Has there been a "great" coach who is clearly conservative?

[Max Fischer]

11 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Playing conservative with the lead and trusting your defense vs the best QB of all time is smart ? 

 

Are we really going to debate a specific play or decision?  I’m seeing a lot of fans suggest McD go for the 4th and 1 from the 36 in the 3rd quarter. That’s insane. 

[MDH]

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Clock management. Run on first down. Run pass ratio. Lack of blitzing. Never go for kill shot after turnover. Slow down play with lead. It's endless. 

The Bills have been blitzing plenty lately until this game. I’m scratching my head wondering why it changed today given NE’s struggles vs the blitz lately. I’ll agree on this one today and for the first half of the season but the D has really hit their stride with run and pass blitz packages lately.

 

Run/pass ratio is a direct reflection of the lack of confidence they have in the QB and passing game in general. I don’t have much confidence in them either. I’d agree with you if this offense had proven that they were capable of dropping back and letting it rip with any kind of efficiency and they still chose to run this much. As it is I don’t know if it’s conservative or just prudent given the offense. You may be right but it’s tough to tell right now.
 

Kill shot after a turnover? Now you’re just making stuff up! They throw deep plenty, why does it have to come after a turnover for them to not be labeled “conservative”?
 

Slow down play with lead is no different than their normal run first approach. Give them an offense that is effective throwing the ball and maybe they change. Again, hard to tell given what we have on O.
 

The percentage of times they go for it in 4th down and taking shots past the marker on 3rd and long are two examples of them not being conservative. 

So, I agree with you a little bit (playing for the FG last week on the 2nd to last scoring drive!) but I also see some things that aren’t conservative and the one thing McDermott has shown me is that he does have a the growth mindset he always  preaches about.

 

I think being a defensive guy kinda leans him towards conservative but I’ll withhold judgement until they have a more complete offense and they still show these same tendencies.
 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Great coaches know their team. Simple as that.

 

 

My point is we have a playmaker not a game manager at QB. We have great blitzers in Edmunds and Milano and the DBs and we got aggressive recently and were WAY better and then went back to conservative today. Normally we sit on the ball but we went for it at half today and we scored. That was an anomaly. No one anywhere is always aggressive or always conservative. My point is we have the team and players to take more chances, especially on offense. Josh is at his best in the no huddle. That's glaringly obvious. We scored on a bomb and a trick play. I do like McDermott a lot. It's not crazy to say that we could be better. 

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

28 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Neither of those were. Staubach was one of the most revolutionary QBs. Bob Hayes was the opposite. 

 

Knox was not an overly conservative coach. On either side of the ball. When he had Ferguson and Cribbs here we were not conservative. 

 

 

1 guy who believed in the run so much he was nicknamed Ground Chuck, and the lifetime practitioner of the 4-3 bend but don't break 'flex' defense don't sound conservative to me either...

[RyanC883]

40 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Most great coaches have had great rosters, and don’t need to coach as conservatively as McD to win. This roster isn’t complete yet. McD is a very good coach, especially on defense. He needs better players on O, and probably a better OC to have a shot to win it all. 

 

he clearly needs a better OC.  And he should have no role in hiring the OC.  

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

 

 

I think we're mixing playing not to lose with being conservative here.  

[Kelly the Dog]

2 minutes ago, BringMetheHeadofLeonLett said:

 

 

I think we're mixing playing not to lose with being conservative here.  

I think we are both. I'm not against being conservative. Many times it's the way to go. Overly conservative is not. 

[DRA3196]

49 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I'm trying to think of one. In any sport. 

 

Don't make this a hate McDermott stance or thread. I like him. I'm glad we have him. But it's arguable that his blatant conservative nature holds this team back. 

 

There are no facts. This is ALL opinion. And some of his conservative nature surely helps. We're 10-5 and will likely finish 11-5. 

 

But the object is to win it all. Josh is a unique talent. We need to score more points or there is little chance to win it all and that is the object. 

 

I think he needs to relinquish some of his dearly held nature in order to be great. I don't think you can be great without a killer instinct. 

Just one game. Preseason or other wise. I would love for Josh to be allowed to just throw the entire game. Sort of what Ariens did with Winston in TB this year. Just to see what JA can do when the gloves are taken off and he can just open it up and let it all hang out.

[Kelly the Dog]

5 minutes ago, BringMetheHeadofLeonLett said:

1 guy who believed in the run so much he was nicknamed Ground Chuck, and the lifetime practitioner of the 4-3 bend but don't break 'flex' defense don't sound conservative to me either...

I loved the Bills in 1980 and 1981. They were one of the best teams in the league and they were not conservative at all. They were fun. 

[Bing Bong]

Does Tony Dungy count?

 

But i'm sure everyone is evolved from the Lombardi school that wrote the rules on conservative playcalling and minimizing mistakes. If you think about it football conventions today are ultra conservative as a result.

Edited December 22, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[Tcali]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

Tony Dungy?

he wasnt a great coach

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

Does Tony Dungy count?

He had Manning as his QB for more than half of his career and was the opposite of conservative. 

[Phil The Thrill]

1 minute ago, Tcali said:

he wasnt a great coach

He wasn’t great.  He only won 1 Super Bowl

[Adamb412]

30 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Well let's look at it like a spectrum.

 

On the far conservative end is say....John Fox?  Then the really aggressive end is McVay. 

 

I think McD is in the middle of that.  

 

You haven't watched football but mcvay is as conservative as they come. The guy paints himself as an aggressive coach but watch him at crunch time. He buttons up

[dubs]

54 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

The Bills scored what McD wants....  They reached 17 & had a lead.....  This is pretty much the same story over & over......  17 Cleveland, Pitt, Baltimore & NE.....  And forget trying to score more.

yep. I’m sure McDermott is thinking that once they get to 17 that they he doesn’t want to score anymore. ? 

[Big Blitz]

1 minute ago, Adamb412 said:

 

You haven't watched football but mcvay is as conservative as they come. The guy paints himself as an aggressive coach but watch him at crunch time. He buttons up

 

 

I disagree.  Jared Goff is his QB and he let's him throw 30 plus times a game.

 

Therefore I consider him Evil Knievel

[Phil The Thrill]

Just now, dubs said:

yep. I’m sure McDermott is thinking that once they get to 17 that they he doesn’t want to score anymore. ? 

Thats what fans think.  The Bills should be able to win if the offense scores 17 pts

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, Adamb412 said:

 

You haven't watched football but mcvay is as conservative as they come. The guy paints himself as an aggressive coach but watch him at crunch time. He buttons up

You bring up a good point, which is the definition of conservative. McVay sometimes does do that but his offense is not conservative. He lets Wade run his defense which is not overly conservative. McDermott, to me, is conservative by nature and the vast majority of the time in many ways. Not always. 

[dubs]

Just now, Phil The Thrill said:

Thats what fans think.  The Bills should be able to win if the offense scores 17 pts

You have to be fully brain dead to actually believe that.

 

thats not even to say I agree with some of the play calling, but to think the bills coaching staff is thinking they are good up 4 with a quarter left to play is asinine. 

[Tcali]

7 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

He wasn’t great.  He only won 1 Super Bowl

he was very good. not every coach who wins a SB is great

25 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I loved the Bills in 1980 and 1981. They were one of the best teams in the league and they were not conservative at all. They were fun. 

Isaiah and the rest of the crazies. And probbly my fave Bill of all time..Ben Williams