In defense of defense (and running, too)

[oldmanfan]

There have been more than a few posts recently about the Bills offense, how they are not playing "exciting" football, how the lack of X number of yards passing is so terrible, how the young QB can't be trusted to become a true franchise guy unless he throws for X number of yards, etc., etc., etc.

 

I want to counter that by speaking to what I consider exciting football.   As you can tell from my user name, I am old school.  I believe that, since the time the game of football was invented,  football was intended to be physical.  To this day, football games are won by imposing your will physically on your opponent.  Which is why I love good defense.  I find well executed defense exciting.  When I see someone like an Edmunds or Milano get into the hole and bury a ball carrier, that's exciting (which is why last game when they didn't get that done well made the game less exciting).  When I see Phillips or Oliver shed a blocker and bury a guy at the LOS, that's exciting.  Or when a QB goes down to a well executed pass rush or blitz, that's exciting.  I believe that when you have a strong defense, it ensures you will always have a shot in games.  You won't ever get blown out, and you give your offense and special teams the opportunity to make plays.  A well executed defensive play, a great open field tackle, those to me are as exciting as hitting a long pass.  Because to me that's the essence of football.

 

I was there at the Rockpile the day we won our first AFL championship.  You can go through all the OJ runs, all the Super Bowl years, all the offensive explosions, but to me the signature play in the history of the Buffalo Bills will always be the Hit Heard Round the World.  The Bills AFL championship teams had the best defense of that generation, I believe, including the NFL teams.  And whet they shut out the Chargers on the road in '65 to win their second championship?  Damned exciting. 

 

No, what about running the ball?  Again, that's about physically dominating your opponent at the LOS, what football is meant to be about.  Someone (you probably can guess who) made the absurd statement recently that watching OJ wasn't "exciting".   I had seasons with my parents during the OJ era, and to watch that man run?  To this day watching him do his thing live was the most exciting thing I've ever seen on a football field.  And he could not have done that without the Electric Company.  To watch guys like Joe D and Reggie just dominate their opponents, and open holes?  Exciting to be sure.  Real honest to God football.  Over the years we've had the opportunity to watch some great runners in Bills uniforms.  Cookie back in the day with Bemiller and Barber and the boys paving the way.  Joe Cribbs.  Travis Henry.  And of course Thurman running behind Hull and Ritcher and the boys.  It's been a privilege to watch that kind of football.

 

So to me, watching this season, watching Josh Allen take off, or fighting like hell to get that one yard on the fourth and 1 last game?  That to me is exciting football.  Watching Singletary burst through a crack in the line to pick up yards?  Exciting.  That's what football is all about.  That and keeping the other guy from doing the same thing.

 

I have nothing against passing.  I understand the rules have been altered over the years to favor passing and I, like I'm sure everyone else did,  jumped up and cheered when we hit the long pass to Brown last game.   But hitting that long pass didn't ultimately win the game for us.  What has won 10 games for this team this season has been what I consider exciting football:  strong defense, good running game, and a young QB that has cut down on mistakes and can make plays not only with his legs but in crunch time with his arm.  And you want to talk exciting?  What is more exciting than winning a close game in the fourth quarter, a game where your defense has kept you in it and allowed you to win in the end? 

 

So give me defense.  Give me running.  And as our young QB continues to develop, give me more passing, sure.  So long as we are not piling up yardage because our defense has fallen apart and we are playing catch up all day.  Give me a strong defense, coupled with the ability to run the ball successfully and a passing game to complement those, and I'll show you a successful team.  A team with a 10-5 record and that made the playoffs  A team that can take on all comers.  That's my definition of exciting football.   I don't intend to post threads after thread, or hijack others, to make my point.  I just wanted to express it one time here. 

[Haslett_Stomp]

To quote "the Tuna" (Parcells for those who don't get the reference), "Defense wins championships." 

[Seasons1992]

46 minutes ago, Haslett_Stomp said:

To quote "the Tuna" (Parcells for those who don't get the reference), "Defense wins championships." 

 

Screw him AND his protege coach of *NE:  http://thinlinecollective.com/2015/08/tbt-*****-plays-still-alive-and-kicking/

 

Stay classy, Tuna.

[KD in CA]

Balanced teams that can do everything when necessary win championships.  Sooner or later you'll need to outscore your opponent in a shootout, or deal with a defense that stops the run....or relentlessly rushes the passer.

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, KD in CA said:

Balanced teams that can do everything when necessary win championships.  Sooner or later you'll need to outscore your opponent in a shootout, or deal with a defense that stops the run....or relentlessly rushes the passer.

 

 

 

And sometimes you n eed to be able to run out the clock on an opponent.  The Falcons unwillingness or inability to do so cost them a championship.  

[KD in CA]

3 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

And sometimes you n eed to be able to run out the clock on an opponent.  The Falcons unwillingness or inability to do so cost them a championship.  

 

Still mind boggling how they blew that game.  A FG puts the game out of reach and instead Ryan takes a sack on 3d down.  

 

We should be talking about Brady's 5 SB losses.

 

 

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Running the football is great....when it's working. But When it's not and you consistently try to pound it into a wall while going 3 and out, the philosophy gets tiresome.... and in the process your taking the ball out of your best playmaker in Josh Allen. 

 

As we saw in the second half against NE*.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by KD in CA

[Socal-805]

 

 

 

Nice write up.

 

Buffalo is going to need to improve in the passing game (Allen) if they are going to try and compete with the best teams:  IMO.

 

27th in passing yards and 20th in points scored is not going to get it done...  UNLESS they become ELITE running the ball.

 

they are

 

11th in  YARDS / CARRY.

17th in RUSHING TDS.

 

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

On 12/27/2019 at 2:02 PM, Socal-805 said:

 

 

 

Nice write up.

 

Buffalo is going to need to improve in the passing game (Allen) if they are going to try and compete with the best teams:  IMO.

 

27th in passing yards and 20th in points scored is not going to get it done...  UNLESS they become ELITE running the ball.

 

they are

 

11th in  YARDS / CARRY.

17th in RUSHING TDS.

 

 

 

 

Gotta remember those stats are a bit funky when you factor in how few touches we were giving singletary to start the year.  He also missed a few games.  Gore was fine to start the year, but im not sure of a few things.  He may have lost a bit of gas here at the end of the year, or he simply doesn't work as a change of pace back.  He seems to hammer you until you make a mistake and then he makes you pay.  His YPC has been atrocious the last few games, and it's got to be one of those things.  Snaps are down, and so is his overall effectiveness.

[NewEra]

Thanks.  Nice write up.  I’m the similar as the run game has always been my favorite aspect of football.  Starting with Joe Cribbs, running backs making people miss or stiff arming was the most exciting aspect of the game.  I was a Nebraska fan growing up because of their run game.

 

that being said, I only like a run game if it’s good.  Last season, we watched what was among the worst run games in the history of football.  The fault of that was on many.  Coaching, Castillo, OL talent, Castillo, scheme, Castillo, Castillo and lastly...Castillo. It was painful to watch and made me sad.  Josh allen made our running stats look not so bad when our run game was actually so so so bad.  
 

thankfully Castillo is gone.  His replacement has been great.  We have upgraded at multiple positions along the line.  Our 3rd rd rb looks dynamic making people miss in space and effective up the middle (yet we give the ball to gore in this situation).  While we are much improved, we still need better offensive lineman and play calling.  We cannot impose our will running the ball.  We have shown we cannot pound the rock to close out a game (other than Tennessee).  
 

It’s nearly impossible to go from worst to first running the ball.  We went from worst to middle of the pack imo.  With another offseason, I expect a better OL to create holes and improved WRs to force the defense play us honest.  I really hope we continue to use resources on bolstering the OL. I wouldn’t mind if we moved in from Dawkins (I don’t think he’s worth even close to the money he’s going to get paid the following year) and added a new pair of bookends for Allen to go with Ford, Morse and Feliciano inside. 

[VW82]

Good post OMF. I'd also add that Buffalo's climate makes having a good defense and run game all the more important. Sadly we're never in the playoffs so we don't get to test this theory but running the ball and controlling the clock travels well in poor weather. I'm perfectly fine with this identity; in fact, I'm just happy that the Bills finally have an identity. I'd rather we continue to double down on this and bring Allen along slowly.

[Billsfan1972]

And this is the problem with waxing nostalgic, you forget the bad.  OJ was great to watch (and I was watching that 2003 yard season), but outside the record overall I'm not so sure.

 

However they went 9-5, missed the playoffs &  averaged under 12 passes a game (high water mark was 169).....  In 12 of 14 they were under 100.....  One game they had 1 net yard passing.  It was all about the Electric Company & OJ.

 

Yep I loved that year, but in retrospect it was beyond boring (if not for OJ).

 

Yep we all appreciate great defensive plays & hard legal hits, but this is 2019 & you can not hang your hat on it.

 

You really must hate Brees, Rogers & Brady.  

 

I now see why 300 yards passing is so upsetting to you.

 

BTW last team not to complete a pass????  Buffalo 1974 (btw Joe Namath completed 2 & the Bills won).

Edited December 28, 2019 by Billsfan1972

[oldmanfan]

10 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And this is the problem with waxing nostalgic, you forget the bad.  OJ was great to watch (and I was watching that 2000 yard season.

 

However they went 9-5, missed the playoffs &  averaged under 12 passes a game (high water mark was 169).....  In 12 of 14 they were under 100.....  One game they had 1.

 

Yep I loved that year, but in retrospect it was beyond boring (if not for OJ).

 

I can't believe I was a Joe Ferguson fan.

 

Yep we all appreciate great defensive plays & hard legal hits, but this is 2019 & you can not hang your hat on it.

 

You really must hate Brees, Rogers & Brady.  

 

I now see why 300 yards passing is so upsetting to you.

 

BTW last team not to complete a pass????  Buffalo 1974 (btw Joe Namath completed 2 & the Bills won).

And there you go.  Hijacking threads  with your same old crap. 

 

You are not the the only person on this board, your opinion is not the only one that matters around here, and the only thing upsetting to me about 300 yards passing is that you continue to latch onto that as if it means anything when literally dozens of people have pointed out it means nothing in terms of wins and losses.

 

I love watching good defense and running.  Teams that do those well are generally successful.  And football is about winning games.  It is not to meet your definition of entertainment.  I’ve said before and will say again if you want to be entertained go to a movie.  The rest of us want the Bills to win.

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, dneveu said:

 

Gotta remember those stats are a bit funky when you factor in how few touches we were giving singletary to start the year.  He also missed a few games.  Gore was fine to start the year, but im not sure of a few things.  He may have lost a bit of gas here at the end of the year, or he simply doesn't work as a change of pace back.  He seems to hammer you until you make a mistake and then he makes you pay.  His YPC has been atrocious the last few games, and it's got to be one of those things.  Snaps are down, and so is his overall effectiveness.

 

Also, there are some personnel groupings that Daboll likes to roll out that telegraph the run plays for Gore.

 

Roberts out wide, he is a good blocker on the edge, it is a stretch or sweep play with Gore that is easily diagnosed and blown up. Or our jumbo package that clearly flags a dive play.

 

We do not have the elite offensive line that can line up clearly to run the ball and impose our will against opposing teams.

 

Our running plays will always work better if there are a few read or passing options out of the same formation.

 

Our drives stall because our personnel packages tell the defense what we are likely to run, and we lack creative options that can be run out of those personnel packages. Daboll needs to up his game 

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by WideNine

[oldmanfan]

I agree Daboll sometimes oversimplifies and telegraphs things too much.  I’d love to know what percentage of plays are as called vs. changed by Allen at the line. 

[Billsfan1972]

Sorry I p!$$ed on your corn flakes....?  I will not respond further to this thread & you can have your cathartic kumbaya moment, along with those who want to join you.

 

This is 2019, the offense is not good enough thanks to the coaching & play calling by McD & Daboll.

 

We all appreciate great defense, but have to also understand that it is offense that scores the points that decide 90% of NFL games & can't keep playing offensive football like it is the 1970's in 2019.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Billsfan1972

[GunnerBill]

Bills fans love running. Plus ca change. 

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Bills fans love running. Plus ca change. 

 

 

I don't know......

 

There was very little respect for that incredible ground game the Bills had in 2015-2016.

[Don Otreply]

Nice read you old fart, ?

could not have said it better my self.  

You are so right, great football is what you described, that blend of defense, running, and passing is what creates excitement. 

 

Go Bills!!!

 

[ComradeKayAdams]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I don't know......

 

There was very little respect for that incredible ground game the Bills had in 2015-2016.

 

People who know football had respect for what Greg Roman was building with Taylor, McCoy, and Williams/Gillislee. Taylor's passing limitations may have ultimately doomed them, but those teams could have done some damage in the AFC if Rex Ryan had put in the proper effort with all that defensive talent.

 

Interestingly enough, the Buffalo Bills have almost always been focused primarily on a strong running game and a strong defense. When were the exceptions? The early 90's? 2002 Bledsoe? Fitzmagic years? Any other years I missed?

 

I prefer the strong defense + strong running game first model for multiple reasons:

 

1. It's (subjectively) more exciting to watch. Every play has proportionally more importance when you get into field position battles.

2. It diminishes the value of any singular position (i.e., the QB). One bad injury to your QB shouldn't send all the effort and all the hopes you had for the season down the drain.

3. Works better on the road and in bad weather.

[SinceThe70s]

6 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

 

Yep I loved that year, but in retrospect it was beyond boring 

 

 

Just curious how many years it took for you to go from loving a season of football to realizing how bored you actually were that year. 1973, right? Over 45 years go? When did you have your epiphany?

 

And how can I be sure that at some point in the future your narrative won't flip and the 2019 that you find so offensive won't become your most beloved memory?