Let's for a minute flip the Offense & Defense.... Where would the Bills be?

[Rc2catch]

3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And if you are right, then the issue is Allen is not the QB for the team or the future (as we see Tennessee has decided with Mariotta).  I have banged the same drum continually that the Bills do need to open up the offense primarily because the future is Allen & while I'm convinced he is a great QB, maybe I wrong & Daboll & the offense is covering up for him & that will lead to failure in the future.

 

Once again I’ll use Winston for example. They have clearly opened up the playbook for him and exposed him his first 4 years. Has that made him better or worse? Is the team better or worse? They have Evans Godwin and Howard and sling it all over. Has that helped Winston progress into a better quarterback? 
They have had 2 separate coaches and Arians obviously isn’t that bad at calling an offense, yet both coaches got about the same results. Is that the approach you want for the young quarterback? We can’t win games unless you are perfect passing the ball because the defense and running game are not going to keep us in it. 
 

[Billsfan1972]

2 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I am all for this ride or die approach next year.  Right now, I want to see how far they can go doing what they have been doing. I don't think the playoffs is the time to redefine our entire offensive identity. 

 

Next year, it will be time. JA will have had some time with the guys around him; he will have been in the league for two years; he will have seen every defensive formation available. Next year, he needs to pull it together. I have zero interest in the coaching staff finding ways to protect him. He needs to take the big leap.  I think he will, I truly do. 

And I too hope it is....  I just wanted top see them open it up more this year & the 17 points that the coach seems happy with drives me nuts.  Pedal to the metal......

[Numark3]

Good troll attempt, but too long-winded and rambly to be effective.  

[Billsfan1972]

6 minutes ago, Putin said:

 

You pick a Baltimore game to make your point ? How well did Houston’s offense performed against Baltimore ? How many points have they scored ? 

 

The Bills were at home & let Baltimore's defense dictate the game.  Yes I expected more then 250 yards (209 net).....

Edited December 27, 2019 by Billsfan1972

[Putin]

23 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

The Bills were at home & let Baltimore's defense dictate the game.  Yes I expected more then 250 yards (209 net).....

How many passing yards did the MVP mr L Jackson had against our defense? 

My point is that Baltimore won this game in the similar  way that we have been winning  , 

playing good defense and being efficient on offense , 

but keep on criticizing the OC , Josh Allen etc... 

[LABILLBACKER]

McDermott is too conservative to ever allow his offense to be top 5. It's not even a realistic hypothetical?

[Rc2catch]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Do you watch the Bucs? 

 

Winstons a turnover machine.... the reason they won't be going to the playoffs.

That was kind of my point. 
They opened up the playbook and put the game on him in his 4 years and even though he has 300-400 yard games they are not successful. That’s what it sounds like the OP wants. Regardless of development just put the game on Allen sink or swim like Tampa did to Winston regardless of game flow. 
 

I wasn’t using them as a successful comparison. He keeps referencing Kansas City and other high powered offenses that are successful airing it out but he conveniently leaves out bad teams and teams who ruined their quarterbacks progress by putting too much on them too soon. 

[Billsfan1972]

4 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

That was kind of my point. 
They opened up the playbook and put the game on him in his 4 years and even though he has 300-400 yard games they are not successful. That’s what it sounds like the OP wants. Regardless of development just put the game on Allen sink or swim like Tampa did to Winston regardless of game flow. 
 

I wasn’t using them as a successful comparison. He keeps referencing Kansas City and other high powered offenses that are successful airing it out but he conveniently leaves out bad teams and teams who ruined their quarterbacks progress by putting too much on them too soon. 

Again you are wrong.  What I want to see is what the Bills have in Josh Allen.  I have no idea based on the play calling & how they run the offense.  

 

Next year a tougher schedule & pretend the defense is not top 3, but 8th-12th & Allen throws more & is Jameis Winston & a turnover machine, then what?

 

There were plenty of games the Bills could have been more aggressive & chose not to (7 games under 200 yards passing. 

[whatdrought]

15 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

The point is there would too be a different perception of the team and it would be further ahead in my estimations.  

 

What's interesting is seeing the leaps KC, LA Rams, Baltimore & others can do with creative offensive minds.  

 

And by the way with a top three offense & being 100% sure of the QB going forward they'd be more fun to watch (except for those still mired in 60's football), attract free agents & yep national exposure too.....

 

Oops but that's not the Buffalo way.

 

 

This is idiotic. 

[Cruiserplayer]

The Bills score an average of 20.5 points per game while allowing 16.4. The difference being 4.1 ppg.  The number 5 scoring offense puts up 27.7. The fifth worst D allows 27.4. A margin of 0.3 points. 

[Mike in Horseheads]

4 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

lets pretend?

 

the obsession with 300 yd games, lives on.

If Barkley throws for 300 Sunday the nuts here will go crazy

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

17 minutes ago, Cruiserplayer said:

The Bills score an average of 20.5 points per game while allowing 16.4. The difference being 4.1 ppg.  The number 5 scoring offense puts up 27.7. The fifth worst D allows 27.4. A margin of 0.3 points. 

 

That is pretty compelling. 

[Rc2catch]

3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again you are wrong.  What I want to see is what the Bills have in Josh Allen.  I have no idea based on the play calling & how they run the offense.  

 

Next year a tougher schedule & pretend the defense is not top 3, but 8th-12th & Allen throws more & is Jameis Winston & a turnover machine, then what?

 

There were plenty of games the Bills could have been more aggressive & chose not to (7 games under 200 yards passing. 

Why does it matter? There’s lots of ways to win football games. Everyone is judged off wins and losses and the postseason. Not stats. If he’s a winning quarterback on a winning football team why do the stats matter? We’ve all seen Allen good and bad. Do you doubt he can go out and sling it all over and put up stats? I mean Kyle Allen and Gardner Minshew have done it with worse weapons and worse coaching you don’t think Allen can? Can we agree after last season Allen made tons of mistakes? And this season he has vastly improved on it? 
Is it wrong to protect him and his confidence while he’s learning the game at the pro level? 
Adding more and more into his game as he develops? At some point he needs to be able to takeover a game throwing the ball. Is it better to force it on him now while the team is winning? Is that good development? 
I am quite critical of Allen and I’m still not sold he can take it to the next level, but this offense struggles to execute the easiest of things at times and that falls on everyone. If they can’t execute basic plays why on earth would you force even more pressure on him to open things up? How many times do we have a bad pass? A bad drop? A dumb penalty? An offensive line breakdown? And that’s on some basic passing plays. I just don’t get why you push and push over this and ignore everything that doesn’t fit into your idea of what you want to see. There’s 20 people telling you a million reasons why your philosophy is not good yet you refuse to even agree to disagree. You just want to be right and sorry that’s not a debate or healthy discussion it’s just ignorant. 

[Billsfan1972]

You are all so smart?  Allen is 29th in yards/game and was 32nd last year.  I want better and that does not mean 26 next year then 23. ...  

 

 

[Rc2catch]

32 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

You are all so smart?  Allen is 29th in yards/game and was 32nd last year.  I want better and that does not mean 26 next year then 23. ...  

 

 

Shame they’re going to the playoffs or you could really throw a good temper tantrum ??? 

I mean if they actually got to the super bowl and won and their quarterback only had 170 yards passing it shouldn’t even count. 
Asterisk that trophy roger!!!!!! 
 

I will hush now. No point debating with anyone who has this extreme of tunnel vision. Enjoy the crusade. 

Edited December 27, 2019 by Rc2catch

[loyal2dagame]

I'm sure almost everyone agrees that Allen was a raw talent coming out of college. Everyone talked about his high ceiling. 

 

Not everyone has the patients/fortitude to watch him develop and have realistic views on that development.  

I think he's on the right track. The are still some things that need improvement in his part,  and also thing that Bills management must do to further put him in a position to be great.  

If you are an Allen doubter, ask yourself this question :

When he was drafted,  whether you liked the pick or not,  if you were told he would take the Bills to a 10 win season and a playoff berth in year 2 of his career, would you not want him? 

 

Some Bills fans are fickle. 

Edited December 27, 2019 by loyal2dagame

[Whitey13]

17 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

You are all so smart?  Allen is 29th in yards/game and was 32nd last year.  I want better and that does not mean 26 next year then 23. ...  

 

 

 

No one's claiming to be smart but since it's a TEAM game and the TEAM is winning and in the playoffs.... who cares that the Bills still haven't entertained YOU enough

[John from Riverside]

The team has an identity and a direction....and have been in the playoffs 2 out of 3 years with it

 

The D is what we hang our hat on

 

Meanwhile we have 9 new starters on offense....no true number 1 wide receiver......a rookie RB.....a rookie starting TE.....and a very raw 2nd year QB who is improving by the year

 

And then of course....we are 10 and 5 with a playoff position locked up

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

1 hour ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

If Barkley throws for 300 Sunday the nuts here will go crazy

If he can do it in a quarter and a half, then I could easily see this place going nuts.

 

Very doubtful it happens. I can still see some calling for Barkley to start over Josh Allen though.

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

The team has an identity and a direction....and have been in the playoffs 2 out of 3 years with it

 

The D is what we hang our hat on

 

Meanwhile we have 9 new starters on offense....no true number 1 wide receiver......a rookie RB.....a rookie starting TE.....and a very raw 2nd year QB who is improving by the year

 

And then of course....we are 10 and 5 with a playoff position locked up

How many times do we hear the 9 new starters argument?  It's getting old week 17.  

 

Oh and we have played good defenses down the stretch......  Always another excuse.

 

Remember I am an Allen supporter & think he can be really good, but believe the Bills have held him back and just maybe if the Bills had opened up the offense & given Allen more opportunities earlier in the season that the NE & Baltimore games could have had different outcomes (throw in Cleveland too).....