Tre/Allen for Mahomes Outcome

[Phil The Thrill]

6 hours ago, Utah John said:

If the Bills had drafted Mahomes, he would have struggled.  It wasn't the curse, it was the lack of skill players and a crappy O line and a culture of losing.  He has excelled in KC partly because of his enormous talent but also because he had the right coach, a great collection of offensive talent, and a rookie year where he could just watch and learn.  A perfect situation for him to blossom.  He wouldn't have had that in Buffalo.

I honestly believe that Mahomes went to the perfect situation.  
 

If you look at his draft reviews in 2017, many were saying that he was a raw prospect and were indifferent on whether KC overdrafted him.  Considering the plan was to sit him behind Alex Smith, there was good reason that KC get he needed development as well.  

 

He had the advantage to sit behind a good QB mentor, play for a HC who always coaches up QB’s, and have a talented roster of skill players around him.  Plus the luxury of being able to watch for an entire season - how often does that happen?
 

In 2017, Rick Dennison would have been his OC, Tyrod Taylor would be his mentor QB, and his supporting WR cast would consist of Zay Jones, Jordan Matthews and Deonte Thompson.  Oh and Charles Clay at TE.  Plus he’d be playing for a defensive-minded coach, that didn’t have the type of experience or track record that Reid has.

 

So I’ve always thought it’s very hard to evaluate when there are so many variables that come into play. 

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

This is a fair take. There are people who believe Mahomes would have SUCKED under the circumstances in Buffalo. I don't think they've watched him play. He wouldn't be AS good. No doubt about that. But he's an elite QB. Elite QB's find a way.

 

 

I like Allen.    I hope Allen/Jackson/Mahomes turns into Elway/Kelly/Marino part 2.

 

But Allen wasn't part of that trade...........so the take by the OP and @billspro and most others in this thread are just flat out wrong.

 

They got White and Edmunds out of the Mahomes deal.    

 

Bills 2018 + Cordy Glenn + Sammy Watkins = Josh Allen.    

 

If people want to say "well they wouldn't have picked Josh if they had Mahomes"..........sure..........but it's still another season and totally separate first round pick and other capital.

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by BADOLBILZ

[LSHMEAB]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I like Allen.    I hope Allen/Jackson/Mahomes turns into Elway/Kelly/Marino part 2.

 

But Allen wasn't part of that trade...........so the take by @billspro and most others in this thread are just flat out wrong.

 

They got White and Edmunds out of the Mahomes deal.    

 

Bills 2018 + Cordy Glenn + Sammy Watkins = Josh Allen.    

 

If people want to say "well they wouldn't have picked Josh if they had Mahomes"..........sure..........but it's still another season and totally separate first round pick and other capital.

 

I understand the nuance and that the question is flawed. Just gotten so used to the detail deficient premise that I was responding as if it were truly a Mahomes vs White/Allen trade.

 

The answer is obviously going to come down to what Allen's able to accomplish. If he becomes a top 10 QB, no issues. I would say it's pretty unlikely he'll ever be as good as Mahomes, but if he's legit, it's fine.

Edited December 28, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[K-9]

[BADOLBILZ]

Just now, K-9 said:

 

 

He's just resting his eyes,  K-9.

 

(Get up Josh!)

[Sherlock Holmes]

8 hours ago, NewEra said:

It’s not a disaster.  There isn’t a chief fan in the world that would take that trade back.  There are many Bills fans that would.  I’m as big a Tre and JA fan as there is, but Mahomes may eventually be the best QB ever.  Emphasis on “may eventually be”

Josh Allen may eventually be the best QB ever...

[BillsfaninSB]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

False.

 

Not sure why this continues to be perpetuated but Allen was not acquired with any capital from that trade.

 

The Bills netted Tre White and Tremaine Edmunds from the trade that netted the Chiefs Patrick Mahomes.

 

Allen was acquired with the pick netted after 2 trade ups from the Bills own 2018 first rounder.     They used Cordy Glenn(to Cinci) in a pre-draft trade and then on draft day the pick acquired from the Rams for Sammy Watkins.   

 

 

You are right.  It has been stated many times on this forum that trade got them Josh.    I assumed it was correct. 

 

However, the trade did get them Dawkins which made Glenn expendable. 

[Mike in Horseheads]

Is Tre/Allen a computer game?

[BillsVet]

2 hours ago, BuffaloMatt said:

If Bills would have drafted Mahomes he would have sucked. The curse wasn't broken yet. 

 

QB's tend to break so called "curses."  

 

[Boatdrinks]

41 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Josh Allen may eventually be the best QB ever...

Perhaps. Most would say Pat Mahomes has a lot better chance of being that player, and I would agree with them. 

[Zerovoltz]

8 hours ago, Utah John said:

If the Bills had drafted Mahomes, he would have struggled.  It wasn't the curse, it was the lack of skill players and a crappy O line and a culture of losing.  He has excelled in KC partly because of his enormous talent but also because he had the right coach, a great collection of offensive talent, and a rookie year where he could just watch and learn.  A perfect situation for him to blossom.  He wouldn't have had that in Buffalo.

 

This narrative is kind of lazy.  Mahomes played on a Texas Tech team with one WR who was drafted.  (kiki Coutee) None of his horrible O line are even on an NFL practice squad,  He produced at a very high level with very low level talent around him his whole career.  Certainly KC has better players in place than what Buffalo had at the time, but to say Mahomes couldn't have operated at a high level in Buffalo isn't supported by Mahomes time in college

 

7 hours ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

Damn....I thought the Mahomes talk ended when Lamar Jackson started setting the world on fire.

 

....When trailing by 2 scores or more.....QB Rating:

 

Mahomes 112

Lamar, 60

 

You get out to a two score lead and ONE of these guys suddenly becomes pretty ordinary.  Trick is getting out to a lead.  Mahomes is 2-0 VS Lamar.

 

6 hours ago, Foxx said:

You may ask yourself
What is that beautiful house?
You may ask yourself
Where does that highway go to?
And you may ask yourself
Am I right? Am I wrong?
And you may say yourself
"My God! What have I done?"

 

Quoted this post just because I live that song.  Same as it ever was!

 

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

False.

 

Not sure why this continues to be perpetuated but Allen was not acquired with any capital from that trade.

 

The Bills netted Tre White and Tremaine Edmunds from the trade that netted the Chiefs Patrick Mahomes.

 

Allen was acquired with the pick netted after 2 trade ups from the Bills own 2018 first rounder.     They used Cordy Glenn(to Cinci) in a pre-draft trade and then on draft day the pick acquired from the Rams for Sammy Watkins.   

 

 

 

THIS.  Granted, the idea was that McDermott simply wasn't going to allow a lame duck GM to draft his QBOTF ...and McD had only been on the job a month...is a D sided coach and didn't have the time or the area of expertise to pick a QB in 2017....he wanted to wait until the crop of 18 AND have the new GM in place to work wiht on that very important pick.  It's just the circumstances that existed at the time.  You can not fault McD...and certainly not Beane.  If anything, the cumbersome leadership changes at coach and GM the Pegulas undertook in 2017 set up circumstances that simply weren't conducive to drafting a QB in 2017.  In that sense the trade was "good" because the Bills got capital and made productive use of it.  They weren't taking a QB period in 2017.

 

The TRADE isn't a bad trade.....it should be viewed entirely separately from the circumstances.  so....

1.  The ownership created circumstances that set up the draft where there wasn't going to be a QB taken.....so GIVEN THAT YOU AREN'T going QB....then you are operating with the idea of what is the best thing you can do at 10....and that was to trade back for capital, and still get a good player.  The trade is actually and A+ given the conditions it was made under.

[CommonCents]

Outside of your season long predictions you have contributed some good thoughts around here.

 

I agree with the circumstances and the A+ grade on the draft day trade.

 

With that said, hopefully the Pegulas look at Mahomes and now understand that they can never allow a lame duck GM to linger around for a draft. 

[rayray808]

Tre and Tremaine for Mahommes = bad deal

 

Tre and Tremaine for Mahomes and then use other assets to grab Josh Allen? YES

 

NO CHANCE Mahomes has a MVP year with the historically bad offense we had last year. This year? Yes he would have scored more than 17 points but our defense wouldn’t be what it is today.

 

Both teams won short term, and if Josh can make small improvements both teams will win long term 

Edited December 28, 2019 by rayray808

[without a drought]

 dead horses are such easy targets,  dead horse's don't run away,  dead horses don't even put up a fight. 

 

I'm thinking of getting a couple.

[Da webster guy]

Well compared to Cinci who picked John Ross before us instead of Mahomes, the fact that we at least got another 1st rounder is huge.

Bengals took a bust WR and passed on a franchise changing MVP QB.  And one has to assume KC offered the same deal to Cinci and they still said no.  (If u are gonna offer a deal to a 10th spot you'd certainly offer at least the same deal it to anyone 9,8,7,6 etc)

10 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Nice thread...

 

We haven’t debated this enough..

 

And here we are, 78 replies and 2500 views in, proving you wrong....

[Dr.Sack]

White & Allen > Mahomes. Mahomes is not going to be around long & his knees & gait look like my grandma’s. No way that dude is around in 10 years. He’s injury prone.

[Aussie Joe]

25 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

 

And here we are, 78 replies and 2500 views in, proving you wrong....

Glad you are enjoying it ( again..)

 

I prefer to focus on the games this time of the year.., particularly when my team is in the playoffs..

[auburnbillsbacker]

8 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said:

Because you say?

 

I say the Bills win it.

Mahomes will likely be in the hall of fame at the most important position in team sports.  That trumps an All Pro CB and a solid QB.  

[JoPoy88]

4 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

White & Allen > Mahomes. Mahomes is not going to be around long & his knees & gait look like my grandma’s. No way that dude is around in 10 years. He’s injury prone.

You aren’t serious with this comment are you? Never seen Mahomes play huh. That’s okay.

[JMF2006]

4 hours ago, without a drought said:

 dead horses are such easy targets,  dead horse's don't run away,  dead horses don't even put up a fight. 

 

I'm thinking of getting a couple.

 

They start to smell after a while

 

BTW I like the way things turned out for the Bills there is no guarantee that Mahomes turns out the way he did with Buffalos lack of talent on offence.

 

We must remember all the weapons noodle arm Alex Smith had at his disposal and that PM walked into a stacked team ready to win.

Edited December 28, 2019 by JMF2006