Joe B’s All 22 Review: Allen and Edmunds Struggle Big Time vs NE

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

If I'm Dawson Knox, I'm spending the off season with one of those ball machines, taking 1000 reps a day. He has the potential to be special.

 

If I'm Dawson Knox, the ball machine I'm spending my off-season with is named "Josh".  Just say "wherever thou goest, I shall go" to Josh

 

3 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

It means - critiquing Joe B’s analysis because he’s not coaching football is cheap and adds nothing to this discussion.  At least the guy is breaking down film and offering real football insight.  I’m sure its fairly subjective but he makes some really good points and I am tired of the cheap reactions to any critical writer.

 

Thanks for the explanation.

 

I'm not sure I trust Joe's  "football insights" but I do appreciate your POV.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Edmunds tends to play poorly against power run schemes which feature a fullback (or converted linebacker) who “takes the fight” to him.  He struggles with getting his pads low and engaging the lead blocker with violence.  It does seem fixable and he has definitely improved as the year has gone on.  He improved during the game on Saturday.  My bigger beef was with Star and Phillips - those dudes should give back their game checks from last week.

 

I think the football lines - OL and DL - are two of the positions on the field where the mental aspect of play is huge.  If there is any aspect of "self preservation in a meaningless game" in the guy's mind, they're going to get pwned by an opponent that is "all in".  And the Bills were, on both lines.

 

I could read it all week in the pressers and stuff that the coaches weren't 100% all in "must win" on this game.  We want to go 1-0 each week but we have further goals.  I'm sure some of the vet players read the tea-leaves.  I think the conclusion "therefore don't pay the man" based upon this one game is reactive.

[Buffalo Junction]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I mean, "if"?  "If" Allen reins in 3-4 bad throws per game he could develop into a top QB?

 

 

With rookies there’s always an “if”. ?‍♂️  Knox has to improve. If he doesn’t he will be replaced like every other player, including Allen and Oliver. Knox has a relatively high ceiling, the dropsies will assure a low floor.... just like Zay Jones.
 

My opinion on Allen is that a large portion of his accuracy issues stem from poor footwork and inconsistent fundamentals coupled with inexperience. That can be mostly fixed with diligence. However, I think he’ll always have a penchant for a few WTF throws here and there like Favre. 

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If I'm Dawson Knox, the ball machine I'm spending my off-season with is named "Josh".  Just say "wherever thou goest, I shall go" to Josh.

I wonder Palmer will let Knox shag balls at QB camp. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Phil The Thrill said:

https://theathletic.com/1480466/2019/12/25/bills-all-22-review-the-very-loud-conundrum-that-is-the-josh-allen-evaluation/?source=shared-article
 

Joe Buscaglia is done evaluating the film from the Bills All 22.  Its largely what you would expect - the Bills fought tough but couldn’t come through.

 

Josh Allen struggled and regressed versus the NE defense.  While he made the 2 big throws, he also missed many other golden opportunities that could have helped the team.  He missed several shots at finding an open WR and overthrew other passes.  Ironically he says that the game in NE is perfect evidence for the conundrum of Josh Allen.  If you want to find evidence of his inaccuracy, it’s there.  If you want to find evidence of his big play ability, it’s there.  

 

Tremaine Edmunds played terrible early on and NE took him out of the game with a lead blocker.  He couldn’t get off blocks WGR the game began and this is why NE has so much running successes.  He did better toward the end but the front 4 did him no favors
 

Surprisingly, he said that Jordan Phillips has a bad game and did not show up.  This led Joe to question whether the Bills should break to bank to resign him.  
 

He also said that Dawson Knox is on the brink of breakout our given his ability to separate and win 50/50 balls.  

 

You know, yes, Josh struggled, but I don't see the "regressed" thing at all. 

 

To me, this game was night-and-day different than the Week 4 game and clear evidence of Josh's progress during this season.  Yes, he missed some throws and passed up some open guys, but it seemed pretty clear he was generally not "dazed and confused"'; he was not to be baited into foolish throws, and he knew where to go even when he couldn't get it there.

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

Something something something 

 

Anti-Allen Agenda 

 

Something something

 

Not a real Bills fan 

 

something something 

 

football idiot

 

something something

 

I'm going to go with Coach Tueday's explanation of his take here:

" It means - critiquing Joe B’s analysis because he’s not coaching football is cheap and adds nothing to this discussion.  (....) I am tired of the cheap reactions to any critical writer. "

 

I think this apparent "preemptive strike" on any critical assessment is equally a cheap reaction that adds nothing to the discussion.

 

 

[Mango]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You know, yes, Josh struggled, but I don't see the "regressed" thing at all. 

 

To me, this game was night-and-day different than the Week 4 game and clear evidence of Josh's progress during this season.  Yes, he missed some throws and passed up some open guys, but it seemed pretty clear he was generally not "dazed and confused"'; he was not to be baited into foolish throws, and he knew where to go even when he couldn't get it there.

 

I'm going to go with Coach Tueday's explanation of his take here:

" It means - critiquing Joe B’s analysis because he’s not coaching football is cheap and adds nothing to this discussion.  At least the guy is breaking down film and offering real football insight.  I’m sure its fairly subjective but he makes some really good points and I am tired of the cheap reactions to any critical writer. "

 

I think this apparent "preemptive strike" on any critical assessment is also cheap and adds nothing to the discussion.

 

 

That’s fair. Felt snarky this morning. Deleted. 
 

Just to clarify I was mocking everybody who gets up in arms when people mention something bad abo Allen. 

Edited December 25, 2019 by Mango

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, Mango said:

That’s fair. Felt snarky this morning. 

 

Let me replace that lump of coal with an orange or something.  Merry Christmas!

[Scott7975]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You know, yes, Josh struggled, but I don't see the "regressed" thing at all. 

 

To me, this game was night-and-day different than the Week 4 game and clear evidence of Josh's progress during this season.  Yes, he missed some throws and passed up some open guys, but it seemed pretty clear he was generally not "dazed and confused"'; he was not to be baited into foolish throws, and he knew where to go even when he couldn't get it there.

 

I'm going to go with Coach Tueday's explanation of his take here:

" It means - critiquing Joe B’s analysis because he’s not coaching football is cheap and adds nothing to this discussion.  At least the guy is breaking down film and offering real football insight.  I’m sure its fairly subjective but he makes some really good points and I am tired of the cheap reactions to any critical writer. "

 

I think this apparent "preemptive strike" on any critical assessment is also cheap and adds nothing to the discussion.

 

 

 

I don't see "regression" either.  I see improvement in decision making.  Where he needs to improve now is under pressure.  That seems to be where he makes "inaccurate" throws.  The game will slow down for him eventually and he will learn to take his outlet.

[Mango]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Let me replace that lump of coal with an orange or something.  Merry Christmas!

you as well sir. 
 

the in-laws have me on edge already and it’s not even noon yet. 

[Happy]

37 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This is true but his size and the range in the middle of the field is a massive part of our pass defense. It allows their safeties to play with more freedom because Edmunds can take away passing lanes that other teams have to bring safeties up to defend. 

 

I see the argument for moving Edmunds outside but in a pass first league I am increasingly of the view that you have to live with his occasional run game issues for the benefit of what he does in the pass game. And you have to get better play from your 1 tech to compensate. That means more from Star. 

 

There is a benefit to moving Edmunds outside, but McD won't do that; it is not how his defensive scheme is meant to function.  Edmunds seems to cover the middle of the field in pass defense as well as assist in run defense, though he is not the primary rush defender.  The DT's are primarily responsible for run defense, and Star has done a very poor job of this all year; a few positive flashes here and there, but overall not worth what he is being paid.  The Bills need to keep Phillips, Liuget, Taylor, and add another big 1-tech.  Oliver needs to bulk up as he is too small for the role that the DT needs to play.  If we had a traditional Ray Lewis type MLB, then you can get away with smaller DTs, but when the MLB is essentially a bigger strong safety, your defensive line needs to compensate for that.

 

You have to account for both the run and pass.  It seemed that earlier in the season (Philly game) they were too lax in stopping the run; Philly saw this in the previous week's Miami game.

[BuffaloRebound]

 It’s easy to watch film and criticize what throws Allen missed or didn’t make.  But when this non-expert watches other NFL games, I rarely see other teams put as much on the shoulders of their QB as the Bills do.  Our running game minus Allen scares no one.  We don’t run screens or have much in the way of a creative short passing game.  We score when Allen makes a big play with his arm or legs.  

Yes, we have a good defense but whatever points we do score is almost totally reliant on Allen.  

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

45 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think the football lines - OL and DL - are two of the positions on the field where the mental aspect of play is huge.  If there is any aspect of "self preservation in a meaningless game" in the guy's mind, they're going to get pwned by an opponent that is "all in".  And the Bills were, on both lines.

 

I could read it all week in the pressers and stuff that the coaches weren't 100% all in "must win" on this game.  We want to go 1-0 each week but we have further goals.  I'm sure some of the vet players read the tea-leaves.  I think the conclusion "therefore don't pay the man" based upon this one game is reactive.

Now that is interesting. Thank you for sharing your take there. Can't say I'm a fan of that mentality from Derm.

[DuckyBoys]

Saying Allen regressed seems harsh I didn't see any evidence of that.   He didn't turn it over and for the most looked like he knew where to go with the ball  .He did miss some easy looks  Not sure if it was more nerves of bad footwork from feeling the pressure.    Whole offense could have played better starting with the O line which did him no favors.  I think if we had been able to run the football it wold have been a different outcome  If we had slowed down the Pats run game I dont think Tom has the same success without play action

[Casey D]

47 minutes ago, Mango said:

you as well sir. 
 

the in-laws have me on edge already and it’s not even noon yet. 

It's five o' clock somewhere, and it could help!

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

Yea for all the criticism of Milano on here after the game for a couple of missed tackles in the 4th quarter, Edmunds was exposed much more significantly. It is the 3rd time that the Pats have done him that way in 4 meetings. He played a really good game against them week 4 and I think it is no coincidence it was just after Devlin the fullback went down injured and they hadn't quite found their adjustment yet. Now they have that linebacker on the field as a lead blocker pretty much every snap. 

Good call on the FB.  Roberts was impressive.  
 

[JaCrispy]

21 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Josh's first half was pretty awful... and then he had that one really nice throw to Knox and from there he started to put together a nice game.... unfortunately they didn't really give him a lot of opportunities after they went up 17-13. They went the conservative route with the lead per the norm resulting in a string of 3 and outs while the defense couldn't get off the field. Having no choice to get aggressive Josh put together a nice final drive with some ridiculous throws.... IMO Josh is always going to have a few throws where you wondering how an NFL QB misses that throw, but if he can adjust and figure out how to correct those easy throws he'll be a real playmaker at the QB position and his offenses will put up points.... assuming his HC and OC take the handcuffs off and stop with the conservative, run the clock out bull#### offensive strategy. 

I think this sums it up nicely...Allen will miss on some throws, Daboll will have poor sequences of play calling...but ultimately, McD sets the tone for the offense, which causes Daboll to call conservative plays, and causes Allen to play timid, while limiting his chances to make plays...

 

McD’s mindset is NEVER to win a game by multiple scores...once he gets the smallest of leads (no matter how early in the game), McD just shuts everything down...it’s such a loser mentality that, no doubt, will come back to bite him in the ass...

 

Think back to the Steelers game...remember how relieved McD was that he was actually able to pull out the victory after we dominated them...it NEVER should have been that close but coach kept giving them chances to come back at the end of the game...instead of putting them away and trying to end the game with the ball, McD never seriously tried picking up a first down  for several drives at the end of the 4th quarter...it’s infuriating and pathetic at the same time.

[mannc]

2 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

Yes and if was that easy Joe would be a coach in the NFL and not a reporter. 

Right, we should listen only to the opinions of current or former NFL coaches, like Rex Ryan, for example.  No one else knows football.

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

36 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Josh's first half was pretty awful... and then he had that one really nice throw to Knox and from there he started to put together a nice game.... unfortunately they didn't really give him a lot of opportunities after they went up 17-13. They went the conservative route with the lead per the norm resulting in a string of 3 and outs while the defense couldn't get off the field. Having no choice to get aggressive Josh put together a nice final drive with some ridiculous throws.... IMO Josh is always going to have a few throws where you wondering how an NFL QB misses that throw, but if he can adjust and figure out how to correct those easy throws he'll be a real playmaker at the QB position and his offenses will put up points.... assuming his HC and OC take the handcuffs off and stop with the conservative, run the clock out bull#### offensive strategy. 

I caught the last drive on the replay last night. He made some big time throws moving the chains down the field. Need to hone in on those types of throws from the start of the game. He gets that down and teams better watch out.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

you as well sir. 
 

the in-laws have me on edge already and it’s not even noon yet. 

You need a good excuse to get out of the house for awhile. I recommend several hours.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I don't see "regression" either.  I see improvement in decision making.  Where he needs to improve now is under pressure.  That seems to be where he makes "inaccurate" throws.  The game will slow down for him eventually and he will learn to take his outlet.

 

I like Joe B's 22 reviews even if I don't always agree with them.  It's nice having a different set of eyes watching the game and I don't detect an agenda in what the guy writes.

 

I do think in this case the use of the word "regressed" to describe Allen's play against NE is wrong. As others have pointed out Allen significantly improved his game versus the earlier NE game.  So by definition he didn't regress.  A 103 QB rating further supports the idea that there was NO regression by Allen on Sunday.

 

What we did see though were missed opportunities by Allen & the Bills on offense.  This is an area where Allen needs to improve.  But on the road against an elite D in a game the Pats needed a lot more then we did, Allen was solid. 

 

As for Edmunds and the D let's not forget that the context of the game.  This NE team reminds me of those Bills teams in the immediate aftermath of the Super Bowl era.  You could tell they were sliding but they could still circle the wagons and bite your face off.  NE had been hearing for weeks how the O was the weak link and that Brady was over the hill and the Pats had no skill players.  This triggers a pride reaction and that's part of what we saw Sunday.  A Bill's D coming off of several intense defensive efforts played flat against an inspired NE offense.  No one should be surprised they rolled the Bills D and made young players like Edmunds look bad.

 

 

 

 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

It means - critiquing Joe B’s analysis because he’s not coaching football is cheap and adds nothing to this discussion.  At least the guy is breaking down film and offering real football insight.  I’m sure its fairly subjective but he makes some really good points and I am tired of the cheap reactions to any critical writer.

The “let’s see you/him do better” reactions exhibit no real thought on the matter. Joe b isn’t always right, but he puts in the work in order to form a valid opinion, something that more posters should do