Guess who's caught lying about his military record

[stuckincincy]

Yes.

22188[/snapback]

 

I respect you for your unequivocal response.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I respect you for your unequivocal response.

22214[/snapback]

 

Thanks!

 

I have always been ripped on this one. Even during the drum beat to war almost 2 years ago, I knew exactly what was going to happen. I hate to be an "I told you so, but, I told you so...

 

I try to be a voice of reason... I don't just dream this sh*t (my opinions) up... Okay, okay, maybe I do.

 

Things weren't very "clean" the way the Bush administration handled the war.

 

NEVER TRUST AN EXILE!...

 

They are too passionate and tend to rap rhapsodic on issues they are distanced from.

 

If this is too cryptic for anybody out there... Forget about it... I just don't want to bust into a huge treatise on it.

[Wacka]

From the RNC:

 

 

 

Who is Ben Barnes?

 

 

Lexis/Nexis sucks, doesn't it libs?

[Alaska Darin]

From the RNC:

Who is Ben Barnes?

Lexis/Nexis sucks, doesn't it libs?

22295[/snapback]

Hypocrisy sucks. I love how hard they were whining about similiar tactics last week.

[stuckincincy]

Thanks!

 

I have always been ripped on this one.  Even during the drum beat to war almost 2 years ago, I knew exactly what was going to happen.  I hate to be an "I told you so, but, I told you so...

 

I try to be a voice of reason... I don't just dream this sh*t (my opinions) up... Okay, okay, maybe I do.   

 

Things weren't very "clean" the way the Bush administration handled the war.

 

NEVER TRUST AN EXILE!...    

 

They are too passionate and tend to rap rhapsodic on issues they are distanced from.

 

If this is too cryptic for anybody out there... Forget about it... I just don't want to bust into a huge treatise on it.

22264[/snapback]

 

Don't wax poetic. I'm not agreeing with you.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Don't wax poetic. I'm not agreeing with you.

22345[/snapback]

 

I prefer rap rhapsodic.

 

Sing with emotion... Isn't it?

 

"Wax" I associate more with "rage".

 

Just my two cents.

[blzrul]

Neither Bush NOR Kerry has any say about "releasing" their records. They aren't "their" records, they are the military's records.

 

These newly-released records were obtained under the Freedom of Information Act as a result of a lawsuit by journalists.

 

Maybe you haven't seen it, but the woman who's husband got Bush the job for the months he was missing is starting to talk. He's now dead but she's got quite a story to tell - this guy was a trusted Bush family supporter and they turned to him to get Shrub out of the limelight when he started to embarrass the family (if they thought he was bad THEN I can imagine what they're thinkig now). He kept quiet out of loyalty for years. I'm surprised you haven't seen it yet. But, you will, I'm sure. Along with the guy who's now confessing how sorry he is that he pulled strings for Bush and others to get into the Guard so they wouldn't have to go to 'Nam.

 

The minute Bush donned the flightsuit he was fair game for this. He boasted of his "service" ... so someone's called him on it. It's no secret in TX what went on, and it's now all about to come out.

 

Speaking of "out" - if you think the McGreevy thing was an isolated case, stay tuned. The next governor to be outed will do so kicking and screaming ... but as the divorce proceeds it will all be made clear. I posted it here months ago...I wonder who remembers? Hint: top aide suddenly resigned within the past week with no explanation. Wink, wink. Not that I care who sleeps with who, but nothing gives me so much enjoyment as watching a hypocrite exposed!

[IUBillsFan]

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahhahahahaahahahahahahahaah.

 

Looks like turnabout is fair play, boys.

 

Especially since the Pentagon just released newly found records that also show Bush had a huge gap in service.  In the same USAToday.

 

To those who would deny this- check it out before you censor this post.

21704[/snapback]

 

What follows is a point-by-point rebuttal of the key passages of the Globe's piece. I am simply applying the truths he has uncovered to this shameless burn of our commander-in-chief.

I quote the Globe's piece chronologically, although I have skipped the irrelevant portions.

 

**** GLOBE:...Bush fell well short of meeting his military obligation, a Globe reexamination of the records shows: Twice during his Guard service -- first when he joined in May 1968, and again before he transferred out of his unit in mid-1973 to attend Harvard Business School -- Bush signed documents pledging to meet training commitments or face a punitive call-up to active duty.

REBUTTAL: What exactly were these training commitments? First of all, Byron York indicates that they were on a May-to-May basis. Bush joined the guard in May, 1968 -- and the obligation was that every twelve subsequent months Bush had to accrue a certain number of "points" to remain in good status with the guard. So, for instance, he had to log a certain amount of time from May, 1968 to May, 1969. Remember this point. This is the major way the Globe skews the facts.

 

 

**** GLOBE: Yet Bush, a fighter-interceptor pilot, performed no service for one six-month period in 1972 and for another period of almost three months in 1973, the records show.

REBUTTAL: This is totally irrelevant. The relevant point is how much service Bush earned in a one year -- May to May -- period. Guardsmen are awarded points for service, with a minimum 12-month requisite of 50 points. Here is how Bush's points break down: May, 1968 to May, 1969: 253 points May, 1969 to May, 1970: 340 points May, 1970 to May, 1971: 137 points May, 1971 to May, 1972: 112 points May, 1972 to May, 1973: 56 points. You can take six months here and three months there, point out correctly that Bush was not there, and still not even be within a mile of a legitimate or relevant point. This essentially destroys the whole of the Globe's argument. It does not matter if Bush was not around for six months. His obligation was for fifty points in a twelve month period. One of the key features of guard service is its flexibility. I mean, they let him go to Alabama to campaign for a politician, for goodness sake. They were flexible. That is one of their many appeals.

 

**** GLOBE: The reexamination of Bush's records by the Globe, along with interviews with military specialists who have reviewed regulations from that era, show that Bush's attendance at required training drills was so irregular that his superiors could have disciplined him or ordered him to active duty in 1972, 1973, or 1974. But they did neither. In fact, Bush's unit certified in late 1973 that his service had been ''satisfactory" -- just four months after Bush's commanding officer wrote that Bush had not been seen at his unit for the previous 12 months.

REBUTTAL: "Irregularity" is not the criterion for censure. The criterion centers around a sufficient number of points in a twelve month period. Bush had this, and hence (surprise, surprise) was judged to have completed his service in a "satisfactory" manner. Thus, Bush could go for "12 months" without getting seen and not be censured. In theory, he could have been absent for 23 months without getting into trouble. If he earned 50 points in May 1971, for instance, he would have met his requirements for May, 1971 until May 1972, when the new period begins. Then, he could wait until April 1973 and earn 50 points again.

And, what is more, what does it mean to say that he had "not been seen?" Is this anecdotal? Is this in the Bush records? What is the relevance of this?

I am not sure, by the way, if it is possible to earn fifty points in a month. But I know that Bush earned 56 points in three months. So, in practice, he could miss 18 months without getting into trouble.

 

**** GLOBE: "He broke his contract with the United States government -- without any adverse consequences. And the Texas Air National Guard was complicit in allowing this to happen," Lechliter said in an interview yesterday. ''He was a pilot. It cost the government a million dollars to train him to fly. So he should have been held to an even higher standard."

REBUTTAL: This statement actually indicates a fundamental truth. For Bush to have improperly received his honorable discharge, the military must be somehow complicit. There must be some kind of conspiracy. Somebody broke the law somewhere. So, out with it, Globe. Who is the dastardly law-breaker?

Note how the Globe leaves the heavy conclusions for third-party sources. They are accusing, but not accusing, Bush. Very clever!

Also, remember this Lechliter guy. His name becomes central later on. The Globe tells us nothing about Gerald A. Lechliter, except that he is "one of a number of retired military officers who have studied Bush's records and old National Guard regulations..."

 

**** GLOBE: After his own review, Korb said Bush could have been ordered to active duty for missing more than 10 percent of his required drills in any given year. Bush, according to the records, fell shy of that obligation in two successive fiscal years.

GLOBE: Do you notice that? The Globe uses the standard "fiscal years" to judge Bush. Do they know that, when it comes to evaluating Bush's service, fiscal years are irrelevant? May to May is the standard to evaluate Bush, and that is not a fiscal year! Does the Globe care? You should care -- this is the key distortion of this piece. It is how they manage to build this absurd argument: they take periods of time that are not relevant and make great hay over the fact that Bush was not present for duty during them. They are quite Clintonian in their deception here, don't you think? The fact is that Bush could be completely in line with guard regulations and, in the period of a given fiscal year, not have earned 50 points.

 

**** GLOBE: "Korb said Bush also made a commitment to complete his six-year obligation when he moved to Cambridge, a transfer the Guard often allowed to accommodate Guardsmen who had to move elsewhere. ''He had a responsibility to find a unit in Boston and attend drills," said Korb, who is now affiliated with a liberal Washington think tank. ''I see no evidence or indication in the documents that he was given permission to forgo training before the end of his obligation. If he signed that document, he should have fulfilled his obligation.""

REBUTTAL: Bush fulfilled his whole obligation for 1973-74 by July, 1973. His quick accumulation of points actually implies that Bush was finishing up his service in Alabama so that he could go to Harvard without worrying about more guard duty. This is exactly what happened. He got 56 points between May, 1973 and July 1973, which met the guard's standard. This is what led to Bush's honorable discharge eight months early. Note that he was discharged right around the time that he moved to Cambridge, MA (September, 1973). The Globe makes it seem like he was sitting pretty up at Harvard, not doing his duty -- but Bush had already been discharged...honorably...by the time he got to Harvard! This fellow Korb is essentially faulting Bush for not attending guard training after he had been discharged! If this is the kind of standard that the media can apply to a politician, everybody better look out! Here I am, sitting at my home, not doing my guard duty. Uh-oh! I think this Korb guy is going to come after me!

 

**** GLOBE: "The documents Bush signed only add to evidence that the future president -- then the son of Houston's congressman -- received favorable treatment when he joined the Guard after graduating from Yale in 1968. Ben Barnes, who was speaker of the Texas House of Representatives in 1968, said in a deposition in 2000 that he placed a call to get young Bush a coveted slot in the Guard at the request of a Bush family friend."

REBUTTAL: How is it possibly the case that Bush's service, for which he was honorably discharged, indicates that he received special treatment? The one has nothing to do with the other.

 

**** GLOBE: "In May 1972, Bush was given permission to move to Alabama temporarily to work on a US Senate campaign, with the provision that he do equivalent training with a unit in Montgomery. But Bush's service records do not show him logging any service in Alabama until October of that year."

REBUTTAL: Again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with waiting until October. Again, his obligation was to garner fifty points between May, 1972 and May, 1973. What is wrong with waiting until October? Forgive me for sounding like a broken record with this May-to-May point, but you see how the Globe is really awful about this time and again, right?

 

**** GLOBE: And even that service is in doubt. Since the Globe first reported Bush's spotty attendance record in May 2000, no one has come forward with any credible recollection of having witnessed Bush performing guard service in Alabama or after he returned to Houston in 1973.

REBUTTAL: What kind of standard is this? How many thousands of guardsmen were floating around in Houston (4th largest American city today) and Alabama? Why would anybody necessarily remember Bush? The Globe -- which you'll remember features Thomas Oliphant, a man who dismissed the Swift Vets because his organization has such exacting standards of proof -- is here accusing Bush and demanding that they disprove him. What kind of standard is that?

And how about the interjection of that subtle little word..."spotty?" By whose standards is it "spotty?" The Globe's or the National Guard's? Certainly not the Guard's, which is what I thought was the key issue.

 

**** GLOBE: "While Bush was in Alabama, he was removed from flight status for failing to take his annual flight physical in July 1972."

REBUTTAL: There is nothing wrong with this fact. He still served his time. Byron York notes that they had more pilots at the Alabama Air National Guard than they needed.

 

 

**** GLOBE: "On May 1, 1973, Bush's superior officers wrote that they could not complete his annual performance review because he had not been observed at the Houston base during the prior 12 months."

REBUTTAL:...because he transferred to Alabama a year earlier! You'll note that the Globe here shows its hand oh-so-subtly. Why was the evaluation on "May 1, 1973"? Because that is when Bush's "year" at the guard began! You'll also note that this is not the first non-sequitur that the Globe has inserted. This piece is loaded with them (as well as quotations from random sources for the most dastardly accusations...cowards!). I imagine that they want this article to have maximum sallacious impact, despite its utter lack of compelling fact.

 

**** GLOBE: Although the records of Bush's service in 1973 are contradictory, some of them suggest that he did a flurry of drills in 1973 in Houston -- a weekend in April and then 38 days of training crammed into May, June, and July. But Lechliter, the retired colonel, concluded after reviewing National Guard regulations that Bush should not have received credit -- or pay -- for many of those days either. The regulations, Lechliter and others said, required that any scheduled drills that Bush missed be made up either within 15 days before or 30 days after the date of the drill.

REBUTTAL: This is the critical point of the piece. Actually, given the fact that Bush received the requisite points in the appropriate time periods (regardless of how the Globe chooses to reinterpret the calendar), this is the only relevant point of the article. It seems to imply that Bush had to earn 50 points in a 12-month period in a certain way that he actually failed to do. Thus, the lead should be: "Bush served his time, but not in the right way" and the focus should be on this fact. But I doubt that this is actually a fact. Given that the Globe puts this at the end of their piece, given that they put it in the mouth of this Lechlither guy (they quote no relevant military regulations and they quote nobody else to back this assertion), given that they seem unaware that this is the critical point, and given that the rest of this piece is such a low-brow smear that it could have been cooked up by MacAuliffe himself -- all of this indicates that this is a highly contestable point.

 

CONCLUSION: Bush fulfilled his commitments to Air National Guard. Obviously, this service was not setting the world on fire. Relative to the combat our boys were seeing over in Vietnam, this was easy duty. But he did his duty. The Boston Globe seems intent on convincing us otherwise.

[PromoTheRobot]

Boston Globe today reports that records that were released under the Freedom of Information act that George W. Bush never finished his military service in the National Guard. He apparently just stopped showing up when he was scheduled for duty. He blew 'em off to go to college!

 

Oddly enough, the penalty for not showing up was an instant promotion to active duty, and a likely trip to 'Nam. Never happened though. I guess somehow they felt they didn't need W in 'Nam.

 

But hey, why bring up the past? What's done is done right? That was a long time ago and I'm sure W feels real sorry and won't do it again. I mean it's not like he exagerrated his wounds to get some medals, right? He just deserted!!

 

PTR

[RkFast]

This group Texans for Truth are just a bunch of liars, funded by the DNC and the Kerry Campaign who do not have a SHRED of REAL evidence to substantiate their claims. Do any of them have any POSITIVE evidence that Bush wasnt there? Did any of them serve on the same aircraft as he did? Did any of them SEE him leave?

 

This group of liars must immedialy pull their ads. John Kerry must then condemn them IMMEDIATLEY. And any media outlets or book stores that carry the message this group is putting forth should stop IMMEDIATELY or face LEGAL action!

 

Right?

[Alaska Darin]

Nothing better than a high placed Democrat admitting he was the one who helped the current President secure his place in the National Guard at the behest of rich OIL MEN (thought only Republicans were guilty of pandering to the rich energy guys?). Wonder why he didn't tell this story 4 years ago? Wonder why the media never asked?

 

Yeah, these parties have ALOT of credibility. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid, partisans.

[IUBillsFan]

What follows is a point-by-point rebuttal of the key passages of the Globe's piece. I am simply applying the truths he has uncovered to this shameless burn of our commander-in-chief.

I quote the Globe's piece chronologically, although I have skipped the irrelevant portions.

 

**** GLOBE:...Bush fell well short of meeting his military obligation, a Globe reexamination of the records shows: Twice during his Guard service -- first when he joined in May 1968, and again before he transferred out of his unit in mid-1973 to attend Harvard Business School -- Bush signed documents pledging to meet training commitments or face a punitive call-up to active duty.

REBUTTAL: What exactly were these training commitments? First of all, Byron York indicates that they were on a May-to-May basis. Bush joined the guard in May, 1968 -- and the obligation was that every twelve subsequent months Bush had to accrue a certain number of "points" to remain in good status with the guard. So, for instance, he had to log a certain amount of time from May, 1968 to May, 1969. Remember this point. This is the major way the Globe skews the facts.

 

 

**** GLOBE: Yet Bush, a fighter-interceptor pilot, performed no service for one six-month period in 1972 and for another period of almost three months in 1973, the records show.

REBUTTAL: This is totally irrelevant. The relevant point is how much service Bush earned in a one year -- May to May -- period. Guardsmen are awarded points for service, with a minimum 12-month requisite of 50 points. Here is how Bush's points break down: May, 1968 to May, 1969: 253 points May, 1969 to May, 1970: 340 points May, 1970 to May, 1971: 137 points May, 1971 to May, 1972: 112 points May, 1972 to May, 1973: 56 points. You can take six months here and three months there, point out correctly that Bush was not there, and still not even be within a mile of a legitimate or relevant point. This essentially destroys the whole of the Globe's argument. It does not matter if Bush was not around for six months. His obligation was for fifty points in a twelve month period. One of the key features of guard service is its flexibility. I mean, they let him go to Alabama to campaign for a politician, for goodness sake. They were flexible. That is one of their many appeals.

 

**** GLOBE: The reexamination of Bush's records by the Globe, along with interviews with military specialists who have reviewed regulations from that era, show that Bush's attendance at required training drills was so irregular that his superiors could have disciplined him or ordered him to active duty in 1972, 1973, or 1974. But they did neither. In fact, Bush's unit certified in late 1973 that his service had been ''satisfactory" -- just four months after Bush's commanding officer wrote that Bush had not been seen at his unit for the previous 12 months.

REBUTTAL: "Irregularity" is not the criterion for censure. The criterion centers around a sufficient number of points in a twelve month period. Bush had this, and hence (surprise, surprise) was judged to have completed his service in a "satisfactory" manner. Thus, Bush could go for "12 months" without getting seen and not be censured. In theory, he could have been absent for 23 months without getting into trouble. If he earned 50 points in May 1971, for instance, he would have met his requirements for May, 1971 until May 1972, when the new period begins. Then, he could wait until April 1973 and earn 50 points again.

And, what is more, what does it mean to say that he had "not been seen?" Is this anecdotal? Is this in the Bush records? What is the relevance of this?

I am not sure, by the way, if it is possible to earn fifty points in a month. But I know that Bush earned 56 points in three months. So, in practice, he could miss 18 months without getting into trouble.

 

**** GLOBE: "He broke his contract with the United States government -- without any adverse consequences. And the Texas Air National Guard was complicit in allowing this to happen," Lechliter said in an interview yesterday. ''He was a pilot. It cost the government a million dollars to train him to fly. So he should have been held to an even higher standard."

REBUTTAL: This statement actually indicates a fundamental truth. For Bush to have improperly received his honorable discharge, the military must be somehow complicit. There must be some kind of conspiracy. Somebody broke the law somewhere. So, out with it, Globe. Who is the dastardly law-breaker?

Note how the Globe leaves the heavy conclusions for third-party sources. They are accusing, but not accusing, Bush. Very clever!

Also, remember this Lechliter guy. His name becomes central later on. The Globe tells us nothing about Gerald A. Lechliter, except that he is "one of a number of retired military officers who have studied Bush's records and old National Guard regulations..."

 

**** GLOBE: After his own review, Korb said Bush could have been ordered to active duty for missing more than 10 percent of his required drills in any given year. Bush, according to the records, fell shy of that obligation in two successive fiscal years.

GLOBE: Do you notice that? The Globe uses the standard "fiscal years" to judge Bush. Do they know that, when it comes to evaluating Bush's service, fiscal years are irrelevant? May to May is the standard to evaluate Bush, and that is not a fiscal year! Does the Globe care? You should care -- this is the key distortion of this piece. It is how they manage to build this absurd argument: they take periods of time that are not relevant and make great hay over the fact that Bush was not present for duty during them. They are quite Clintonian in their deception here, don't you think? The fact is that Bush could be completely in line with guard regulations and, in the period of a given fiscal year, not have earned 50 points.

 

**** GLOBE: "Korb said Bush also made a commitment to complete his six-year obligation when he moved to Cambridge, a transfer the Guard often allowed to accommodate Guardsmen who had to move elsewhere. ''He had a responsibility to find a unit in Boston and attend drills," said Korb, who is now affiliated with a liberal Washington think tank. ''I see no evidence or indication in the documents that he was given permission to forgo training before the end of his obligation. If he signed that document, he should have fulfilled his obligation.""

REBUTTAL: Bush fulfilled his whole obligation for 1973-74 by July, 1973. His quick accumulation of points actually implies that Bush was finishing up his service in Alabama so that he could go to Harvard without worrying about more guard duty. This is exactly what happened. He got 56 points between May, 1973 and July 1973, which met the guard's standard. This is what led to Bush's honorable discharge eight months early. Note that he was discharged right around the time that he moved to Cambridge, MA (September, 1973). The Globe makes it seem like he was sitting pretty up at Harvard, not doing his duty -- but Bush had already been discharged...honorably...by the time he got to Harvard! This fellow Korb is essentially faulting Bush for not attending guard training after he had been discharged! If this is the kind of standard that the media can apply to a politician, everybody better look out! Here I am, sitting at my home, not doing my guard duty. Uh-oh! I think this Korb guy is going to come after me!

 

**** GLOBE: "The documents Bush signed only add to evidence that the future president -- then the son of Houston's congressman -- received favorable treatment when he joined the Guard after graduating from Yale in 1968. Ben Barnes, who was speaker of the Texas House of Representatives in 1968, said in a deposition in 2000 that he placed a call to get young Bush a coveted slot in the Guard at the request of a Bush family friend."

REBUTTAL: How is it possibly the case that Bush's service, for which he was honorably discharged, indicates that he received special treatment? The one has nothing to do with the other.

 

**** GLOBE: "In May 1972, Bush was given permission to move to Alabama temporarily to work on a US Senate campaign, with the provision that he do equivalent training with a unit in Montgomery. But Bush's service records do not show him logging any service in Alabama until October of that year."

REBUTTAL: Again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with waiting until October. Again, his obligation was to garner fifty points between May, 1972 and May, 1973. What is wrong with waiting until October? Forgive me for sounding like a broken record with this May-to-May point, but you see how the Globe is really awful about this time and again, right?

 

**** GLOBE: And even that service is in doubt. Since the Globe first reported Bush's spotty attendance record in May 2000, no one has come forward with any credible recollection of having witnessed Bush performing guard service in Alabama or after he returned to Houston in 1973.

REBUTTAL: What kind of standard is this? How many thousands of guardsmen were floating around in Houston (4th largest American city today) and Alabama? Why would anybody necessarily remember Bush? The Globe -- which you'll remember features Thomas Oliphant, a man who dismissed the Swift Vets because his organization has such exacting standards of proof -- is here accusing Bush and demanding that they disprove him. What kind of standard is that?

And how about the interjection of that subtle little word..."spotty?" By whose standards is it "spotty?" The Globe's or the National Guard's? Certainly not the Guard's, which is what I thought was the key issue.

 

**** GLOBE: "While Bush was in Alabama, he was removed from flight status for failing to take his annual flight physical in July 1972."

REBUTTAL: There is nothing wrong with this fact. He still served his time. Byron York notes that they had more pilots at the Alabama Air National Guard than they needed.

 

 

**** GLOBE: "On May 1, 1973, Bush's superior officers wrote that they could not complete his annual performance review because he had not been observed at the Houston base during the prior 12 months."

REBUTTAL:...because he transferred to Alabama a year earlier! You'll note that the Globe here shows its hand oh-so-subtly. Why was the evaluation on "May 1, 1973"? Because that is when Bush's "year" at the guard began! You'll also note that this is not the first non-sequitur that the Globe has inserted. This piece is loaded with them (as well as quotations from random sources for the most dastardly accusations...cowards!). I imagine that they want this article to have maximum sallacious impact, despite its utter lack of compelling fact.

 

**** GLOBE: Although the records of Bush's service in 1973 are contradictory, some of them suggest that he did a flurry of drills in 1973 in Houston -- a weekend in April and then 38 days of training crammed into May, June, and July. But Lechliter, the retired colonel, concluded after reviewing National Guard regulations that Bush should not have received credit -- or pay -- for many of those days either. The regulations, Lechliter and others said, required that any scheduled drills that Bush missed be made up either within 15 days before or 30 days after the date of the drill.

REBUTTAL: This is the critical point of the piece. Actually, given the fact that Bush received the requisite points in the appropriate time periods (regardless of how the Globe chooses to reinterpret the calendar), this is the only relevant point of the article. It seems to imply that Bush had to earn 50 points in a 12-month period in a certain way that he actually failed to do. Thus, the lead should be: "Bush served his time, but not in the right way" and the focus should be on this fact. But I doubt that this is actually a fact. Given that the Globe puts this at the end of their piece, given that they put it in the mouth of this Lechlither guy (they quote no relevant military regulations and they quote nobody else to back this assertion), given that they seem unaware that this is the critical point, and given that the rest of this piece is such a low-brow smear that it could have been cooked up by MacAuliffe himself -- all of this indicates that this is a highly contestable point.

 

CONCLUSION: Bush fulfilled his commitments to Air National Guard. Obviously, this service was not setting the world on fire. Relative to the combat our boys were seeing over in Vietnam, this was easy duty. But he did his duty. The Boston Globe seems intent on convincing us otherwise.

[stuckincincy]

Still waiting for Kerry to release ALL his service records. Still wondering why not, being such an upstanding guy...he'd better. He will get slammed in the Presidential debates on national TV by Bush on this point the minute he starts talking about his Viet Nam service (which he will).

 

Is there is something very wrong with his record? He's setting himself up for the classic Sunday Punch...

[Cheeseburger_in_paradise]

Boston Globe today reports that records that were released under the Freedom of Information act that George W. Bush never finished his military service in the National Guard.  He apparently just stopped showing up when he was scheduled for duty.  He blew 'em off to go to college!

 

Oddly enough, the penalty for not showing up was an instant promotion to active duty, and a likely trip to 'Nam.  Never happened though.  I guess somehow they felt they didn't need W in 'Nam.

 

But hey, why bring up the past?  What's done is done right?  That was a long time ago and I'm sure W feels real sorry and won't do it again.  I mean it's not like he exagerrated his wounds to get some medals, right?  He just deserted!!

 

PTR

22605[/snapback]

 

Well, if he truly was derelict in his duties back in '73, and needed to be diciplined and sent to Nam for this, except for the pow's and MIA's, he'd have been the only one there. Give us a break please. Of course, if we could have sent him , he'd be dead, and out of your way. JHC.

[Captain America]

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahhahahahaahahahahahahahaah.

 

Looks like turnabout is fair play, boys.

 

Especially since the Pentagon just released newly found records that also show Bush had a huge gap in service.  In the same USAToday.

 

To those who would deny this- check it out before you censor this post.

21704[/snapback]

Once again Komrade Kerry and his looney leftist followers fell into the trap .Do you honestly beleive that the Pentagon just happened to release this right now .You people are fools and the libbers fell for the swift boat scam and now they are now they are taking the bait for another fall

[Captain America]

Kerry shot teenage Vietnamese boys in the back and although no combat expereince Bush had 336 flights in a jet fighter . :I starred in Brokeback Mountain:

[BRH]

Kerry shot teenage Vietnamese boys in the back and although no combat expereince Bush had 336 flights in a jet fighter . :I starred in Brokeback Mountain:

23248[/snapback]

Notwithstanding that you just lied twice in one sentence, would you care to explain how:

 

(1) Bush disobeyed a direct order to take his flight physical;

(2) Bush was suspended from flying not only for failing to take his flight physical but also for "failing to perform to the standards of the United States Air Force and Texas Air National Guard;"

(3) Bush signed a commitment to locate a Massachusetts Air Guard unit with which to train while at business school, and then never showed up;

(4) Bush's people magically "found" the records displayed on 60 Minutes last night -- records they claimed never existed;

(5) Bush's people have on at least three occasions this year released "all" of his military records, only to admit they were lying by the mere act of releasing "more" records

 

That's just for starters and should keep you occupied for awhile.

 

The bottom line is that the more the Swift Boat accusations get investigated, the more evidence turns up that tends to prove that Kerry earned his medals and the Swifties are politically-motivated, GOP-funded liars -- while the more the TANG charges get investigated, the more evidence turns up that tends to show that not only are the charges true, but that Bush and his people have been lying and covering it up for 30 years.

 

I don't expect a real answer here. Instead, I'll come back in a bit to find the usual pabulum about how the past doesn't matter, how I-know-Bush-is-but-what-is-Kerry, and a bunch of :fyou:'s that do little to enhance the dialogue.

 

[edited at 12:40: sound of crickets in reply]

[DC Tom]

(1) Bush disobeyed a direct order to take his flight physical;

(2) Bush was suspended from flying not only for failing to take his flight physical but also for "failing to perform to the standards of the United States Air Force and Texas Air National Guard;"

 

Actually, those probably go hand-in-hand. I don't know, but "failing to perform..." could very well encompass refusing a flight physical and hence being grounded.

 

The bottom line is that the more the Swift Boat accusations get investigated, the more evidence turns up that tends to prove that Kerry earned his medals and the Swifties are politically-motivated, GOP-funded liars -- while the more the TANG charges get investigated, the more evidence turns up that tends to show that not only are the charges true, but that Bush and his people have been lying and covering it up for 30 years.

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The only evidence that matters wrt Kerry's medals is the official record; that's what awards are based on. (It's yet another demonstration of his campaign's stupidity...he should have done nothing more than point at the citations and battle reports, said "Here's the Navy's official position; if you disagree argue it with them", and dropped the whole thing.) Any "new" evidence to the contrary should likely be presented to the Navy, since it's actually questioning their records...

 

Bush, on the other hand...honestly, I don't see why anyone cares so much about this "new" evidence. My initial reaction on hearing it was "Yeah, no stevestojan..." What the hell is the point of shouting "See! This proves something we all knew already!"

[BRH]

Actually, those probably go hand-in-hand.  I don't know, but "failing to perform..." could very well encompass refusing a flight physical and hence being grounded.

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That could be, but then how do we know? After all, it's impossible to figure out what a dead guy was thinking, isn't it? (That argument from Bartlett was pure stevestojan. I thought the whole POINT of writing file memos and keeping diaries was so that if you were unavailable to explain something, the memos would be there to do it for you.)

 

The only evidence that matters wrt Kerry's medals is the official record; that's what awards are based on.  (It's yet another demonstration of his campaign's stupidity...he should have done nothing more than point at the citations and battle reports, said "Here's the Navy's official position; if you disagree argue it with them", and dropped the whole thing.)  Any "new" evidence to the contrary should likely be presented to the Navy, since it's actually questioning their records...

I think he did do that, but don't you think that in light of the lineup of SBVs against him, he had to at least bring forth some witnesses to corroborate the records (which he did)?

 

Bush, on the other hand...honestly, I don't see why anyone cares so much about this "new" evidence.  My initial reaction on hearing it was "Yeah, no stevestojan..."  What the hell is the point of shouting "See!  This proves something we all knew already!"

Maybe because Bush continues to insist that he completed his service in both Texas and Alabama despite official documentation that shows otherwise? (Yes, yes, the honorable discharge. Isn't it within the realm of possibility -- nay, as it seems now, likelihood -- that Bush's family friends not only fixed his entry into the service but also his exit?)

[DC Tom]

That could be, but then how do we know?

 

Honestly? Some of us know better than others. Most of those who've served would know better than I am, but I've worked with the military enough (and the AF in particular - I prototyped their electronic forms system, and did a lot of work with performance reports) to know it's perfectly consistent. It's a solid bet that refusing the physical had at least something to do with that statement.

 

I think he did do that, but don't you think that in light of the lineup of SBVs against him, he had to at least bring forth some witnesses to corroborate the records (which he did)?

 

If he did do something like that, I give him all the credit in the world for it...but I don't recall it, and his continuing "The Republicans are being mean to me" whining about it would at the very least fatally weaken any such statement anyway.

 

And no, I don't think he had to bring forward any witnesses. He's got the official Navy records on his side. Who the !@#$ needs witnesses when you've got the Navy? Again...just weakened his case. His problem is that he tries too damned hard to explain away this crap. Bush, on the other hand, just dismisses it. So far, Bush is being the smarter epileptic monkey and keeping to his corner while Kerry flails around.

 

 

Maybe because Bush continues to insist that he completed his service in both Texas and Alabama despite official documentation that shows otherwise?  (Yes, yes, the honorable discharge.  Isn't it within the realm of possibility -- nay, as it seems now, likelihood -- that Bush's family friends not only fixed his entry into the service but also his exit?)

23683[/snapback]

 

Honestly...the Guard and Reserves work by different rules, precisely what or how different I'm not cognizant of. From what I've read, though, Bush's National Guard record, spotty though it is to the unaware (such as myself and, I presume, yourself), doesn't seem all THAT different to me than Kerry's service in the reserves (he didn't quite complete all his requirements, either). Furthermore, I don't know what the prevalent attitude was at the time in the Guard or Reserves; judging by today's standards it may be reprehensible, but at the time it may have been "no big deal". Basically, when it comes to Bush in the Guard or Kerry in the Reserves...I don't have enough to make a proper judgement, and I don't really care. I don't see it as relevant to their candidacy, even if they wish to pander to the American public with it.