Nextmanup Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: I havnt been able to shake that OT sweep. this is the first time I've seen it from that angle and its making physically ill. knox is literally looking directly at the LB before he even approaches him. i'm still at a loss over that. How about Mitch Morse? It seems like one of them should have totally wiped out the eventual tackler but both sort of ignored him. There used to be a time when we had a great OL and everyone on the line executed perfectly on plays like this, to the point where certain teams on certain days just couldn't stop what we wanted to do. Our line is nowhere near that now. But it will undoubtedly be improved this offseason. 1
Stank_Nasty Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Nextmanup said: How about Mitch Morse? It seems like one of them should have totally wiped out the eventual tackler but both sort of ignored him. There used to be a time when we had a great OL and everyone on the line executed perfectly on plays like this, to the point where certain teams on certain days just couldn't stop what we wanted to do. Our line is nowhere near that now. But it will undoubtedly be improved this offseason. morse also should have at least altered his path after knox completely ignored him.
TheBrownBear Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 OMG...I still don't understand WTH Knox was doing on that sweep. As others have said, he makes that easy block and Allen scampers for 20 yards, maybe even a touchdown. Extremely frustrating. 1
Patrick Duffy Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: I havnt been able to shake that OT sweep. this is the first time I've seen it from that angle and its making physically ill. knox is literally looking directly at the LB before he even approaches him. i'm still at a loss over that. Yes, very disappointed in Knox totally blowing that block. Was clear as day. And Allen took a big helmet to helmet hit on that play (think it was that play). Don't know how one would miss a block that is basically directly in front of you, but anyway.... Edited January 8, 2020 by Patrick_Duffy 1
billsfan1959 Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: I havnt been able to shake that OT sweep. this is the first time I've seen it from that angle and its making physically ill. knox is literally looking directly at the LB before he even approaches him. i'm still at a loss over that. I know. This is probably the play that bothers me the most (and there were a number) in that game. If Knox gets a shoulder on Cunningham, the next obstacle for Allen is the DB Ford is destroying at the 29 yard line. The only other defender is a DB coming across the field. I have no doubt Allen is inside the 25 Yard line on that play - if not scoring. At the very least, they are in winning FG range Edited January 8, 2020 by billsfan1959
Stank_Nasty Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said: I know. This is probably the play that bothers me the most (and there were a number) in that game. If Knox gets a shoulder on Cunningham, the next obstacle for Allen is the DB Ford is destroying AT THE 29 yard line. The only other defender is a DB coming across the field. I have no doubt Allen is inside the 25 Yard line on that plate Dash if not scoring. its inexplicable that he would literally be looking right at him, know his qb is coming behind him, and not even graze him.... Im just at a loss. he makes that pop warner block and everything about this week changes. just unreal. 1
oldmanfan Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 Lot of little mistakes, plus Watson doing his thing, is what lost the game. Not just our QB as some are wont to claim. I used to play competitive golf, amateur tournaments and such. Allen right now reminds me of what I saw in myself and others (and of course you see it on the pro tour as well), when you're in the hunt on the last day of the tournament. Until you've been there a few times, you don't know how to get things to slow down so you're thinking clearly and can just let yourself do what you've done countless times in practice. You press a little more than you should. You have to be in the experience, and oftentimes fail in the experience, before you can go on to win. Allen had his first playoff experience, and despite the several nutty plays he made It's a credit to him that he was able to lead them to the tie in regulation and have them right there in the playoffs. The more he experiences this, the more comfortable the situation will become and the better he'll play. That is, unless he becomes a total choking dog like some guys I played golf against in the day. But Allen doesn't strike me as a choking dog. , 4
GaryPinC Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 Just a friendly reminder from one of my favorite articles: https://buffalonews.com/2019/09/04/buffalo-bills-bill-polian-jim-kelly-peyton-manning-jim-kelly-josh-allen-nfl-football-2019/ “Year 1, in pro ball, you learn to get in and out of the huddle," Polian said. "You learn the nomenclature. You learn how to call the play. You learn what the calls are that the offensive line is making. Josh had great benefit of being injured and sitting and having the ability, during that time, to take a deep breath and say, ‘OK, I have to do this, this, this and this in order to master this.’ “Second year, you learned the concepts of the offense in the offseason. Not how to do it, but why you’re doing it. And why you are doing this, that or the other thing to beat a certain defense or a certain player or doing it in a certain game situation." In the third year, Polian said, there should be significant progress. “You should see the arrow really going up, because if you’re learning how to apply it, you’re eliminating the rookie or young person mistakes," he said. "Because if you’re learning and how to apply what you’ve already learned, you’ve learned not to put the ball in places where it doesn’t belong, go to the wrong guy, etc. “Then, in the fourth year, you learn how to manipulate a defense. How your eyes will make certain players react, how ball placement will make certain players react, how certain audibles or dummy audibles will cause people to react. And then after that, you’re a complete quarterback. Can't wait till next year! I think as this all progresses, he'll learn to trust his teammates more and eliminate the selfish hero ball mentality. I do hope Daboll stays one more year. 2 1
Success Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 The national media & internet seem mostly focused on the lateral. To hear the context of most of the comments at this point, you would think that play cost the Bills the game. We didn't even lose the ball; it was a 1st down. Bad judgment, sure, and definitely a play that I can see people talking about. But there wasn't one mistake at the end (the grounding, the sack, or the lateral) that cost the Bills the game. Reason #582 why I can't stand officials that take the game away from the players. Without that purely phantom call on Ford, I think there is a great chance Hausch makes it - and then, the narrative is that Allen is like the great ones because he has a short memory & great ability to overcome his mistakes & come out w/ the win. 1
Lurker Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: To be fair to Allen, in other games part of the reason he struggles to handle pass rush pressure is that 1) sometimes his line does a total breakdown and gives him no protection at all 2) sometimes the plays that are called have no checkdown or hot routes 3) our best two WR struggle mightily against man. Some of those same things could be said of Watson in that game. He rose to the occasion and Josh did not. Hopefully, the light will go on in year three as it appears to have for Deshaun (although Watson has had a great deal more big game experience from collage to draw upon than Josh).... 1
Meatloaf63 Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, Lurker said: Some of those same things could be said of Watson in that game. He rose to the occasion and Josh did not. Hopefully, the light will go on in year three as it appears to have for Deshaun (although Watson has had a great deal more big game experience from collage to draw upon than Josh).... a lot easier to go against 11 & not 12. But your point about all the big game experience is spot on, hopefully this all helps in Allen’s growth.... 1
Success Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 22 minutes ago, Lurker said: Some of those same things could be said of Watson in that game. He rose to the occasion and Josh did not. Hopefully, the light will go on in year three as it appears to have for Deshaun (although Watson has had a great deal more big game experience from collage to draw upon than Josh).... I've gotta take a little exception to the idea that Josh didn't rise to the challenge. He drove the offense down for the game-tying FG, and then for the game winner, which the refs took away w/ a genuinely bad call. If the D can stop 3rd & 18, or sack a QB with 2 guys coming in at full speed, I'd bet a fair amount that Allen would have driven them again & won that game. It's what he did all season. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 48 minutes ago, Lurker said: Some of those same things could be said of Watson in that game. He rose to the occasion and Josh did not. Hopefully, the light will go on in year three as it appears to have for Deshaun (although Watson has had a great deal more big game experience from collage to draw upon than Josh).... You can not say about Watson that his best WR struggles against Man. 1
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Nextmanup said: How about Mitch Morse? It seems like one of them should have totally wiped out the eventual tackler but both sort of ignored him. There used to be a time when we had a great OL and everyone on the line executed perfectly on plays like this, to the point where certain teams on certain days just couldn't stop what we wanted to do. Our line is nowhere near that now. But it will undoubtedly be improved this offseason. If you want to see this play executed perfectly, see the first series of the game where Allen ran 42 yards. 1
Stank_Nasty Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 8 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: If you want to see this play executed perfectly, see the first series of the game where Allen ran 42 yards. which is exactly why its so mind boggling it went so sideways on the one in OT. 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Anyone who has played competitive sports, and been a competitor knowS that when you keep seeing your team make mistakes around you, whiffed blocks, bad routes, bad hands, lack of body control.. you start to do to much because you feel pressed to make something miraculous happen. one reason Farve was a turnover machine on some of his Less talented teams, as one example. There are tons more examples. as the talent around the qb improves, this will go away. With all due respect, this is what critics of Allen get bothered by. He gets so many passes (no pun intended). We scored a touchdown on our opening drive and didn’t get another one all day. Our defense shut down a really good qb for 3/4 of the game and just got worn out. We struggle to win games if Our defense gives up 17+ points. again, I love Allen’s heart and saw some improvement. But he is still the 32nd ranked passer in completion %. That’s not good enough. I do agree the talent needs to get better but folks need to act like Allen was carrying this team. He wasn’t. A lot of starting qbs would have done well on this team. good news is he has all the talent in the world. But he is a great situation with the defense he has. 1 hour ago, Success said: I've gotta take a little exception to the idea that Josh didn't rise to the challenge. He drove the offense down for the game-tying FG, and then for the game winner, which the refs took away w/ a genuinely bad call. If the D can stop 3rd & 18, or sack a QB with 2 guys coming in at full speed, I'd bet a fair amount that Allen would have driven them again & won that game. It's what he did all season. We scored 6 points in the second half. Stop trying to make it look like it was the defense’s fault. the defense was the reason why Allen and the offense, after going in terrible droughts for periods of times all season, had the chance to win games late. The defense was the MVP of this team and it wasn’t close. 2
Success Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 28 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: We scored 6 points in the second half. Stop trying to make it look like it was the defense’s fault. the defense was the reason why Allen and the offense, after going in terrible droughts for periods of times all season, had the chance to win games late. The defense was the MVP of this team and it wasn’t close. I don't disagree - it probably sounded that way by my comment, but I wasn't trying to put in on the defense. I was just saying that I wouldn't have characterized what happened in that game as Allen not rising to the challenge. For a young guy, I actually loved how he got past the "meltdown" couple of minutes, and still found ways to get us in scoring position. There wasn't a huge amount of scoring all weekend. I think only 1 team got past 20. Allen really had us in position to get 22 (that call on Ford will haunt me for awhile). I agree that he needs to do more, but think he will. We'll probably look back on this game as a valuable one in his learning curve - I have a hunch that it will really fuel him this offseason. 1
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: With all due respect, this is what critics of Allen get bothered by. He gets so many passes (no pun intended). We scored a touchdown on our opening drive and didn’t get another one all day. Our defense shut down a really good qb for 3/4 of the game and just got worn out. We struggle to win games if Our defense gives up 17+ points. again, I love Allen’s heart and saw some improvement. But he is still the 32nd ranked passer in completion %. That’s not good enough. I do agree the talent needs to get better but folks need to act like Allen was carrying this team. He wasn’t. A lot of starting qbs would have done well on this team. good news is he has all the talent in the world. But he is a great situation with the defense he has. We scored 6 points in the second half. Stop trying to make it look like it was the defense’s fault. the defense was the reason why Allen and the offense, after going in terrible droughts for periods of times all season, had the chance to win games late. The defense was the MVP of this team and it wasn’t close. I'm curious as to why you think of defense was wore out 3/4 through the game when the offense went on 3 long drives in the 4 times they touched the ball in the first half and after scoring their FG in the 3rd was up in TOP? On top of that, most sat all or the majority of the game the week before. In the playoff game the defense did lose the game. Spotted a 16-0 lead with only 5 or 6 minutes left in the 3rd and they give up 22 points from the 1:33 mark of the 3rd on? They only gave up 22 or more in 3 games this year. It's common for most teams to lean on an offense or a defense, with our team we leaned on the defense and by his actions throughout the year, it's exactly the way McDermott wanted it. Edited January 8, 2020 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: With all due respect, this is what critics of Allen get bothered by. He gets so many passes (no pun intended). We scored a touchdown on our opening drive and didn’t get another one all day. Our defense shut down a really good qb for 3/4 of the game and just got worn out. We struggle to win games if Our defense gives up 17+ points. again, I love Allen’s heart and saw some improvement. But he is still the 32nd ranked passer in completion %. That’s not good enough. I do agree the talent needs to get better but folks need to act like Allen was carrying this team. He wasn’t. A lot of starting qbs would have done well on this team. good news is he has all the talent in the world. But he is a great situation with the defense he has. We scored 6 points in the second half. Stop trying to make it look like it was the defense’s fault. the defense was the reason why Allen and the offense, after going in terrible droughts for periods of times all season, had the chance to win games late. The defense was the MVP of this team and it wasn’t close. I hope no one thinks Allen doesn’t need to drastically improve. You know it, I know it, he knows it, the coaches know it. Most every bills fan knows it. that’s not really the point. The point is underneath the moments of unbridled unvarnished boneheaded mistakes, are flashes of Extremely elite arm talent, impeccable pocket poise, nearly elite mobility, incredible passion, sophisticated reads of the defense. and despite all the poor sacks, dumb fumbles, near ints, Many of those plays were incited by poor play of the entire squad. critical plays that could have been made by others that would have altered the outcomes were missed. defense carried the team. Singletary and then Second Allen imo carried the offense. There were no other playmakers i can see getting that praise Edited January 8, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I hope no one thinks Allen doesn’t need to drastically improve. You know it, I know it, he knows it, the coaches know it. Most every bills fan knows it. that’s not really the point. The point is underneath the moments of unbridled unvarnished boneheaded mistakes, are flashes of Extremely elite arm talent, impeccable pocket poise, nearly elite mobility, incredible passion, sophisticated reads of the defense. and despite all the poor sacks, dumb fumbles, near ints, Many of those plays were incited by poor play of the entire squad. critical plays that could have been made by others that would have altered the outcomes were missed. defense carried the team. Singletary and then Second Allen imo carried the offense. There were no other playmakers i can see getting that praise I agree. I just worry Allen is always going to be a roller coaster. Definitely not boring but as early as it is in his career, the SB window is already narrowing. 22 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: I'm curious as to why you think of defense was wore out 3/4 through the game when the offense went on 3 long drives in the 4 times they touched the ball in the first half and after scoring their FG in the 3rd was up in TOP? On top of that, most sat all or the majority of the game the week before. In the playoff game the defense did lose the game. Spotted a 16-0 lead with only 5 or 6 minutes left in the 3rd and they give up 22 points from the 1:33 mark of the 3rd on? They only gave up 22 or more in 3 games this year. It's common for most teams to lean on an offense or a defense, with our team we leaned on the defense and by his actions throughout the year, it's exactly the way McDermott wanted it. Defense has carried this team all year. I don’t disagree that part of the issue is McDermott’s philosophy but there were plenty of times the offense could have ended this game.
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