Has there been a "great" coach who is clearly conservative?

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

yeah 50 years ago. The days of read and react are long over, you have to attack on offense and defense if you want win deep in the playoffs. We need to dictate to to our opponent not the other way around.

 

 

 

 

Not to mention he was always aggressive. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

6 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

It seems so obvious. The only reason it may not be true.

 

its true.

 

coach is the Best coach ive ever seen at building a culture and getting everyone going in the right direction but now McDermott needs to grow and learn that playing not to lose really means playing not to win.

 

McD says he tries to grow every day and i have hope he will, its just frustrating to revert back to slow ball when the hurry up was working so well.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Not to mention he was always aggressive. 

 

Have to be aggressive, cant be conservative if you want to win.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Buffalo Barbarian

[Kelly the Dog]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

its true.

 

coach is the Best coach ive ever seen at building a culture and getting everyone going in the right direction but now McDermott needs to grow and learn that playing not to lose really means playing not to win.

 

McD says he tries to grow every day and i have hope he will, its just frustrating to revert back to slow ball when the hurry up was working so well.

 

 

 

Great, great point BB. He says everyday that the players need to get better every day. And to his credit he says that he and other coaches need to, as well. Let's see if he does it. He has changed a little but not much. 

[JoshAllin]

They play a good balance of aggressive and conservative, but I would like them to play more  on the aggressive when they have the lead or in the 4th

[Kelly the Dog]

The object of the game is to win it all. It's not to win the most games. Sure, you need to win games first and make the playoffs first. McDermott has clearly been able to do that and it should not be underestimated. But the object is to win it all. You have to be aggressive to win it all. I don't think that is even a question. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

43 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Great, great point BB. He says everyday that the players need to get better every day. And to his credit he says that he and other coaches need to, as well. Let's see if he does it. He has changed a little but not much. 

 

I thought he did after the Cleveland loss but we went back to slow ball against Pittsburgh.

 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

I thought he did after the Cleveland loss but we went back to slow ball against Pittsburgh.

 

 

Yep. It was dumb against the Steelers and it didn't work. The fact they won is immaterial. It rewarded bad behavior. They're clearly better with three wide, one TE and one RB. And in the no huddle. It's not even close. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

Yep. It was dumb against the Steelers and it didn't work. The fact they won is immaterial. It rewarded bad behavior. They're clearly better with three wide, one TE and one RB. And in the no huddle. It's not even close. 

 

For me its not going 3 wide, although that seems to be our best personnel grouping. We need to and can hurry up regardless of formation and format , 11, 21, 22 whatever , hurry up, dictate to the Defense and keep them on their heals.

 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

For me its not going 3 wide, although that seems to be our best personnel grouping. We need to and can hurry up regardless of formation and format , 11, 21, 22 whatever , hurry up, dictate to the Defense and keep them on their heals.

 

 

To me the spread is more important. Singletary is just ridiculous at making people miss, so they less players in the box the easier it is. Josh is much better when the defense is not bunched up all in the box for numerous different reasons, especially running when the blocking breaks down. He's able to scramble and run up the middle way better when they go three wide. It's not even close. The Ravens, Steelers and Pats are at their best when they crowd the line and pressure you. It makes NO sense to draw the defense in. None. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

To me the spread is more important. Singletary is just ridiculous at making people miss, so they less players in the box the easier it is. Josh is much better when the defense is not bunched up all in the box for numerous different reasons, especially running when the blocking breaks down. He's able to scramble and run up the middle way better when they go three wide. It's not even close. The Ravens, Steelers and Pats are at their best when they crowd the line and pressure you. It makes NO sense to draw the defense in. None. 

 

its important but the ravens sacked us to death using it and i believe why Sean went back to slow ball. To me hurrying up allows Josh to make adjustments, doesnt allow the Defense to make them, which allows us to dictate to them. That is what is making it effective. 

 

also for some reason Josh is more accurate when he is hurrying up. Maybe hes just performs better when he isnt overthinking and worrying about his mechanics.

 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

its important but the ravens sacked us to death using it and i believe why Sean went back to slow ball. To me hurrying up allows Josh to make adjustments, doesnt allow the Defense to make them, which allows us to dictate to them. That is what is making it effective. 

 

also for some reason Josh is more accurate when he is hurrying up. Maybe hes just performs better when he isnt overthinking and worrying about his mechanics.

 

 

We no huddle. We don't hurry up. There is a difference. But the bigger difference is when we put DiMarco and or Lee Smith in. That makes the defense put an extra defender or even two into the box. That hurts us way more than helps for numerous reasons. 

[BringBackOrton]

2 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

The object of the game is to win it all. It's not to win the most games. Sure, you need to win games first and make the playoffs first. McDermott has clearly been able to do that and it should not be underestimated. But the object is to win it all. You have to be aggressive to win it all. I don't think that is even a question. 

It really is a question and you’re wrong.

 

The Broncos won in 2015 by going into a shell punting how many straight times with a lead in the AFCCG? You might say “oh Kubiak was always aggressive the rest of the time in his career,” but guess what? Those Peyton Manning aggressive offenses never won in Denver. The crappy conservative offense did. Because you have to play to your PERSONNEL.

[Kelly the Dog]

2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

It really is a question and you’re wrong.

 

The Broncos won in 2015 by going into a shell punting how many straight times with a lead in the AFCCG? You might say “oh Kubiak was always aggressive the rest of the time in his career,” but guess what? Those Peyton Manning aggressive offenses never won in Denver. The crappy conservative offense did. Because you have to play to your PERSONNEL.

I'm talking both sides of the ball though. He's conservative on defense too. A very good coach but bend but not break and he doesn't Blitz a lot. When we have we have been much better. The combination of a conservative offense with a bend but not break defense has VERY little room for error and almost all of our losses including today show that. I'm not just talking offense. It's both sides, time management, special teams, etc. 

The Broncos had a great defense. 

[Chandler#81]

7 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

He was not always conservative. They won with both great offense and defense. Bart Starr, Paul Hornug, the WR, TE, was not at all conservative. 

Not the way I remember it and I remember it well. They had 2 basic plays. The famed ‘Packer Sweep’ and fake the sweep through down the middle of the field. Boyd Dowler, Carrol Dale & Max McGee? None were speedsters and all  of them loped as the ran. The pass patterns were backyard variety. A quick trip to Canton will introduce you to numerous OL, DL, DB, RB and a conservative QB. HOFer Lombardi wouldn’t have it any other way. J. Ringo (exBill HC), F. Gregg, J. Kramer, J. Taylor, P. Hornung (flashy college QB and great shiftiness, but a grinder), D. Robinson, W. Wood, R. Nitschke, H. Adderly, W. Davis, H. Jordan were all Excellent, conservative players in an excellent, conservative scheme. They rarely blew anyone out. This was an era where Defense had all the upper hands and games were slugfests. They had no flashy, ‘Must Take This Guy out of the Game’ type players. Just well disciplined Sunday warriors.

 

It’s fairly obvious you’re searching for the premise of this weeks’ article, but you won’t find it creating an alternative reality of a glitzy Packer era. There were zero pass routes like the one Smoke burned Gilmore on or Beasley pulled on the Cowboys. 

Yes, Hornung would occasionally throw off the sweep, but so do we. 

 

Here’s what you’ve lost track of; there’s only 3 players left from the start of ‘17. Tinkering continues with the OL, TE’s, RB & Receivers while a still raw but promising QB learns the ropes. Plus, the final pieces aren’t here yet. But, they’ll be playing in their second straight meaningless game next Sunday. No potential playoff opponent is going to see anything remotely considered unconservative.

[BringBackOrton]

24 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I'm talking both sides of the ball though. He's conservative on defense too. A very good coach but bend but not break and he doesn't Blitz a lot. When we have we have been much better. The combination of a conservative offense with a bend but not break defense has VERY little room for error and almost all of our losses including today show that. I'm not just talking offense. It's both sides, time management, special teams, etc. 

The Broncos had a great defense. 

But you’re forgetting the matchup. Which is the key in all of this. Blitzing Brady historically has resulted in very bad results, good defenses and bad defenses alike. 

 

I would argue that our defensive strategy has allowed A LOT of room for error in our offense, seeing as our offense basically goes to sleep for what seems like hours because of bad throws etc. Blitzing a lot and getting burned for big plays and getting down by double digits early means this offense has very little room for error.

[Xwnyer]

7 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I'm trying to think of one. In any sport. 

 

Don't make this a hate McDermott stance or thread. I like him. I'm glad we have him. But it's arguable that his blatant conservative nature holds this team back. 

 

There are no facts. This is ALL opinion. And some of his conservative nature surely helps. We're 10-5 and will likely finish 11-5. 

 

But the object is to win it all. Josh is a unique talent. We need to score more points or there is little chance to win it all and that is the object. 

 

I think he needs to relinquish some of his dearly held nature in order to be great. I don't think you can be great without a killer instinct. 

Should he have gone for fourth n a foot late in game with the lead on his own 35?  I think he should have they were in playoffs had the ch**ts on the rope and could have with his big strong QB made a statement.  Sure you don’t want to give them short field but you had the momentum.  My main concern is can this coach realize the OC he has is not the guy to develop this guy.

[Nitro]

Lombardi, Landry, Grant,Knoll and Dungy to name a few 

[BullBuchanan]

I apply the same question to all of my relations.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

8 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I'm trying to think of one. In any sport. 

 

Don't make this a hate McDermott stance or thread. I like him. I'm glad we have him. But it's arguable that his blatant conservative nature holds this team back. 

 

There are no facts. This is ALL opinion. And some of his conservative nature surely helps. We're 10-5 and will likely finish 11-5. 

 

But the object is to win it all. Josh is a unique talent. We need to score more points or there is little chance to win it all and that is the object. 

 

I think he needs to relinquish some of his dearly held nature in order to be great. I don't think you can be great without a killer instinct. 

 

...DEAD ON bud.......not sure how we can pontificate to "play fearless" and then coach "fearful"............

[FeelingOnYouboty]

He’s legit done it in every game this season. Take the lead and then go conservative in the next drive.