Mojo44 Posted December 24, 2019 Posted December 24, 2019 3 hours ago, 32ABBA said: The Bills are not going to seriously pursue Donald. "Hard empirical evidence"... about his attitude? https://theramswire.usatoday.com/2019/07/16/nfl-rams-run-defense-pro-football-focus-ranking/ Their defense has ranked near the bottom of the league the past couple years, and is currently 23rd. For all you know he might be the perfect process guy. Precisely! About his attitude! Your negative assertion about him was entirely unsupported. That stuff could have come from anywhere. Make a case for it being at least reasonably true when you say something like that. For all you know he might be the perfect process guy.
Aussie Joe Posted December 24, 2019 Posted December 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: There is simply no good reason to move on from Trubisky at this point. He’s playing poorly, but I believe it costs them cap space to cut or trade him. Cam would be intriguing. I wonder if they could get him for something reasonable. If they could trade for him, his cap hit would be $19M, which is really not that much. Move on from him as the Starter... Keep him as the backup if you need to get some value for the sunk cost..I have seen them several times this year including yesterday and I do not rate him at all.. Their fans are over him to say the least and they are wasting a good D.. I don’t know if they can get Newton or not but they need an experienced guy on that team to lead them in the short term.. 1
BringBackOrton Posted December 24, 2019 Posted December 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: Move on from him as the Starter... Keep him as the backup if you need to get some value for the sunk cost..I have seen them several times this year including yesterday and I do not rate him at all.. Their fans are over him to say the least and they are wasting a good D.. I don’t know if they can get Newton or not but they need an experienced guy on that team to lead them in the short term.. I agree. They are the 2015 Bills. They need to bring in two guys to compete with Mitch for the job. Cam and a rookie would be ideal probably. I could see Teddy going there as well. 1
Rc2catch Posted December 24, 2019 Posted December 24, 2019 20 minutes ago, mannc said: And they didn't have one last year. Josh Jacobs, for example, would have been a very nice piece for their offense to have this year. Perhaps Trubisky would not have regressed if they had given him more to work with. You don't think they could use a mid-first round pick this year, with all the great receivers coming out? Or they could of just kept Jordan Howard. They have some decent weapons over there. Nagy just ran out of gas. He borrowed what he could from the chiefs and Andy Reid and has not been able to add more to it. I put 100% of the blame on Nagy. Their defense is good, he’s an offensive coach and hasn’t been able to call good offenses 2
BringBackOrton Posted December 24, 2019 Posted December 24, 2019 21 minutes ago, mannc said: And they didn't have one last year. Josh Jacobs, for example, would have been a very nice piece for their offense to have this year. Perhaps Trubisky would not have regressed if they had given him more to work with. You don't think they could use a mid-first round pick this year, with all the great receivers coming out? Just to address this. Their offensive core essentially stayed the same between 2018 and 2019. They got rid of Jordan Howard and acquired David Montgomery. Their offense went from 9th in points to 30th. I don’t know what rookie WR you thought was singlehandedly stopping that level of regression, but I can’t think of one. And sure. A first round pick this year would be nice. You know what is nicer? Khalil Mack. Do I think there is going to be a player at pick #18 more impactful than Khalil Mack. NOPE. 3
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 24, 2019 Posted December 24, 2019 3 hours ago, LabattBlue said: So the Bills can get Donald and JuJu...how about Kittle while they are at it...rumor has it, Shanahan hates productive TE's Bosa too !! 1 1
mannc Posted December 24, 2019 Posted December 24, 2019 (edited) 41 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Just to address this. Their offensive core essentially stayed the same between 2018 and 2019. They got rid of Jordan Howard and acquired David Montgomery. Their offense went from 9th in points to 30th. I don’t know what rookie WR you thought was singlehandedly stopping that level of regression, but I can’t think of one. And sure. A first round pick this year would be nice. You know what is nicer? Khalil Mack. Do I think there is going to be a player at pick #18 more impactful than Khalil Mack. NOPE. So you're saying that no rookie this year would have helped and no rookie next year would have helped. OK, but that's impossible to prove. Here's the bottom line: As good as Mack is and has been for Chicago, the trade appears to be a failure. The Bears were hoping to get to--and maybe win--a Super Bowl in a narrow window. They had a great record last year, but crapped out in the first round at home. Then they pretty much stunk this year. Their offense and defense regressed, they aren't sure if they've got a QB, and they have no first round pick (again). Mack is still a great player, but he'll be 29 in February. How many more years of greatness does he have left? Edited December 24, 2019 by mannc
Rc2catch Posted December 24, 2019 Posted December 24, 2019 28 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Bosa too !! One or both? I heard LA will rebuild and not bring Rivers back. Might as well snag both Bosas.. Rivers and Tyrod to backup Allen, and Lynn can come back and coach as an assistant. Sky is the limit 1
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 24, 2019 Posted December 24, 2019 Just now, Rc2catch said: One or both? I heard LA will rebuild and not bring Rivers back. Might as well snag both Bosas.. Rivers and Tyrod to backup Allen, and Lynn can come back and coach as an assistant. Sky is the limit definitely both Bosas but not the rest lol.
Rc2catch Posted December 24, 2019 Posted December 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: definitely both Bosas but not the rest lol. We have 90 million to spend. Plus we’re already cutting Murphy, Hughes, Star, Kroft.. Rivers will come cheap he has like 13 kids to feed. Tyrod can play McKenzies spot next year and just fake jet sweep 20 times a game. Think outside the box here ?? 1
BringBackOrton Posted December 24, 2019 Posted December 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, mannc said: So you're saying that no rookie this year would have helped and no rookie next year would have helped. OK, but that's impossible to prove. Here's the bottom line: As good as Mack is and has been for Chicago, the trade appears to be a failure. The Bears were hoping to get to--and maybe win--a Super Bowl in a narrow window. They had a great record last year, but crapped out in the first round at home. Then they pretty much stunk this year. Their offense and defense regressed, they aren't sure if they've got a QB, and they have no first round pick (again). Mack is still a great player, but he'll be 29 in February. How many more years of greatness does he have left? Do you know what else is impossible to prove? That a rookie would have helped. Do you know what is possible to prove? That Khalil Mack improved that defense TREMENDOUSLY. Their defense was 6th in points this year from 1st. Hardly “stunk.”. That regression is easily explainable by the offensive nosedive. Khalil Mack has at least 3-4 years left, probably more. You know who else is 29? John Brown, how many more years does he have? Are we playing the game where anyone almost 30 in the NFL not on the Bills is about to retire, but the ones on the Bills are Gucci? So basically, if you trade a first round pick and don’t win a Super Bowl, it’s a failure. Can we extend that to second round picks? What about FA signings? Maybe the Bills shouldn’t pay Yangonkue $90M, if we don’t win the Super Bowl next year, it’s a failure!
Tesla03 Posted December 24, 2019 Posted December 24, 2019 not worth the risk. our defense is fine right now, and will be for the next 3 years or so. if we had a top 10 offense and Allen was out there putting up 28 points a game but we were still losing that's when you invest heavy on defense. this team needs to put all their focus on improving our offense and giving Allen more weapons to work with, don't even think about defense right now.
mannc Posted December 24, 2019 Posted December 24, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Do you know what else is impossible to prove? That a rookie would have helped. Do you know what is possible to prove? That Khalil Mack improved that defense TREMENDOUSLY. Their defense was 6th in points this year from 1st. Hardly “stunk.”. That regression is easily explainable by the offensive nosedive. Khalil Mack has at least 3-4 years left, probably more. You know who else is 29? John Brown, how many more years does he have? Are we playing the game where anyone almost 30 in the NFL not on the Bills is about to retire, but the ones on the Bills are Gucci? So basically, if you trade a first round pick and don’t win a Super Bowl, it’s a failure. Can we extend that to second round picks? What about FA signings? Maybe the Bills shouldn’t pay Yangonkue $90M, if we don’t win the Super Bowl next year, it’s a failure! It’s not impossible to prove that the Mack trade has been a failure for Chicago. It’s a fact. Go ask Bears fans. And I must have missed the part where we gave up two first round picks for John Brown. Big difference between signing a big name free agent and giving up two first round picks for a player you then have to sign to a huge deal, but you already know that... Edited December 24, 2019 by mannc
BringBackOrton Posted December 24, 2019 Posted December 24, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, mannc said: It’s not impossible to prove that the Mack trade has been a failure for Chicago. It’s a fact. Go ask Bears fans. And I must have missed the part where we gave up two first round picks for John Brown. Big difference between signing a big name free agent and giving up two first round picks for a player you then have to sign to a huge deal, but you already know that... Ask a fan is your definition? Lol. You also get a better player. Getting really good players is bad if you don’t win a SuperBowl. I’ll keep that rule in mind when we sign Tre White to massive extension. We gave up a first and paid him and didn’t win a Super Bowl???? FAILURE! Edited December 24, 2019 by BringBackOrton
NoSaint Posted December 24, 2019 Posted December 24, 2019 8 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said: lol, ok, you guys win. he's totally not expensive and I was way off in saying $25M ? yes on the rams you overshot by 10% and for our cap that’s nearly a 30% overstatement. he’s not cheap but you high balled it quite a bit to push your point. Nothing wrong with saying 18m a year is a lot.
NoSaint Posted December 24, 2019 Posted December 24, 2019 8 hours ago, QCity said: Over index in talent? What? No, every front office does not trade away their 1st round draft picks. obviously you mentioned the rams and cowboys. seahawks have traded high picks Multiple times in this regime including a first patriots for cooks! kc for Frank Clark steelers for Minkah! texans went a bit wild bears for Mack saints have dealt several for draft picks (Ingram and Davenport) obviously some flops like browns with obj or cincy for Cordy Or emergency moves like the vikes getting bradford I just rattled off nearly half of the current front office regimes just off hand on my phone including most contenders and pretty much anyone you’d likely refer to as a credible front office. you can’t be scared of making moves to win. 3
Alphadawg7 Posted December 24, 2019 Posted December 24, 2019 7 hours ago, BringBackOrton said: I mean, how much do the Bears really need? They have $10M in space next year, and if they cut Prince Amakumara, they free up another $9M. They don’t have a first rounder rookie eating into that space either. Really, the Bears are in fine shape. They need Mitch to get better or get another QB in that room. They can easily draft one in the second, like a Justin Herbert or Eason, sign a Fitzpatrick or a Bridgewater to compete, and EASILY compete in the NFC North next year. They are gonna finish likely 8-8 or 7-9 after making the playoffs because their QB regressed and their offense got figured out a little bit. They aren’t 3-13 this year. They would have been better off if they were 3-13. How did going 7-9 so much work out for Bills all those years? Or trading multiple first round picks work out? Bottom line. Bears are facing a tough road if Trubisky doesnt magically go from Crap to good next year. They have a bad cap situation, guys they are likely going to lose soon because of it, and no premium picks to help fill those spots and also find a new QB. You dont mortgage your future on a defensive player when your QB is not settled...period. It would be utterly stupid for the Bills to go get Donald, and I love Donald and watch him play all the time here in LA as Rams are my second team...distant second, but still my second team. We have a championship defense already and we just invested the 9th pick in the draft on a DT that is supposed to potentially compare to Donald to go along with a returning Horrible Harry and a likely resigned Jordan. Trading for Donald would be as foolish as drafting Spiller 9th overall when we already had BOTH Lynch and Jackson on the roster. This team is NOT a DT away from being a serious SB contender...it is however, a couple offensive weapons away from being one. For example...Jordan is second to only Donald in the NFL for sacks from a DT this year. Swapping Donald in this year for Jordan would not at all change our record. We did not lose any of our 5 games this year because we had Jordan and Oliver instead of Donald. We did however lose multiple games because we couldn't score more points when our D held the opponent to a low score. Its utterly insane to trade picks and tie up the cap space for Donald right now. We absolutely need to focus our draft assets and cap space heavy this offseason on the offense. 2 1
Doc Brown Posted December 24, 2019 Posted December 24, 2019 Giving up a king's ransom for an aging DT with a huge contract is exactly what this team needs to get over the top. Any other brilliant threads? 1
JoshAllin Posted December 24, 2019 Posted December 24, 2019 No, but if one of rams CB's are free then yea
Prickly Pete Posted December 24, 2019 Posted December 24, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, Mojo44 said: For all you know he might be the perfect process guy. Precisely! About his attitude! Your negative assertion about him was entirely unsupported. That stuff could have come from anywhere. Make a case for it being at least reasonably true when you say something like that. For all you know he might be the perfect process guy. What would you consider "making a case"...is there a statistic for it? Their run defense has been poor.... I don't know how to support it with "hard evidence". DO I think he is a very good player, who would be worthy of being drafted by the Bills, if that were the situation? OF ***** COURSE! But that's NOT the situation. The situation is "Do you want to give up a king's ransom for a player that is a sack machine on a team with a loaded D-line, who will be 29 years old, and your team already has a top end defense?". NO. Again, it doesn't really matter, because the Bills WILL NOT SIGN DONALD. Edited December 24, 2019 by 32ABBA
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