster not even turn to look for the ball on that seam route yesterday kind of make the gears click as to why perhaps he struggles staying on the starting roster. He just may be a really bad route runner.

 

There may be a loyalty thing with Gore, but I have to say that Yeldon seemed to offer more options and make more positive yards. An offseason need for this team is that bigger back that can bang out yards and make the first guy miss or break a few arm tackles. May be that rugby kid on the practice squad - who knows, but we need that change of pace running back to be more effective than Gore has been as the miles seem to be catching up to him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Freddie's Dead]

Man, does JA look good in that Braves throwback or what?  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, WideNine said:

I keep forgetting about that and the fact that McD places an emphasis on ST play. Watching Foster not even turn to look for the ball on that seam route yesterday kind of make the gears click as to why perhaps he struggles staying on the starting roster. He just may be a really bad route runner.

 

He is certainly bad at tracking the ball in the air and adjusting.  I think also there may be something he put on film that lets him get neutralized on the line - either that or maybe his injuries lost him a step.

 

9 minutes ago, WideNine said:

There may be a loyalty thing with Gore, but I have to say that Yeldon seemed to offer more options and make more positive yards.

 

And yet - Gore was 6 attempts for 26 yds yesterday (4.3 ypc); Yeldon was 7 for 18 (2.6 ypc).

It may be that some of Yeldon's attempts were with the JV OL.  But there it is.

[WideNine]

20 hours ago, Locomark said:

My observations are exactly what I expected out of a pseudo preseason game. Playing your backups against another team’s first stringers should rarely yield a win. 

 

Random observations of the game:

 

We continue to show that we do not have RB depth as Yeldon is a catch only back who runs way too upright.

 

Duke running around celebrating every 8 yard catch is ridiculous to me. However, he clearly showed there is no reason why we should ever dress Foster again ( find a new gunner McD ). 

 

McKenzie makes plays whenever he is given the chance and surprising dishes out some hits for a little guy. Loved him playing defense.

 

Barkley’s mistakes cost us the game. He looked poor in timing, decisions, and basic execution at times. I am sure some of it was the surrounding cast but I hope we find a better backup next year. 

 

if we had our back 7 out there we would have had at least 2-3 more picks today. 

 

Tommy Sweeney gets open a lot but he literally doesn’t block anyone and he runs like Lee Smith. I didn’t think that was possible. He looks like the next Nick O’Leary / Mark Brammar to me. 

 

Frank looked fresh today. I had hoped he had been saving his energy for the playoffs and today it certainly looked that way. 

 

Regardless of all the negatives, who cares because today was a practice game to get guys reps. BRING ON HOUSTON. 

 

 

 

I give our smurf core a hard time, but McKenzie is a baller. Daboll will keep him on the active roster for no other reason than teams have to respect the jet sweep and defend sideline to sideline and worry about containing the edges over rushing Allen with abandon.

 

He also filled in at DB yesterday I think when Taron Johnson got dinged and had to come out for a few reps yesterday so a multi-talented kid willing to do whatever the coaches ask.

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by WideNine

[LABILLBACKER]

6 hours ago, CNYfan said:

I thought 94 had a nice game.  

 

Back-up QB is a need; do we need a Vet with Josh going into his 3rd year, or can we go to a developmental asset?

 

The Duke stuff is overblown I think, he dropped a pass, or two, and looked slow.   

 

Neal played fairly well, I thought.

 

Houston

>He dropped 1 ball

>He did not look slow

>Had 108 yards breaking tackles

I don't see Brown or Beasley breaking tackles. It's so adorable how people want to ignore his skills. 

[WideNine]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

He is certainly bad at tracking the ball in the air and adjusting.  I think also there may be something he put on film that lets him get neutralized on the line - either that or maybe his injuries lost him a step.

 

 

And yet - Gore was 6 attempts for 26 yds yesterday (4.3 ypc); Yeldon was 7 for 18 (2.6 ypc).

It may be that some of Yeldon's attempts were with the JV OL.  But there it is.

 

With Yeldon I was also considering how he took some of those swing and dump passes and was pretty creative making guys miss.

 

We need more out of that second running back position either way. Get're done Beane. Speaking of Beane, I could swear I saw him jawing it up with the Jets all-pro safety Jamal Adams during pre-game warm-ups. Was thinking, "that our GM - always on the lookout for talent".

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

May as well at this point- the NFL all but destroyed them anyways. Return men don’t even have to catch the ball in the endzone anymore and down it- they simply let it hit the ground and the refs blow it dead. Human errors happen and a muff or mistake in the end zone could lead to a big play from the kick off team.

I agree. Special team play is as dead as the dinosaurs. Nobody returns kickoffs or punts anymore. Mostly fair catches or touchbacks. Just stick the ball on the 25 and be done with it.  And while you're at it NFL, let all 53 players be active every week. Another stupid rule.

[GG]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

None of the throws to Foster were close to catchable. It has been bizarre this season -- I can't think of another player who was on the receiving end of such a high percentage of uncatchable throws as Foster in 2019.  

 

That is correct. 

 

But a key takeaway is that the passes weren't close from 2 separate QBs, which should give more room for questions. 

 

Another takeaway is that Foster didn't have nearly the separation you'd expect from the fastest guy on the team.   Yet, the guy who is slightly faster than molasses was usually at least 1-2 yards from the covering DB. 

[dave mcbride]

11 minutes ago, GG said:

 

That is correct. 

 

But a key takeaway is that the passes weren't close from 2 separate QBs, which should give more room for questions. 

 

Another takeaway is that Foster didn't have nearly the separation you'd expect from the fastest guy on the team.   Yet, the guy who is slightly faster than molasses was usually at least 1-2 yards from the covering DB. 

I think it's because they throw so many go routes to him, and defenses mostly defend against that. He was good last year, so I really have no idea who is to blame this year. 

Edited December 30, 2019 by dave mcbride

[tcampbell104]

17 hours ago, Do The Reich Thing said:

Barkley is not Reich lol

when reich got his chance to be a starter in carolina he stunk something awful