If Patriots are cheating, what are the possibilities?

[finn]

The Patriots got caught cheating twice, with Spygate in 2007 and the inflated balls in 2014, and maybe again this season with the "innocent" filming of the Bengals sideline. So it's not unreasonable to assume they will cheat when and where they think they can get away with it. Yet I don't see any speculation along these lines anywhere. For instance, what's to stop them from installing microphones in the visitors' locker room at Gillette? Or eavesdropping on opposing teams' communications during a game? Or recruiting spies to report on other teams' practices? If you have the will and resources to cheat, the possibilities are endless. Someone here said Madden assumed his opponent was spying on the Raiders' practice before a playoff game and had his team stay after to install different plays. You don't want to get paranoid, but if I'm McDermott I might want to do the same thing, and more. 

 

 

[I'm Spartacus]

The majority of fans believe the Pats*** cheat all the time. They have been caught with the couple of biggies you mention above,

but I do not believe they would waste valuable resources and effort to spy, tape, and do all this little stuff everyone thinks they do.

Good/excellent organizations shouldn't have to do this.  It's all about execution out on the field with good plays, coaching, and execution IMHO.

The cheating Pats thing has gotten overblown.

[prissythecat]

5 minutes ago, I'm Spartacus said:

The majority of fans believe the Pats*** cheat all the time. They have been caught with the couple of biggies you mention above,

but I do not believe they would waste valuable resources and effort to spy, tape, and do all this little stuff everyone thinks they do.

Good/excellent organizations shouldn't have to do this.  It's all about execution out on the field with good plays, coaching, and execution IMHO.

The cheating Pats thing has gotten overblown.

 

 

Not on this board where most  believe there is a conspiracy in the NFL to favor the Pats

[I'm Spartacus]

I hate the Pats*** just as much as the next guy.

To me, the underhanded advantages they get are more about the non-calls against them and the bogus calls against their competition.

Why the ref's didn't call a face mask that Allen got near the end of the game is mind boggling! You KNOW they would have flagged the Bills if it was Brady.

I'd rather the refs be more fair and balanced on penalty calls, rather than worry about a microphone bug placed in an opponents locker room.

[BUFFALOKIE]

You may be on to something here. Patriots cheating? What are the possibilities? 

[Gugny]

If ???

[ILBillsfan]

I think they press the rules as far as they can and they do little things that I would call game savy that may bounce back n forth on the illegal part.  take for example how they move the ball presnap a little forward.  Pick plays that I can't believe they got called for normally that edleman play doesn't get called imo.  The little trip on oliver by Brady and the throw away that was grounding imo.  They just seem to get the benefit of the doubt too much

[wagon127]

The dominance of their franchise is suspect. Brady has only been injured to miss a game, once in his whole career (2008). The staff in gillette stadium are either the most incompetitent in the NFL, or they are cheating. Under-inflating footballs, head set problems, clock issues. The first down markers were wrong plenty of times Sal Capacchio said after the game. One side would say 3rd down, the other 2nd down. Robert Kraft is more powerful then jerry jones these days on the owners board. It honestly feels like watching the WWE when watching this team. Everything feels so unbelievable, and scripted.

[row_33]

4 hours ago, prissythecat said:

 

 

Not on this board where most  believe there is a conspiracy in the NFL to favor the Pats

every fanbase is convinced their team is the victim of a conspiracy 

[Sherlock Holmes]

4 hours ago, I'm Spartacus said:

The majority of fans believe the Pats*** cheat all the time. They have been caught with the couple of biggies you mention above,

but I do not believe they would waste valuable resources and effort to spy, tape, and do all this little stuff everyone thinks they do.

Good/excellent organizations shouldn't have to do this.  It's all about execution out on the field with good plays, coaching, and execution IMHO.

The cheating Pats thing has gotten overblown.

?

[RaoulDuke79]

F the Patriots. 

[billsfan_34]

51 minutes ago, wagon127 said:

The dominance of their franchise is suspect. Brady has only been injured to miss a game, once in his whole career (2008). The staff in gillette stadium are either the most incompetitent in the NFL, or they are cheating. Under-inflating footballs, head set problems, clock issues. The first down markers were wrong plenty of times Sal Capacchio said after the game. One side would say 3rd down, the other 2nd down. Robert Kraft is more powerful then jerry jones these days on the owners board. It honestly feels like watching the WWE when watching this team. Everything feels so unbelievable, and scripted.

I am not a conspiracy theorist however my quality background tells me trends never lie. Their latest little snafu of the Bengals sideline is yet another glimpse into the “Patriots way”.  No team ever in the history of the NFL has had this type of dynasty lasting this long. It makes one wonder how they always seem to be 3 steps ahead of everyone- always knowing what the D is doing and the O is doing. Of course, you have to execute but it is much easier when you know whats coming i.e. here comes a right cross so I better slide my head right- I am already thinking it before it has started. I won’t even get into Refs etc...Sure Bellicheat is a good coach but is he always better than every other coach in the league 90 percent of the time for 20 years? 

Edited December 24, 2019 by billsfan_34

[ToGoGo]

I don't think people comprehend the competitive advantage the Patriots receive from the things they've already been caught doing. For example, Deflategate was about reducing their fumbles, not throwing the football. From Slate:

Quote

Once again, a key takeaway is deadly obvious: Prior to 2007 the Patriots were right in line with the league averages across the other nondome teams. When you look team by team, they literally are in the middle of the pack for most seasons. But starting in 2007, all similarities totally vanish.

 

The statistical “jump” the Patriots make in the 2006 offseason, from one fumble every 39 plays to one fumble every 76 plays is nothing short of remarkable. Their trend line over this period is not even close to that of the rest of the NFL.

https://slate.com/culture/2015/01/stats-show-the-new-england-patriots-became-nearly-fumble-proof-after-a-2006-rule-change-pushed-by-tom-brady.html

 

Think of the competitive advantage of videotaping sideline signals vs. using your eyes and memory. The competitive advantage of Brady's helmet radio remaining on right up until the snap, and perhaps during the play. What about having a former military intelligence genius with a photographic memory given carte blanche (Ernie Adams). 

 

It's BAD what's been going on. That's just the stuff we know. Belichick doesn't do things for no reason. For example, the pick plays, they must have an exceptional advantage long-term for him to be using them out in the open.

 

My main point is, instead of fans looking for more ways the Patriots are cheating, they should comprehend the magnitude of the competitive advantage from the cheating already discovered. If fans don't realize that, then they won't appreciate anything new that is discovered. In my opinion, and not even speaking as a Bills fan, the entire record of all games the Patriots have played since 2001 should be thrown out. My other theory is that the reason all of their winning began as soon as Brady stepped in for Bledsoe, is that Brady showed himself to be willing to bend the rules to win, thus winning Belichick's confidence. 

[PromoTheRobot]

6 hours ago, I'm Spartacus said:

The majority of fans believe the Pats*** cheat all the time. They have been caught with the couple of biggies you mention above,

but I do not believe they would waste valuable resources and effort to spy, tape, and do all this little stuff everyone thinks they do.

Good/excellent organizations shouldn't have to do this.  It's all about execution out on the field with good plays, coaching, and execution IMHO.

The cheating Pats thing has gotten overblown.

 

So the Pats win all the time. Why? They're a great team? So why stoop to cheating?  

 

I have a theory. Anytime an individual or team sets amazing new records for performance, it's probably because they are cheating. Lance Armstrong was the greatest! Wrecked every cycling record. Turns out he was juiced to the max. Roger Clemons? Throwing heat at 40 for the Yankees. Juicing.  Mark McGiuire, Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds? You get the picture.

 

Patriots' two decades of domination. Why shouldn't there be a cloud of suspicion over their achievement? Why are the other 31 owners willing to go along? Because Roger Goodell says it's bad for the game if it came out the Patriots are 20-year frauds?

 

I have no doubt Bill belichick is a great coach and Tom Brady is the GOAT QB.  But why put an asterisk on all you do by taking these underhanded measures?

Edited December 24, 2019 by PromoTheRobot

[DC Tom]

5 hours ago, I'm Spartacus said:

The majority of fans believe the Pats*** cheat all the time. They have been caught with the couple of biggies you mention above,

but I do not believe they would waste valuable resources and effort to spy, tape, and do all this little stuff everyone thinks they do.

 

 

The thing that sets them apart is attention to detail.  You watch them, and you see they make far fewer small mistakes than other teams.

 

Their hallmark is paying attention to the little stuff.

 

So...yeah, "wasting valuable resources" on things like deflating balls, taping signals, spying on other teams' calls, etc. is entirely consistent with their methodology.  It's no different than finding every little loophole in the rule book, so you can do stupid ***** like lining up a tackle eligible in the slot and having him run backwards on the snap to confuse the defense, or pretending to have a head injury to try and draw a penalty.

[Prickly Pete]

5 hours ago, finn said:

The Patriots got caught cheating twice, with Spygate in 2007 and the inflated balls in 2014, and maybe again this season with the "innocent" filming of the Bengals sideline. So it's not unreasonable to assume they will cheat when and where they think they can get away with it. Yet I don't see any speculation along these lines anywhere. For instance, what's to stop them from installing microphones in the visitors' locker room at Gillette? Or eavesdropping on opposing teams' communications during a game? Or recruiting spies to report on other teams' practices? If you have the will and resources to cheat, the possibilities are endless. Someone here said Madden assumed his opponent was spying on the Raiders' practice before a playoff game and had his team stay after to install different plays. You don't want to get paranoid, but if I'm McDermott I might want to do the same thing, and more. 

 

 

 

 

I'm thinking they would do ALL those things. I think they have a Cheating Corp, with it's own coordinator, like "Offense , Defense, Special Teams, and Cheating"...it's just the 4th phase of the game. It might have some corporate jargon type name, like "Rules Expansion" or "Regulations Resources".

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2019 by 32ABBA

[Doc Brown]

5 hours ago, I'm Spartacus said:

I hate the Pats*** just as much as the next guy.

To me, the underhanded advantages they get are more about the non-calls against them and the bogus calls against their competition.

Why the ref's didn't call a face mask that Allen got near the end of the game is mind boggling! You KNOW they would have flagged the Bills if it was Brady.

I'd rather the refs be more fair and balanced on penalty calls, rather than worry about a microphone bug placed in an opponents locker room.

I have the opposite opinion where their underhanded advantage is unbridled cheating and the refs being biased towards them is overblown.  The risk of getting caught cheating (losing draft picks, being fined, suspensions, etc.) to them is worth the reward.  

[ChasBB]

6 hours ago, finn said:

The Patriots got caught cheating twice, with Spygate in 2007 and the inflated balls in 2014, and maybe again this season with the "innocent" filming of the Bengals sideline. So it's not unreasonable to assume they will cheat when and where they think they can get away with it. Yet I don't see any speculation along these lines anywhere. For instance, what's to stop them from installing microphones in the visitors' locker room at Gillette? Or eavesdropping on opposing teams' communications during a game? Or recruiting spies to report on other teams' practices? If you have the will and resources to cheat, the possibilities are endless. Someone here said Madden assumed his opponent was spying on the Raiders' practice before a playoff game and had his team stay after to install different plays. You don't want to get paranoid, but if I'm McDermott I might want to do the same thing, and more. 

 

 

 

I also recall some years ago that opponents' headsets didn't function properly at Gillette - never really heard any follow-up to that.  I guess that doesn't happen anymore since I have not heard of that recently, but who knows.  Hell, I'm not just concerned with Gillette.  I could see them with a small wireless camera in the trees next to Bills' practice field and some guy in a car at ECC capturing it all and sending it on to Ernie & Co.  Seriously, these cheaters know no limits.  If I were Bills' mgmt., I'd have every inch of their facilities and surrounding areas searched for cameras, bugs, etc.  - no joking here (wish I was).

 

[finn]

5 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I have the opposite opinion where their underhanded advantage is unbridled cheating and the refs being biased towards them is overblown.  The risk of getting caught cheating (losing draft picks, being fined, suspensions, etc.) to them is worth the reward.  

I agree. It's hard and very risky to conspire with refs, much easier to do the "little" things we're talking about here. It's working because the other teams are naive, or so it appears. McDermott catches Belichick's son closely watching the Bills' punt unit warming up before the first game, when the Patriots block a punt and score a few plays later, the difference in the game. It works to cheat. And it's certainly worth the risk. This Bengals taping episode, for instance: it looks like they're going to get away with it. McDermott "shoos" Belichick Jr. away. Wow, what a penalty for transgressing an unspoken rule. Once you cross that ethical boundary and persuade yourself that it's fine to cheat ("it's only cheating if you're caught"; "if you're not cheating you're losing" etc.) you're only limited by your nerve and resources, and Belichick has plenty of both. 

[Kiva]

It’s like I’m in the twilight zone. If? Did you watch the game Saturday?
 

They cheat 100%. 
 

What is it going to take for people to realize the entire league is rigged??