Buffalo Bills History Question

[JimS]

7 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Reported.  ?

And coal for you at Christmas.

Wow, thanks. ? Merry Christmas.

[JMF2006]

21 hours ago, JimS said:

Took a bit, but I came up with this:

https://tinyurl.com/8j4q

 

Oh my retina's

[Shaw66]

3 hours ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

What about @Shaw66?

 

He’s younger than me, approaching 70, but he knows a lot of shite about the Bills! 

I gotta put it in reverse if I want to approach 70 again.

 

My apologies in advance.: I know absolutely nothing about a fight song.  Not a thing.   But I had some thoughts about the subject and I wrote them.  It's a mix of my memories and the history I do know.  Ignore it if you aren't interested.

 

I don't anything about a fight song.  I'd guess, though, that all of the speculation here about it being the Bills fight song from the All-America conference team is correct.  

 

I recall that when the current Bills came along in 1959,  there was some reminiscing about the old Bills, and an occasional comment about how the Bills should have  gone into the NFL in 1950.  In the late 50s there still was talk about the team Buffalo had in the 40s. about the old Bills, and an occasional comment about how the Bills should have gone into the NFL in 1950.  In the late 50s there still was talk about the team Buffalo had in the 40s.  But it wasn't a strong tradition that was being passed down.

 

That there was a fight song makes sense, too.  You have to remember that in the 40s, college football was still the big game, not the NFL.   The NFL was created essentially to showcase the talent of great college players who had no college eligibility left.   College football was what it was all about.  Then the war came, now it's the late 40s and pro football is still trying to show that it was really viable.  College teams were supported by their colleges, so if football wasn't making money, that wasn't the end of the world.   The pros actually had to make money by selling tickets.  There was no tv and no tv revenue.   There were very few player endorsement deals or things like that.   It was almost more like what we think of as semi-pro now.  

 

The pro teams were trying to figure out how to fill the stadium, because that was how to generate revenue.  Who knew how to fill stadiums?  Michigan, Ohio State, Notre Dame, etc.  What did they do?   They had a fight song, for one.   They also had a marching band, and when the Bills began in 1960 they used to have visiting marching bands more often than they do now.  They did it because the big-time football experience, the college experience, had a marching band, so maybe that would work in the pros, too.  I think in the 50s the Colts had their own marching band.  

 

So I wouldn't be surprised at all if the first thought in 1959 was "let's use the old fight song."  After all, the name was chosen intentionally to tie back to the earlier Bills.  I think some people actually thought of 1959 being the resurrection of the earlier Bills.  Denver, Oakland, San Diego, Dallas, Boston, Houston all were getting franchises in cities that never had had a major pro football team.  The Jets were in a city that already had an active NFL team, and the Bills were the only AFL team that had an actual history of major pro football and lost it.   

 

As far as younger fans were concerned, they really weren't interested in that history.  They saw football as a fun and exciting thing to go see.  They weren't living out the traditions of their forefathers or anything like that.  I think I saw it as a more natural extension of the College All-America games from the previous few years.   The new Browns did an excellent job of tacking onto the old Browns history, and that history was something of legend.   The Mets did a pretty good job of tacking onto Dodger and Giant lore.  I never had the sense that this was the continuation of a tradition.   

 

I was  teenager then.   I thought college fight songs were pretty hokey.   Old fashioned.   Not necessary.   I wasn't interested a fight song.   And I think it was generally a young crowd that felt the same way.   

 

Which is really a long, long way to say if there was an effort to bring back the fight song, it fell on deaf ears.  

[ComradeKayAdams]

7 hours ago, KRC said:

 

What would I know about the Bills of the AAFC? 

 

The Bisons of 1946 (became the BIlls in 1947) had a fight song (Lyrics by Jim Tranter):

Break'em up, you Bisons,

Beat'em down;

Take the Blue and SIlver

to the crown:

Here's a swell chance to yell

For the boys who fight -

Ring the bell with a score

Just to prove we're right.

Break'em up, you Bisons,

Beat'em down;

For we've got to win that football crown

Let'em buck, let'em run,

Give'em luck, and when they're done

Break'em up, you Bisons,

Beat'em down.

 

As far as the Bills coming from the AAFC to the NFL, they had a few things going against them. First, they did not have a single owner to make decisions. They had a corporation (similar to Green Bay). While the NFL did not have it codified at the time, it was an unwritten rule that you needed one person in a position to make all decisions for the team.

 

The second issue was Bert Bell. He had stated that he would put together a schedule that included the Bills. When they got to the league meetings, Bell never had that schedule. As a result, Dan Reeves said that he was voting 'No' because he wanted to know where he would be playing and when. Since it needed to be a unanimous vote, his vote sealed Buffalo's fate. Baltimore was admitted into the NFL because they essentially bribed George Preston Marshall into allowing them in. Baltimore was an infringement on the territorial rights of Washington, so with the bribe, he suddenly had a change of heart.

 

Fun Fact: The reason why Buffalo, Los Angeles and San Francisco joined the AAFC was because the NFL refused to admit them. There were two Buffalo contingents that tried to get into the NFL. Sam Cordovano's was the strongest. His eventually became the Buffalo Bisons/Bills in the AAFC.

 

Great post, KRC! My thoughts on this:

 

Regardless of the excuses the NFL publicly provided, I don't think they ever intended to give Buffalo a pro franchise again.

 

One reason why I feel this way is because of the documented longstanding grudge that the most influential owner in the league, George Halas, had toward Frank McNeil (owner of the Buffalo All-Americans), dating all the way back to the 1920's.

 

But since the early 1930's, we also know that the NFL had been actively trying to move away from the Great Lakes small-town franchise model of its past. A lot had to do with money, of course, and wanting to bring the league into bigger markets throughout the country, but lots of players from southern colleges also didn't want to play in bad weather (falls and winters back then were even colder than they are now).

 

The ONLY reason Buffalo has an NFL team in 2019 is because the AFL merger stipulations forced the league to accept the Bills. And the only reason Ralph Wilson took a chance on Buffalo after the rejection of his first choice in Miami was because of the incredible support the AAFC Bills had (which was way disproportionate to their actual on-field success). Factor in the collapsing Buffalo economy after the St. Lawrence seaway construction of 1959, the de-industrialization of the Midwest since the 1970's...there's absolutely no way Buffalo would have ever been allowed a pro team if the AFL hadn't succeeded.

 

Post more often, KRC! Many of us here like reading about pro football history and Bills history. Of all the 32 NFL franchises and of all the 30 NFL cities, the Bills of Buffalo are probably the most unique and the most interesting. They are like the tragic version of the Green Bay Packers story. And yet the fans still come out to greet them at the airport following their 35th loss in 40 tries against the Pats this century....as my esteemed colleague on GMFB, Nate Burleson, says: the Buffalo Bills are America's "spirit animal." 

 

[ComradeKayAdams]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Which is really a long, long way to say if there was an effort to bring back the fight song, it fell on deaf ears.  

 

If everyone gets tired of the Shout song, they can try resurrecting this one. Just replace "silver" with "red" in this song. Maybe modernize it a bit with a mixed beat that is absolute FIRE.

[Scott7975]

12 minutes ago, KayAdams said:

 

Great post, KRC! My thoughts on this:

 

Regardless of the excuses the NFL publicly provided, I don't think they ever intended to give Buffalo a pro franchise again.

 

One reason why I feel this way is because of the documented longstanding grudge that the most influential owner in the league, George Halas, had toward Frank McNeil (owner of the Buffalo All-Americans), dating all the way back to the 1920's.

 

But since the early 1930's, we also know that the NFL had been actively trying to move away from the Great Lakes small-town franchise model of its past. A lot had to do with money, of course, and wanting to bring the league into bigger markets throughout the country, but lots of players from southern colleges also didn't want to play in bad weather (falls and winters back then were even colder than they are now).

 

The ONLY reason Buffalo has an NFL team in 2019 is because the AFL merger stipulations forced the league to accept the Bills. And the only reason Ralph Wilson took a chance on Buffalo after the rejection of his first choice in Miami was because of the incredible support the AAFC Bills had (which was way disproportionate to their actual on-field success). Factor in the collapsing Buffalo economy after the St. Lawrence seaway construction of 1959, the de-industrialization of the Midwest since the 1970's...there's absolutely no way Buffalo would have ever been allowed a pro team if the AFL hadn't succeeded.

 

Post more often, KRC! Many of us here like reading about pro football history and Bills history. Of all the 32 NFL franchises and of all the 30 NFL cities, the Bills of Buffalo are probably the most unique and the most interesting. They are like the tragic version of the Green Bay Packers story. And yet the fans still come out to greet them at the airport following their 35th loss in 40 tries against the Pats this century....as my esteemed colleague on GMFB, Nate Burleson, says: the Buffalo Bills are America's "spirit animal." 

 

 

And yet the NFL wouldn't be the NFL today if not for all Ralph Wilson did for it.

 

Fantastic article on some of the things he did here: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000336975/article/ralph-wilson-jrs-impact-reaches-well-beyond-buffalo-bills

[ChasBB]

10 hours ago, KRC said:

 

What would I know about the Bills of the AAFC? 

 

The Bisons of 1946 (became the BIlls in 1947) had a fight song (Lyrics by Jim Tranter):

[snip]

 

Interesting - Jim Tranter's name also comes up in this article about the University of Buffalo's fight song:

 

https://library.buffalo.edu/exhibitions/pdf/ubsongsummary.pdf

 

Looks like another was chosen, but he had a submission, it seems.

[KRC]

14 hours ago, KayAdams said:

 

Great post, KRC! My thoughts on this:

 

Regardless of the excuses the NFL publicly provided, I don't think they ever intended to give Buffalo a pro franchise again.

 

One reason why I feel this way is because of the documented longstanding grudge that the most influential owner in the league, George Halas, had toward Frank McNeil (owner of the Buffalo All-Americans), dating all the way back to the 1920's.

 

But since the early 1930's, we also know that the NFL had been actively trying to move away from the Great Lakes small-town franchise model of its past. A lot had to do with money, of course, and wanting to bring the league into bigger markets throughout the country, but lots of players from southern colleges also didn't want to play in bad weather (falls and winters back then were even colder than they are now).

 

The ONLY reason Buffalo has an NFL team in 2019 is because the AFL merger stipulations forced the league to accept the Bills. And the only reason Ralph Wilson took a chance on Buffalo after the rejection of his first choice in Miami was because of the incredible support the AAFC Bills had (which was way disproportionate to their actual on-field success). Factor in the collapsing Buffalo economy after the St. Lawrence seaway construction of 1959, the de-industrialization of the Midwest since the 1970's...there's absolutely no way Buffalo would have ever been allowed a pro team if the AFL hadn't succeeded.

 

Post more often, KRC! Many of us here like reading about pro football history and Bills history. Of all the 32 NFL franchises and of all the 30 NFL cities, the Bills of Buffalo are probably the most unique and the most interesting. They are like the tragic version of the Green Bay Packers story. And yet the fans still come out to greet them at the airport following their 35th loss in 40 tries against the Pats this century....as my esteemed colleague on GMFB, Nate Burleson, says: the Buffalo Bills are America's "spirit animal." 

 

 

Halas and McNeil had issues stemming from the 1921 "Championship." However, I doubt that was the reason why Buffalo did not have an NFL franchise after 1929. They did give lame excuses like weather for the reason why Buffalo should not be considered in 1950. However, when you looked at Green Bay and New York City, the weather in Buffalo was better in November and December on average. Then they pointed to attendance. Buffalo in the AAFC had better attendance than some NFL teams, so that shot that excuse down. Buffalo was considered a few times prior to 1946 for an NFL franchise. They were turned down because the NFL did not have the resources to expand around WWII. That is when the AAFC was formed and Buffalo joined, along with Morabito's San Francisco franchise and Bing Crosby's Los Angeles franchise. All were rejected by the NFL at the same time.

 

However, when the vote came down, it was the lack of a schedule that was the reason and Bert Bell is to blame for that lack of a schedule. I talked to Bell's son about it and he knew of no reason for the lack of a schedule. Nothing in the newspapers of the time explained anything about the lack of a schedule. Nothing came up in the interviews I did for my book. It is inexplicable. 

[Steve O]

On 12/23/2019 at 9:27 PM, Formerly Allan in MD said:

It may go back to when Buffalo was in the old All-America conference.  George Ratterman was our quarterback, in the late '40s.

In 47 Ratterman's 22 TD passes set the rookie record for touchdown passes by a professional that stood until Peyton Manning broke it in 98.

[Rubes]

Just want to say thanks to everyone for an awesome and fascinating thread!

 

[Dan Darragh]

On 12/23/2019 at 11:47 PM, Gugny said:

@Chandler#81

@Cripple Creek

@plenzmd1

 

These are the oldest guys I know of on here.

ahem!!!

[rockpile]

On 12/23/2019 at 5:23 PM, KayAdams said:

Yes, it is 100% a reference to the fight song of the original AAFC Buffalo Bills franchise (1946-49). I can't find the lyrics, but here's one reference to it (with an amusing description of perhaps the first instance of Bills fans greeting the team at airports following games):

 

https://buffalonews.com/2019/12/04/bills-playoff-win-causes-a-near-riot-in-baltimore-1948/

 

Also, the fight song is being played in this video, but once again...no lyrics:

 

 

 

The article neglects to mention that Baltimore fans actually tore up wooden bleachers in the stadium and set them on fire!

Edited December 28, 2019 by rockpile
context

[rockpile]

On 12/23/2019 at 5:58 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I do not know that.   They were pretty young themselves then but maybe @rockpile or @Guffalo would know or have it somewhere because their families were very involved with the team/booster scene in the 1960's.  

 

I do not have anything on the original Bills AFL fight song. I am looking for the original Buffalo Bills Boosters Club, Inc. incorporation papers from 1960 that include my father'as signature. The corporation is why they are Boosters, not Backers! I am also looking for the Buffalo Boosters Bulletin (fan newspaper) from December 1961, wishing club members a Happy Holiday. My father was listed as Club Treasurer. I went to several games at The Rockpile, and actually met Tom Day.

 

 

Edited December 26, 2019 by rockpile
additions

[rockpile]

17 hours ago, rockpile said:

 

I do not have anything on the original Bills AFL fight song. I am looking for the original Buffalo Bills Boosters Club, Inc. incorporation papers from 1960 that include my father'as signature. The corporation is why they are Boosters, not Backers! I am also looking for the Buffalo Boosters Bulletin (fan newspaper) from December 1961, wishing club members a Happy Holiday. My father was listed as Club Treasurer. I went to several games at The Rockpile, and actually met Tom Day.

 

 

 

Just to clarify, I have the highlighted items - I am looking in my house! They are in a box somewhere!  

 

I wanted to wear my father's Boosters topcoat (from about 1961 or 1962) this Sunday but it is wool, and they are expecting rain. It would weigh a TON if it was soaking wet!

Edited December 27, 2019 by rockpile

[KRC]

19 hours ago, rockpile said:

 

The article neglects to mention that Baltimore fans actually tore up wooden bleachers in the stadium at set them on ire!

 

It was an interesting game to propel the Bills to the championship game with Cleveland. From my book:

At that point, things became a little strange. With about five minutes remaining in the game and in the midst of a Buffalo offensive drive, a Ratterman pass to Mutryn was dropped by the halfback at midfield. Baltimore guard Dub Garrett fell on the ball, where he apparently recovered a fumble for Baltimore. Head Linesman Fay Vincent – father of former Major League Baseball Commissioner Fay Vincent – ruled that the pass was incomplete, because Mutryn did not have possession and control of the ball. Baltimore obviously disagreed and argued that he had control and lost possession. The ball was given back to Buffalo and they continued the drive. After about a minute of play, Ratterman tossed the ball to Baldwin for a 25-yard touchdown and a 21-17 lead. The ruling by the head linesman gave the momentum to Buffalo and Baltimore struggled. Baltimore was desperate. With under three minutes to play, Tittle opened up an aerial assault in an attempt to move the Colts downfield. That ended quickly as fullback Ed Hirsch intercepted a Tittle pass on the Colt 18-yard line and returned it for the final score of the game. The Bills won 28-17 and faced the Cleveland Browns for the 1948 AAFC Championship.

 

Bills back Alex Wizbicki recalled that it was the defense that made the difference from the previous week. “We put in special defenses. Special defensive maneuvers that were put in because of certain things they were doing. They revealed certain weaknesses, so we had a special defense set up for that particular game.” He commented further on the defensive schemes, “We used a defense where we had five man up fronts, three behind them. A 5-3-3. The linemen would go one way and the linebackers would go the other way in rushing into the line. So that, in itself, created confusion on the part of Baltimore.”

 

In spite of the defensive strategy changes, Baltimore still racked up an impressive 394 yards of total offense in the game, compared to Buffalo’s 297 yards. Since Buffalo only had five offensive plays in the third quarter, it stood to reason that Baltimore had an easy victory. However, the pivotal point in the game was the referee call to give the ball back to Buffalo after an apparent fumble. Did Mutryn fumble or was it the correct call? Because of what happened on the field, the Baltimore fans were irate. Since Baltimore had a 17-14 lead and possession of the ball, the fans felt that their team could run out the clock or score again to put the game out of reach. In their opinion, bad officiating cost their team the game and the fans stormed the officiating crew. According to one report, “Numerous Colts fans, angered over penalties that had nullified some long gains, stormed the field and attacked the officiating crew. The officials were pummeled and sideline judge Thomas Whelan suffered a black eye before police could disperse the crowd.” Police and players from both teams held off the crowd to protect the officials. When asked about his memories of the incident, Bills’ end Zeke O’Connor recalled, “Oh, yes. I do remember it. My family had come up from New York. The crowd got so unruly that I never got a chance to say ‘Hello’ to my dad or brother, who came, because they rushed us in and out to a bus so that we wouldn’t be involved in any of the mêlée.”

 

 

[Cub Reporter]

Just wanted to thank everyone for their contributions. It appears we have an answer. I had very little knowledge about the Bills in their AAFC days. This thread has so many interesting tidbits about Bills history. I think next season I'm going to be wearing a Ratterman Blue and Silver jersey haha

[Chandler#81]

8 hours ago, Cub Reporter said:

Just wanted to thank everyone for their contributions. It appears we have an answer. I had very little knowledge about the Bills in their AAFC days. This thread has so many interesting tidbits about Bills history. I think next season I'm going to be wearing a Ratterman Blue and Silver jersey haha

   @KRC , What’s the title of your book and where can it be found? Thanks!

[CLTbills]

On 12/23/2019 at 4:47 PM, Gugny said:

@Chandler#81

@Cripple Creek

@plenzmd1

 

These are the oldest guys I know of on here.

wow... shots fired.

[KRC]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

   @KRC , What’s the title of your book and where can it be found? Thanks!

 

For the AAFC stuff, I have two books. One is on the Bills and the other is on the league itself.

 

The Original Buffalo Bills: A History of the All-America Football Conference Team, 1946-1949 (https://mcfarlandbooks.com/product/the-original-buffalo-bills/)

The All-America Football Conference (https://mcfarlandbooks.com/product/the-all-america-football-conference/)

 

You can buy both from the publisher. You may find some on Amazon and Barnes and Noble, but sometimes, they show as out of stock. The publisher has them in stock.

https://mcfarlandbooks.com/?s=Crippen&search_id=product&post_type=product

 

[rockpile]

On 12/27/2019 at 12:28 PM, KRC said:

 

It was an interesting game to propel the Bills to the championship game with Cleveland. From my book:

At that point, things became a little strange. With about five minutes remaining in the game and in the midst of a Buffalo offensive drive, a Ratterman pass to Mutryn was dropped by the halfback at midfield. Baltimore guard Dub Garrett fell on the ball, where he apparently recovered a fumble for Baltimore. Head Linesman Fay Vincent – father of former Major League Baseball Commissioner Fay Vincent – ruled that the pass was incomplete, because Mutryn did not have possession and control of the ball. Baltimore obviously disagreed and argued that he had control and lost possession. The ball was given back to Buffalo and they continued the drive. After about a minute of play, Ratterman tossed the ball to Baldwin for a 25-yard touchdown and a 21-17 lead. The ruling by the head linesman gave the momentum to Buffalo and Baltimore struggled. Baltimore was desperate. With under three minutes to play, Tittle opened up an aerial assault in an attempt to move the Colts downfield. That ended quickly as fullback Ed Hirsch intercepted a Tittle pass on the Colt 18-yard line and returned it for the final score of the game. The Bills won 28-17 and faced the Cleveland Browns for the 1948 AAFC Championship.

 

Bills back Alex Wizbicki recalled that it was the defense that made the difference from the previous week. “We put in special defenses. Special defensive maneuvers that were put in because of certain things they were doing. They revealed certain weaknesses, so we had a special defense set up for that particular game.” He commented further on the defensive schemes, “We used a defense where we had five man up fronts, three behind them. A 5-3-3. The linemen would go one way and the linebackers would go the other way in rushing into the line. So that, in itself, created confusion on the part of Baltimore.”

 

In spite of the defensive strategy changes, Baltimore still racked up an impressive 394 yards of total offense in the game, compared to Buffalo’s 297 yards. Since Buffalo only had five offensive plays in the third quarter, it stood to reason that Baltimore had an easy victory. However, the pivotal point in the game was the referee call to give the ball back to Buffalo after an apparent fumble. Did Mutryn fumble or was it the correct call? Because of what happened on the field, the Baltimore fans were irate. Since Baltimore had a 17-14 lead and possession of the ball, the fans felt that their team could run out the clock or score again to put the game out of reach. In their opinion, bad officiating cost their team the game and the fans stormed the officiating crew. According to one report, “Numerous Colts fans, angered over penalties that had nullified some long gains, stormed the field and attacked the officiating crew. The officials were pummeled and sideline judge Thomas Whelan suffered a black eye before police could disperse the crowd.” Police and players from both teams held off the crowd to protect the officials. When asked about his memories of the incident, Bills’ end Zeke O’Connor recalled, “Oh, yes. I do remember it. My family had come up from New York. The crowd got so unruly that I never got a chance to say ‘Hello’ to my dad or brother, who came, because they rushed us in and out to a bus so that we wouldn’t be involved in any of the mêlée.”

 

 

 

Just a tidbit:  I met Y.A. Tittle in Rochester in the 1990's. He signed his HOF football card for me, as well as his picture in the NY Giants team photo, included in Sam Huff's autobiography Tough Stuff.