If Ngakoue were available, would be be a fit for next year

[whatdrought]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

No worries. Its so hard to figure out. But its a thing I am going to say over and over until the off-season.  I think we need to be ready to not resign alot of fan favorites/not be aggressive in free agency because Beane is saving money for the future.  Think about it, they will need to extend Poyer, Milano, Dawkins, and Tre, and then after that Allen, Edmunds, and Hyde. Conversely, if the Bills DO sign Phillips,  Shaq, or a FA, what is really happening is Beane is saying they can do without one of those guys I just listed. 

 

There are going to be some that we can't resign... That's the natural order of things. But there are going to be guys we can sign, and with a new CBA around the corner, holding money for later may not be the wise play. Right now we're looking at damn near $100m dollars this off season and even more the following year. With the natural removal of larger contracts such as Murphy, Hughes, Star, and others over the next couple years, it can't hurt to add pieces. All that being equal, I would probably take Ngakoue for the Price of Phillips and Shaq if it was an either or. I love those guys and their buy in, but I don't trust guys who show up in their contract year. That being said, I'd be fine getting all three and moving on from Jerry and Murphy. 

[Rc2catch]

It’s an awfully big wish list. To sign shaq and Phillips and add possibly the top pass rusher available. That’s a ridiculous amount of money on the defensive line. One of our guys showed stars contract the other day and cutting him this offseason ain’t happening with that much dead money. I don’t know Hughes extension ramifications if he’s cut. 
To sign all these guys everyone wants even after cutting Murphy, you’re looking at a 60-70 million dollar defensive line. Nobody does that. Possibly the least smartest idea we’ve floated on here. They can find a decent to great pass rusher in the draft, or one of Beanes famous under the radar signings. 

[NewEra]

58 minutes ago, Sunshower said:

Jordan Jenkins, LB, NYJ
Bud Dupree, LB, Pittsburgh 

Logan Ryan, CB, Tennessee

Chris Harris, CB, Denver

Anthony Zettel, DE, Cincinnati (vet minimum)

Shilique Calhoun, DE, New England (vet minimum)

Kenyan Drake, RB,  Arizona

Carlos Hyde, RB, Houston

Lamar Miller, RB, Houston

Jay Ajayi, RB, Philly

Jermaine Kearse, WR, Detroit

Devin Funchess, WR, Indy

Josh Doctson, WR, Minnesota (vet minimum)

Breshad Permian, WR, Tampa Bay

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wouldn’t want one of those guys other than Harris....and we aren’t signing Harris 

[ghostwriter]

27 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

I think we have to get a pass-rushing Edge in FA if possible.  The top 3 in the draft may not fall to us (Young--OSU; Epenese--LSU; and Gross Matos--PSU) are likely all gone before we pick.  Meaning we won't have to "reach" for an Edge, or trade up.  If we grab one in FA and one of these guys is available in the draft, even better.  

 

dude, today is Thursday.  Sorry for the info.  Sucks when you think it's Friday but it's Thursday.  

Gross Matos is sick. I’d love it, he would be my first choice but he won’t be there. A guy I like a lot is Kenny Willekes from Michigan State. May or may not be there in RD2. For now I think we should be hoping for a blue chip WR there at the bottom of RD1. Jalen Reagor reminds me a lot of Lee Evans.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

6 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

There are going to be some that we can't resign... That's the natural order of things. But there are going to be guys we can sign, and with a new CBA around the corner, holding money for later may not be the wise play. Right now we're looking at damn near $100m dollars this off season and even more the following year. With the natural removal of larger contracts such as Murphy, Hughes, Star, and others over the next couple years, it can't hurt to add pieces. All that being equal, I would probably take Ngakoue for the Price of Phillips and Shaq if it was an either or. I love those guys and their buy in, but I don't trust guys who show up in their contract year. That being said, I'd be fine getting all three and moving on from Jerry and Murphy. 

 

Those are good points. The problem is that when the cap goes up, so too do player contract demands. It evens out.  But thats neither he nor there. 

 

As a matter of fact, I am in favor of re-signing Phillips and Shaw.  For me, when you have guys that buy in, work the process, and then succeed, you just have to reward them.  What is the point of all this process stuff if you don't reward your guys? That might be a bit hoakie, but it all rings a bit hollow if you don't. 

[whatdrought]

2 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Those are good points. The problem is that when the cap goes up, so too do player contract demands. It evens out.  But thats neither he nor there. 

 

As a matter of fact, I am in favor of re-signing Phillips and Shaw.  For me, when you have guys that buy in, work the process, and then succeed, you just have to reward them.  What is the point of all this process stuff if you don't reward your guys? That might be a bit hoakie, but it all rings a bit hollow if you don't. 

 

I get it and I don't disagree. We just lack a true edge rusher who can consistently get after the QB and make plays when we need it most. Our front 7 is doing a ton to generate pressure, but that's primarily with blitzes and with tricks. Right now that works cause our pass defense is so damn good. I'd still like a 10+ sack edge rusher whose going to be the focus of the other teams OL. If that's FA, so be it. If it's the draft, that's fine as well. 

[Buffalo Junction]

46 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Asking seriously? Is it that different to play RDE vs LDE? Neber understood that. Same with LG vs RG. I get the footwork is mirrored and maybe your less favorite arm/side is leading when you pull, but id think these guys are good enough to do both ways. What am i overlooking here?

Yes. The responsibilities are slightly different as are the abilities of RTs and LTs. Generally speaking LDEs are larger and stronger than RDEs, better against the run, and possibly better at dropping into zone coverage. That’s sort of prototyping though. Realistically, they have to be able to keep contain when doubled by a RT and TE, plus beat a RT 1 on 1 in the pass rush. A lot of guys switch back and forth though. Plus, there’s a whole range of talents and schemes which dictate what type of LDE and RDE a team is looking for. 

[JESSEFEFFER]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

I like Ngakoue, but I worry about giving the money he will likely command to someone who's listed at 246lbs. He's likely only going to be a situational pass rusher for us. I don't know if a guy that light holds up against the run. Does anyone know how he stacks up in run defense already? I only see him getting after the QB, which he is quite impressive at. 

 

I would need to watch a day's worth of highlight videos to get the image of Josh stiff arming his face into the New Era turf on the QB draw last year.

[section122]

13 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Those are good points. The problem is that when the cap goes up, so too do player contract demands. It evens out.  But thats neither he nor there. 

 

As a matter of fact, I am in favor of re-signing Phillips and Shaw.  For me, when you have guys that buy in, work the process, and then succeed, you just have to reward them.  What is the point of all this process stuff if you don't reward your guys? That might be a bit hoakie, but it all rings a bit hollow if you don't. 

 

Thank you!  The process will grow stale real quick if they don't reward the guys that earn it.  Shaq and Jordan are on that list.

 

Yannick Ngakoue has exactly 1.5 more sacks than Shaq this year (8 to 6.5) while playing 695 snaps to Shaq's 464 snaps.  That means that on average Yannick gets a sack every 87 snaps and Shaq gets one every 71 snaps.  We have a guy on our team that has bought in, produced, and will be cheaper while being a known commodity.  No reason to spend more money on Ngakoue for less production.

 

[TheElectricCompany]

13 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

Thank you!  The process will grow stale real quick if they don't reward the guys that earn it.  Shaq and Jordan are on that list.

 

Yannick Ngakoue has exactly 1.5 more sacks than Shaq this year (8 to 6.5) while playing 695 snaps to Shaq's 464 snaps.  That means that on average Yannick gets a sack every 87 snaps and Shaq gets one every 71 snaps.  We have a guy on our team that has bought in, produced, and will be cheaper while being a known commodity.  No reason to spend more money on Ngakoue for less production.

 

 

We can pay Shaq, Jordan and Yannick. 

We have a quality QB making pennies. This is the time that you spend / trade like crazy and stack the team! 

 

[snamsnoops]

2 hours ago, FLBillsGuy said:

Just wondering

Maybe!?

[Marv's Neighbor]

1 hour ago, RyanC883 said:

I think we have to get a pass-rushing Edge in FA if possible.  The top 3 in the draft may not fall to us (Young--OSU; Epenese--LSU; and Gross Matos--PSU) are likely all gone before we pick.  Meaning we won't have to "reach" for an Edge, or trade up.  If we grab one in FA and one of these guys is available in the draft, even better.  

 

dude, today is Thursday.  Sorry for the info.  Sucks when you think it's Friday but it's Thursday.  

Dude, being retired from 2 careers I don't much give a rat's as* what day today/tomorrow etc. may be.  Likely Sucks more to still be still have to worry about such trivialities.

[H2o]

19 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

Thank you!  The process will grow stale real quick if they don't reward the guys that earn it.  Shaq and Jordan are on that list.

 

Yannick Ngakoue has exactly 1.5 more sacks than Shaq this year (8 to 6.5) while playing 695 snaps to Shaq's 464 snaps.  That means that on average Yannick gets a sack every 87 snaps and Shaq gets one every 71 snaps.  We have a guy on our team that has bought in, produced, and will be cheaper while being a known commodity.  No reason to spend more money on Ngakoue for less production.

 

Nice stat my friend. Thanks. 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I’ve haven’t seen much of Nagoue but similar DE’s at that size that I have seen play are K Mack and Von Miller. They are both elite pass rushers and can play the run.

30 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

Thank you!  The process will grow stale real quick if they don't reward the guys that earn it.  Shaq and Jordan are on that list.

 

Yannick Ngakoue has exactly 1.5 more sacks than Shaq this year (8 to 6.5) while playing 695 snaps to Shaq's 464 snaps.  That means that on average Yannick gets a sack every 87 snaps and Shaq gets one every 71 snaps.  We have a guy on our team that has bought in, produced, and will be cheaper while being a known commodity.  No reason to spend more money on Ngakoue for less production.

 

I agree, I would prefer to keep Shaq. He’s not a elite edge rusher but he is strong against the run and knows his role in this defense. 

[TPS]

2 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Asking seriously? Is it that different to play RDE vs LDE? Neber understood that. Same with LG vs RG. I get the footwork is mirrored and maybe your less favorite arm/side is leading when you pull, but id think these guys are good enough to do both ways. What am i overlooking here?

You typically have edge rushers like Hughes and Yannick at RDE which is the weak side (no TE) and typically the QB's blindside.  The LDE's tend be bigger and better run defenders because that's the side the TE is usually on.  Shaq is built like an LDE, but can play both sides.  The definitely need to invest in someone who can replace Hughes, whether that's from the draft or FA.  Personally, my choice would be to sign Shaq and let Murphy go, with Shaq the starting LDE. He also gives you the ability to back up Hughes.  This is probably the most difficult off-season decision for them and will be interesting to see what they do.

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Thanks for the input.

 

My only counterpoint would be that next year is likely Hughes' last year with the Bills. So signing Ngakoue long-term would have his replacement lined up before his departure. Let them figure it out for a single season, then move on.

You're probably right about it being Hughes last year.  It will be interesting to see what they decide here....

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, Marv's Neighbor said:

Dude, being retired from 2 careers I don't much give a rat's as* what day today/tomorrow etc. may be.  Likely Sucks more to still be still have to worry about such trivialities.

 

hey, didn’t mean it as a jab.  was intend to be funny, clearly failed. !!   

[atlbillsfan1975]

1 hour ago, Marv's Neighbor said:

Dude, being retired from 2 careers I don't much give a rat's as* what day today/tomorrow etc. may be.  Likely Sucks more to still be still have to worry about such trivialities.

You are retired and start a sentence ‘Dude’? That’s great! Good for you!

[ColoradoBills]

2 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

It’s an awfully big wish list. To sign shaq and Phillips and add possibly the top pass rusher available. That’s a ridiculous amount of money on the defensive line. One of our guys showed stars contract the other day and cutting him this offseason ain’t happening with that much dead money. I don’t know Hughes extension ramifications if he’s cut. 
To sign all these guys everyone wants even after cutting Murphy, you’re looking at a 60-70 million dollar defensive line. Nobody does that. Possibly the least smartest idea we’ve floated on here. They can find a decent to great pass rusher in the draft, or one of Beanes famous under the radar signings. 

 

I tend to agree with you.  The positional spending is way to heavy for the DL.

Hughes costs more to cut than to keep so that is a done deal.

The only way I see Beane doing this (way overspending on the DL) is if they plan on dropping Hughes after next year and also getting

rid of Star after next year to get the $s back to a reasonable amount.  I guess a trade is also an option.

 

But maybe they do just that and skip adding any high draft picks to the DL for another year or two and use the picks on offense.

One thing for certain, March 2020 is going to be an interesting month on this board!

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

If he's a true outside DE then yes. He'd be a good upgrade to Shaq who will most likely walk in FA. If I had to overpay for one of them I'd probably go with Ngakoue.

 

If it were up to me, MY defensive line would be:

 

DE: Hughes - Draft Pick

1Tech: Harry - Vince Taylor

3Tech: JPhillips - Oliver

DE: Ngakoue

 

Still need a couple more players to pad the depth, but that would be my plan for starters, assuming we can't bring Shaq back on a reasonable deal.

 

Edit:

Cutting Star saves us $2M

Cutting Murphy saves us $7M

I'm ok with cutting both and throwing that money at Lawson to keep him in the rotation...

 

DE: Hughes - Draft Pick

1Tech: Harry - Vince Taylor

3Tech: JPhillips - Oliver

DE: Ngakoue - Lawson

 

 

I'd go with the edited version. Say goodbye to Murphy and Star. Take that extra money put toward Jordan & Shaq. Next year will definitely be Jerry's last.

[billsbackto81]

3 hours ago, whatdrought said:

Yeah. I'd take him pretty quick. I'm fine keeping Shaq, J. Phillips, and signing Ngakoue. Stack Strength on strength and spend the money that we have.

Definitely sign Phillips, and if all things were equal whether we acquire Ngakoue or sign and retain Lawson, I'm picking Ngakoue. Sorry Shaq. I don't think they'll sign both Shaq and Ngakoue.

Edited December 19, 2019 by billsbackto81