Joe B’s All 22 Review: Allen and Edmunds Struggle Big Time vs NE

[GoBills808]

12 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

Yea that’s where I’m at too. The run defense being poor is a product of the offense not scoring big numbers. Teams know the can pound the rock. Go up by 2 scores and the quickly goes away.

 

Look what Baltimore did Sunday bs the Browns when they were down and the run game was ineffective. They passed.

In the most simplistic terms (there's obviously a lot more to it) the EV of a run play is significantly less than a pass play...ideally you want to incentivize teams to run at a certain frequency and with a certain amount of success. 

[Cripple Creek]

41 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Except when he doesn't feel rushed and can take all day, right?  For example, vs. Dallas.  Which had a top-10 D at the point in which we played them.  I'm not sure what the "taller guy" has to do with it.  It's having room to set his feet and follow through properly and as a tall guy, he does need more room.

 

There's a difference between having to account for a blitzer vs having your OL shoved 3 or 6 feet back into your lap as you pass.

 

 

We all do, but part of it is going to be more consistent play from the OL.

Taller guy, according to the “experts” has a lot to do with it. You should be able to find some articles if you google tall QBs.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

oh heavens he said something critical of Joshie! 

 

 

All criticism is not equal. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Trade for Kuechly and slide Edmunds over... let Superman do his job

[Locomark]

Why do people keep quoting Joe B....what expertise does he have??  I just don’t get why anyone quotes anything he says. He has no scouting experience, no coaching experience, nor even a major background in covering the sport at this level. In general this seems to be the worst type of football evaluator. A fan who looks at tape and thinks he can back seat GM. I don’t read him any more that I would read my neighbors’ critiques. We can all make the same type of educated assumptions he does but I don’t spout them off as being some intense all 22 evaluation. This guy doesn’t know a cross check from a crossbuck. 

Edited December 26, 2019 by Locomark

[Mango]

11 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The question is whether "generally good play at MLB within the scheme" is worth what you sacrifice potentially on the outside.

 

On the outside I think Edmunds might be a DPOY candidate............inside he will be always be vulnerable against teams that run the ball effectively.

 

To me he is their most talented defensive player and if I am an opposing offense I gladly substitute a fullback to take him out of the game.    He's always going to struggle against FB's IMO.........he's just such a big target and doesn't have the "elite" instincts of a great MLB to get to spots fast enough to defeat lead blocking.

 

It's like the reverse issue the Bills once had with Cornelius Bennett...........a guy who should have been a sure-fire HOF inside LB in a 3-4 but the Bills played outside as an edge rusher where his lack of length prevented him from being an elite pass rusher.   

 

To me..........you can find a different MLB and still run the scheme.    Preston Brown sufficed with Dareus playing well in front of him in 2017.    Sure you want better than that but it shows there is more than one way to do it.

 

Maybe we get lucky and the Lions fire Patricia and Snax Harrison becomes available.   He's having a down year but to me he's the kind of DT1T you gotta have in front of Edmunds because Harrison is not only huge he actually tackles RB's.    But there aren't many DT's that are capable of putting up 80 tackle seasons.   The easier fix is still probably finding a different MLB that mirrors the RB position more naturally.

Agreed. Especially if you have guys like Oliver and Phillips pretty heavy in your rotation. Having an upgrade at MLB in run support allows two penetrating DTs on the field together more often. 

[JoPoy88]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

All criticism is not equal. 

this is always true and I am not a big fan of Joe B in general but his critiques this time seemed pretty accurate. But to some here (and you would know better than almost anyone) ANY critique of Allen is a cue to go defensive and demolish the critic. That’s more what I was trying to relay.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, JoPoy88 said:

this is always true and I am not a big fan of Joe B in general but his critiques this time seemed pretty accurate. But to some here (and you would know better than almost anyone) ANY critique of Allen is a cue to go defensive and demolish the critic. That’s more what I was trying to relay.

 

We have a spectrum here, with one extreme who go nuts at any criticism and the other extreme who criticize to the point of looking kind of nuts.

 

My point:

I don't think it adds value to post just to bash Joe B as not being a former football player or coach

 

I don't think it adds value to post just to bash people who are critical of critics, either. 

 

6 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

Taller guy, according to the “experts” has a lot to do with it. You should be able to find some articles if you google tall QBs.

 

I would be enchanted to entertain any articles you care to share that illustrate your point.

[BigDingus]

15 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

Yes and if was that easy Joe would be a coach in the NFL and not a reporter. 

 

That's the stupidest mindset anyone above 10 years old could have.

You don't have to experience or do something in order to understand what happened. You know we have an entire core study in schools across the world about this, it's called "History." Oddly enough, people who never lived through something, weren't there, and are analyzing it in retrospect are somehow able to understand things that happened! Crazy right?

Similarly, with a whole 2 years of playing football under my belt, can see when someone sucks at their position in that very sport, even if I am not an All-Pro talent or Super Bowl winning coach. I know, truly shocking.

[BigDingus]

8 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Before the Bills game the Patriots had allowed 10 passing TDs to 25 INTs... Near historic numbers

 

Josh finished with over 200 and 2-0 TD INT ratio

 

 

On 13 of 26 passing....

 

That means he averaged 15 yard per completion, and did nothing with the other half of his opportunities. If that's considered some kind of amazing performance, I guess the standards here are so insanely low that anything will please us, even losses to hated rivals that we had opportunity after opportunity to win (in both games). 

I'm not worried about it because it's clear this is who Josh has always been. Figure why not just enjoy the winning record while we have it. I'm sure tons of people will be satisfied with a playoff loss where Josh misses open WR's all game too, as long as he throws 50% & the score is close in said loss.

Hopefully sometime this offseason something begins to click with him and the game slows down. A 3rd straight year of similar play, only now against better opponents, will really highlight these problems even worse. Of course, plenty of fans will be happy with that either way. Only after we fire several OC's, re-replace all the linemen, spend big money on WR's and finally drop McDermott, will we have to finally come around to who else might be to blame.

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, BigDingus said:

 

On 13 of 26 passing....

 

That means he averaged 15 yard per completion, and did nothing with the other half of his opportunities. If that's considered some kind of amazing performance, I guess the standards here are so insanely low that anything will please us, even losses to hated rivals that we had opportunity after opportunity to win (in both games). 

I'm not worried about it because it's clear this is who Josh has always been. Figure why not just enjoy the winning record while we have it. I'm sure tons of people will be satisfied with a playoff loss where Josh misses open WR's all game too, as long as he throws 50% & the score is close in said loss.

Hopefully sometime this offseason something begins to click with him and the game slows down. A 3rd straight year of similar play, only now against better opponents, will really highlight these problems even worse. Of course, plenty of fans will be happy with that either way. Only after we fire several OC's, re-replace all the linemen, spend big money on WR's and finally drop McDermott, will we have to finally come around to who else might be to blame.

I don't think I ever said it was amazing. The Patriots are allowing about 53% completion on the year so he was right in the norm..

 

He also crushed the TD to INT ratio of the pats Defense

 

Josh will NEVER be a 65% season completion guy. He throws the ball away too much and gives up easy throws for harder ones

 

That doesn't mean he won't improve which he has already 10 fold

 

Anybody who hasn't seen a massive growth in Josh's game needs some bifocals and he is likely to keep improving

[Agent 91]

15 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This is true but his size and the range in the middle of the field is a massive part of our pass defense. It allows their safeties to play with more freedom because Edmunds can take away passing lanes that other teams have to bring safeties up to defend. 

 

I see the argument for moving Edmunds outside but in a pass first league I am increasingly of the view that you have to live with his occasional run game issues for the benefit of what he does in the pass game. And you have to get better play from your 1 tech to compensate. That means more from Star. 

Harrison should do the  trick next year

[78thealltimegreat]

16 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

https://theathletic.com/1480466/2019/12/25/bills-all-22-review-the-very-loud-conundrum-that-is-the-josh-allen-evaluation/?source=shared-article
 

Joe Buscaglia is done evaluating the film from the Bills All 22.  Its largely what you would expect - the Bills fought tough but couldn’t come through.

 

Josh Allen struggled and regressed versus the NE defense.  While he made the 2 big throws, he also missed many other golden opportunities that could have helped the team.  He missed several shots at finding an open WR and overthrew other passes.  Ironically he says that the game in NE is perfect evidence for the conundrum of Josh Allen.  If you want to find evidence of his inaccuracy, it’s there.  If you want to find evidence of his big play ability, it’s there.  

 

Tremaine Edmunds played terrible early on and NE took him out of the game with a lead blocker.  He couldn’t get off blocks WGR the game began and this is why NE has so much running successes.  He did better toward the end but the front 4 did him no favors
 

Surprisingly, he said that Jordan Phillips has a bad game and did not show up.  This led Joe to question whether the Bills should break to bank to resign him.  
 

He also said that Dawson Knox is on the brink of breakout our given his ability to separate and win 50/50 balls.  

We know we know Allen sucks you’re getting tiresome why don’t you just try getting a job in the Bills scouting department already ?

[Dablitzkrieg]

I don't know why, but Joe B is really annoying me lately.  Probably just me.

[JoPoy88]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

We have a spectrum here, with one extreme who go nuts at any criticism and the other extreme who criticize to the point of looking kind of nuts.

 

My point:

I don't think it adds value to post just to bash Joe B as not being a former football player or coach

 

I don't think it adds value to post just to bash people who are critical of critics, either. 

Point well taken my only response would be my reply fittingly equaled the response I was replying to in effort. At least Joe B put some work in. 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

12 hours ago, Tatonka68 said:

Joe B is just a typical talking head who never played the game. He was probably in the drama club in school. Pay no attention to what he says.

And this post means I should pay zero attention to what you say 

[Chicken Boo]

Edmunds would play outside, in a Mike Vrabel role, on a Belichick coached defense.

[Big Blitz]

Did Joe B comment on how badly we were abused on play action?  That was the biggest issue on D.  Combined with not stopping the run I mean you're toast when that's happening.

 

As to Josh "regressing."  I don't how it is regressing when you do up there what only 1 QB has done all season and the last time you played you had 4 TOs.

 

BB eats rookie and 2nd year QBs.  I'm pretty sure regression was the last thing i saw.  

 

Joe B continues to understand how to get clicks.  That's all that matters for a site that demands it in an attempt to draw subscribers.  

[JoPoy88]

2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Did Joe B comment on how badly we were abused on play action?  That was the biggest issue on D.  Combined with not stopping the run I mean you're toast when that's happening.

 

As to Josh "regressing."  I don't how it is regressing when you do up there what only 1 QB has done all season and the last time you played you had 4 TOs.

 

BB eats rookie and 2nd year QBs.  I'm pretty sure regression was the last thing i saw.  

 

Joe B continues to understand how to get clicks.  That's all that matters for a site that demands it in an attempt to draw subscribers.  

yeah i would not say Allen regressed either. He had trouble with things that have bothered him all season, but against that defense, in particular, I think his improvements (especially in the 2nd half) shone bright. “Regression” in my mind describes Trubisky from last year to this. I think Allen is still playing his game, for better or worse, and still improving.

[Thurman#1]

19 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

Yes and if was that easy Joe would be a coach in the NFL and not a reporter. 

 

 

Nonsense.

 

Yeah, coaching requires a ton more knowledge.

 

But Joe isn't doing what coaches do. He's not calling plays and attempting to fool defensive coordinators. He's just looking at what happened with the benefit of hindsight. What he has set himself the task to do doesn't require absolute genius. What happened is right on the screen, and you can watch it again and again looking at what each player did. It just isn't as difficult as people want to pretend it is. The tough part of what Joe does game after game after game is that it takes massive amounts of time to look at each player on each play. That's the hardest part of what Joe does, and I respect the commitment it takes to do that.

 

No, you can't understand absolutely everything you see. And no, you won't know as much as the coaches do about what happened. But there's a reason that teams put interns on film study of other teams. You can understand the great majority of what goes on in the great majority of plays. It's hindsight, with video. It's not blind sudoku.

Edited December 26, 2019 by Thurman#1