Allen slammed on ESPN

[IDBillzFan]

2 minutes ago, teef said:

weis and papa were singing their praises this morning as well.

 

Not sure why, but I find them tough to listen to. It's like listening to two old guys having breakfast at Dennys, talking in between bites of food. But Weis is a smart dude.

[teef]

Just now, IDBillzFan said:

 

Not sure why, but I find them tough to listen to. It's like listening to two old guys having breakfast at Dennys, talking in between bites of food. But Weis is a smart dude.

i love papa, but listening to weis's voice makes me sleepy.  i miss ross tucker.

[SCBills]

3 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

gimmicks got a first series TD, couldn't punch it in the rest of the game

 

has to learn to execute an effective football drive routinely

 

 

You'd probably be the first to praise Watson or Mahomes when Hopkins or Fuller, Kelce, Watkins or Hill come down with the toe-tap at the 2 yard line that Brown misjudged and TD catch the before halftime that Duke couldn't bring in.

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by SCBills

[row_33]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

You'd probably be the first to praise Watson or Mahomes when Hopkins or Fuller, Kelce, Watkins or Hill come down with the toe-tap at the 2 yard line that Brown misjudged and TD catch the before halftime that Duke couldn't bring in.

 

 

i was quite happy with the gimmick-driven TD to start the game

 

and then they.... well.... you know our Bills....

 

 

[SCBills]

Just now, row_33 said:

 

i was quite happy with the gimmick-driven TD to start the game

 

and then they.... well.... you know our Bills....

 

 

 

Allen certainly made his fair share of mistakes, but that game was such a strong indication that we desperately need help at the skill positions. 

 

All year, these guys have been an upgrade, but average at best... meaning they do exactly what you'd expect of average NFL playmakers, which is the routine stuff... nothing less, nothing more. 

 

We praise these guys when their playmakers come through for them, but then nitpick Allen because a throw could've been thrown a millisecond earlier... which it could, but the WR could also make a play... and they rarely do. 

 

Allen had 3 huge chunk play throws - Duke sideline, Duke TD and Brown toe-tap.  Throws the WR's of Watson & Mahomes routinely reel in.  

[SCBills]

13 hours ago, Billl said:

NFL execs think he’s fantastic.  Every JA apologist on here thinks Daboll is incompetent, but he’s getting consideration for HC positions.  ESPN is devoting segments to laughing at how bad Allen is, and the league is impressed with how the coaching staff made the playoffs in spite of him (and damned near won in spite of him).  
 

Daboll and McDermott scripted a perfect drive to start the game.  They called multiple forward sweeps and screens to get Josh some easy completions and let him use his legs before scheming a perfectly executed trick play.  (Why nobody is even mentioning the fact that JA slowed up and took a shot for no reason is another story).  There were zero reads for Josh to make on that drive.  He made immediate predetermined passes, ran a QB sweep, and caught a pass...a perfect formula for a great athlete who struggles with processing what he sees.

 

Hell, people are complaining about the way the first half ended.  How did it end?  It ended with the Bills starting a drive at their own 4 yard line with five and a half minutes on the clock that killed the entirety of the clock and put three more points on the board.  That’s an incredible drive.

 

First off - I like Josh Allen.  I also like Daboll.  He gets way too much criticism for plays the players don't execute. 

 

Second... You're truly struggling.  Posters here are discussing actual NFL people who are bullish on Josh Allen and you're citing Dan LeBetard.  

 

I will acknowledge that there are NFL people on ESPN who have legitimate criticisms of Josh Allen, but they tend to be directed towards decision-making and being too reckless, which are valid.  They also acknowledge that he's one of the most physically talented QB's in the league and while he was raw, is clearly showing progress.

 

Noone will ever take you seriously if you keep referencing gimmick shows built on hot takes. 

 

Feel free to take an extra L and add it to your username.

 

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by SCBills

[Jaywrizzo]

15 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

People, like you, who didn't like Allen "being picked that high" will always view his play through that lens...

Yeah..OK....I'm a Bills fan but I'm not silly enough to have my feelings hurt by people, who watch my qb go out there and throw up all over himself....and say...he threw up all over himself. If you want to be blind to what happen...that's your fault.

14 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

gimmicks got a first series TD, couldn't punch it in the rest of the game

 

has to learn to execute an effective football drive routinely

 

Exactly....Now silly fans want to cry about people not saying.....That kid looked great out there....are you people serious?

[Jaywrizzo]

11 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

You'd probably be the first to praise Watson or Mahomes when Hopkins or Fuller, Kelce, Watkins or Hill come down with the toe-tap at the 2 yard line that Brown misjudged and TD catch the before halftime that Duke couldn't bring in.

 

Maybe we should talk about the reason why he was targeting Duke Williams so much....or why he's throwing a pass to a FB that's double covered 40 yds down the field....You make sense of that...any fool can see Allen's not Watson or Mahomes, regardless who he's throwing the ball to....This dude had the worst % on hitting a deep pass.....NO CHANCE FOR A TOE TAP WHEN THE BALL IS THROWN 10 YDS OVER THE HEAD OF AN OPEN WR...

Allen is getting slammed bcuz he played like garbage the 2nd half of the game and deserves to be getting slammed....What are they supposed to say? He played great? No...leave it to the blind fans to tell you that garbage.

[billsfan1959]

6 hours ago, Jaywrizzo said:

Yeah..OK....I'm a Bills fan but I'm not silly enough to have my feelings hurt by people, who watch my qb go out there and throw up all over himself....and say...he threw up all over himself. If you want to be blind to what happen...that's your fault.

 

My feelings are not hurt over anything. Nor am I blind to faults of Allen. My point was that people like you will always see what you want to see because you clearly have no ability to ever be open to the idea that you are wrong. And you are.

 

6 hours ago, Jaywrizzo said:

NO CHANCE FOR A TOE TAP WHEN THE BALL IS THROWN 10 YDS OVER THE HEAD OF AN OPEN WR...

 

Your response here was to someone talking about the throws to Williams in the endzone and Brown at the 2 yard line. Watch the videos below - the throws were on the money. I rest my case on what I said above and will go a bit further. Your assessment of Allen goes beyond just a refusal to acknowledge you are wrong, it shows you have absolutely no ability at all to objectively and accurately analyze football. Which, pretty much means you have absolutely no credibility on a football message board.

 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

7 hours ago, Jaywrizzo said:

Yeah..OK....I'm a Bills fan but I'm not silly enough to have my feelings hurt by people, who watch my qb go out there and throw up all over himself....and say...he threw up all over himself. If you want to be blind to what happen...that's your fault.

Exactly....Now silly fans want to cry about people not saying.....That kid looked great out there....are you people serious?

Ok, let's be objective.  I know this rarely happens around here, but let's try.

 

You say Allen "threw up all over himself".  Really?  Here are the plays people keep blasting him about; let's look with a clear eye at each:

 

1.  The lateral.  The lateral was stupid.  However, the lateral came at the end of a play where Josh used his running ability to take off for a big gain and put the team in scoring position.  And while lucky, the lateral had no effect on the outcome of the game.  Funny how folks forget the run that led to the lateral at the end of the play.

 

2.  The intentional grounding.  The rush got on him quick, and what he should have done was throw the ball away to either take a shot on fourth down or take a shot at a long FG.  That was a mistake.  What also was a mistake was that Mercilous was on him within a second or two because Smith And Singletary forgot to block anyone on the play.  But we ignore that, I suppose.

 

3.  The fumble:  Josh's fumble that led them to a FG hurt.  He was in the middle of trying to figure out whether to run or pass when he got hit by Mercilous.  We can all agree I think that he needs to work on protecting the ball when running. 

 

4.  The pass to DiMarco:  DiMarco had inside position on the defenders, and if he had timed his jump a split second later he makes the catch, or at least should make the catch.  So the he question is:  why are we ragging on allen for that play?  DiMarco makes the catch we kick the FG and win.  Is it because he threw into double coverage?  NO, because again DiMarco had position.  Is it because DiMarco was a FB and not a WR?  If so , that's on the play design and not the QB.

 

Now let's talk about some things Allen did right:

 

1.  The throws right on the money shown by billfan1959 above.  Throws right on the money that guys did not come up with.  Why is it that QBs on other teams rely on their receivers to make plays, and the receivers get criticized when they don't but in Buffalo if a receiver doesn't make a play it's Allen's fault ? 

 

2.  16-0 lead in the first half.

 

3.  1:16 left and no time outs, and the QB leads the team down the field to tie the game, including (finally) a great screen to Singletary, and a great slant to Beasley to get the in position to kick the tying FG.

 

4.  In OT, move the team down the field to get in position to kick the game winner, which happens if not for the Ford penalty and/or if one of three guys blocks Cunningham on the QB sweep.

 

So threw up on himself?  Think again.  Take yourself out of your I didn't want them to draft him ergo everything he does is bad mode.  And think.

 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by oldmanfan

[billsfan1959]

46 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

3.  The fumble:  Josh's fumble that led them to a FG hurt.  He was in the middle of trying to figure out whether to run or pass when he got hit by Mercilous.  We can all agree I think that he needs to work on protecting the ball when running. 

 

4.  In OT, move the team down the field to get in position to kick the game winner, which happens if not for the Ford penalty and/or if one of three guys blocks Cunningham on the QB sweep.

 

Good post above, oldmanfan. I wanted to show these two plays.

 

On the fumble you referred to, you are right, he absolutely was in the process of deciding to run or pass. From different angles, you can see Beasley separating from his defender and moving toward the middle of the field. In the video below, IMO, Allen was starting to raise his arm to make that throw when Mercilus got his fingertips on the ball.

 

 

What bothers me the most about the play above is that people want to be quick to blame Allen for being reckless. Other than Hapless, in another thread, I haven't heard anyone mention the fact that Allen was still behind the line of scrimmage, moving up in the pocket, and, somehow, Knox, Singletary, and Dawkins all failed to block Mercilus as he was moving toward the pocket.

 

As for the QB sweep, right again. Unbelieveable how Knox fails to get his shoulder on Cunningham or Morse after he sees Knox whiff. This play should have been the end of the game.

 

 

In addition to the pass plays I showed above, which should have been caught by anyone's standard - and would have completely changed the complexion of the game. There were three other passes I talked about in other threads that also should have been caught:

 

The throw to Williams (11 Yds) that got called back on a penalty in the 3rd Qtr

The throw to Brown on the sideline (17 Yds) in the 4th Qtr

The throw to Williams on the sideline in the 4th qtr (20 yds)

 

All of them were perfect thows from Allen. All of them could, and should, have been caught (two actually were caught by Brown but idiotic sideline awareness negated them, and one Williams was caught but called back on a penalty). That's probably two touchdowns instead of two field goals and the complexion of the game is completely changed.

 

People want to talk about how Allen "threw up all over himself" or had a complete meltown in the second half (although, during this "meltdown," he still managed to take his team to a game tying FG, and put his team in position for a game winning FG attempt in OT (had Ford not taken that penalty).

 

The truth is: Allen made some poor decisions in the second half; however, he did a lot more good then bad. If the five catches I described in this and other posts are caught as they should have been, that's 5 more completions and 90 more passing yards for Allen  to go with his 264 passing yards, 92 yards rushing, and 16 receiving yards. That's 462 yards of total offense for Allen and a completion percentage of 62%.

 

Yeah, he "threw up all over himself."

Edited January 8, 2020 by billsfan1959

[C.Biscuit97]

First half Josh was the guy I doubted he would ever be.

 

second half was the Josh I worried he will be.

 

i love his effort but if we weren’t Bills fans, we would have laughed at some of those plays.  It was straight sandlot and a total roller coaster. I want the Bills to turn him loose to see if he can carry the offense but I worry he might be Jameis Winston with turnovers if they do that. 
 

but as critical as I have been about him being picked, dude plays his butt off and genuinely cares. I’m still not sure if he is the guy but it was a fun season and he’s definitely not boring!  

[billsfan1959]

14 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

First half Josh was the guy I doubted he would ever be.

 

second half was the Josh I worried he will be.

 

i love his effort but if we weren’t Bills fans, we would have laughed at some of those plays.  It was straight sandlot and a total roller coaster. I want the Bills to turn him loose to see if he can carry the offense but I worry he might be Jameis Winston with turnovers if they do that. 
 

but as critical as I have been about him being picked, dude plays his butt off and genuinely cares. I’m still not sure if he is the guy but it was a fun season and he’s definitely not boring!  

I believe, by this time next year, most of the questions regarding Allen will be answered - one way or the other.

[C.Biscuit97]

6 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

I believe, by this time next year, most of the questions regarding Allen will be answered - one way or the other.

And that’s all we can hope for! I feel he will always be the guy capable of making some of the best plays of any player in the nfl and then making some of the worst ones. 
 

but it was a fun season and he certainly was a part of it. I am genuinely sad it is over. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

23 hours ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

Kirwan and Miller, who never shy away from applying criticism, have repeatedly said the BIlls are in the best AFC East position for the long term based on Beane and McDermott building everything correctly, from the ground up. They know Allen is raw, but they like the way they staff is developing him and the people around him. Kirwan repeatedly says it takes a new HC two years, at least, to learn how to be a HC.

 

The only fans who can't see this are the fans who predicted Beane and "McClappy" and Allen would fail, and it has nothing to do with the state of the Bills and everything to do with the high-schoolish desire to insist they were right.

 

Dumbest four words you'll ever hear from a football fan: I told you so.

The Second dumbest intended to set up dumbest:

 

“Im calling it now”

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, Jaywrizzo said:

Maybe we should talk about the reason why he was targeting Duke Williams so much....or why he's throwing a pass to a FB that's double covered 40 yds down the field....You make sense of that...any fool can see Allen's not Watson or Mahomes, regardless who he's throwing the ball to....This dude had the worst % on hitting a deep pass.....NO CHANCE FOR A TOE TAP WHEN THE BALL IS THROWN 10 YDS OVER THE HEAD OF AN OPEN WR...

Allen is getting slammed bcuz he played like garbage the 2nd half of the game and deserves to be getting slammed....What are they supposed to say? He played great? No...leave it to the blind fans to tell you that garbage.

 

What are you talking about?

[Lurker]

32 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

First half Josh was the guy I doubted he would ever be.

 

second half was the Josh I worried he will be.

 

First half, the Texans play zone and rush four.   Allen sits in the pocket and stays calm and collected.

 

Second half, the Texans play man and blitz more.    Allen gets confused and eventually resorts to hero ball.

 

The thing that will make or break Josh's career is how he learns to handle pass rush pressure.  The NFL knows that's his weakness and he'll have to overcome it--or flame out accordingly...

 

 

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What are you talking about?

 

He has no idea...

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Lurker

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

8 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Good post above, oldmanfan. I wanted to show these two plays.

 

On the fumble you referred to, you are right, he absolutely was in the process of deciding to run or pass. From different angles, you can see Beasley separating from his defender and moving toward the middle of the field. In the video below, IMO, Allen was starting to raise his arm to make that throw when Mercilus got his fingertips on the ball.

 

 

What bothers me the most about the play above is that people want to be quick to blame Allen for being reckless. Other than Hapless, in another thread, I haven't heard anyone mention the fact that Allen was still behind the line of scrimmage, moving up in the pocket, and, somehow, Knox, Singletary, and Dawkins all failed to block Mercilus as he was moving toward the pocket.

 

As for the QB sweep, right again. Unbelieveable how Knox fails to get his shoulder on Cunningham or Morse after he sees Knox whiff. This play should have been the end of the game.

 

 

In addition to the pass plays I showed above, which should have been caught by anyone's standard - and would have completely changed the complexion of the game. There were three other passes I talked about in other threads that also should have been caught:

 

The throw to Williams (11 Yds) that got called back on a penalty in the 3rd Qtr

The throw to Brown on the sideline (17 Yds) in the 4th Qtr

The throw to Williams on the sideline in the 4th qtr (20 yds)

 

All of them were perfect thows from Allen. All of them could, and should, have been caught (two actually were caught by Brown but idiotic sideline awareness negated them, and one Williams was caught but called back on a penalty). That's probably two touchdowns instead of two field goals and the complexion of the game is completely changed.

 

People want to talk about how Allen "threw up all over himself" or had a complete meltown in the second half (although, during this "meltdown," he still managed to take his team to a game tying FG, and put his team in position for a game winning FG attempt in OT (had Ford not taken that penalty).

 

The truth is: Allen made some poor decisions in the second half; however, he did a lot more good then bad. If the five catches I described in this and other posts are caught as they should have been, that's 5 more completions and 90 more passing yards for Allen  to go with his 264 passing yards, 92 yards rushing, and 16 receiving yards. That's 462 yards of total offense for Allen and a completion percentage of 62%.

 

Yeah, he "threw up all over himself."

Anyone who has played competitive sports, and been a competitor knowS that when you keep seeing your team make mistakes around you, whiffed blocks, bad routes, bad hands, lack of body control.. you start to do to much because you feel pressed to make something miraculous happen. 
 

one reason Farve was a turnover machine on some of his Less talented teams, as one example. There are tons more examples. 

 

as the talent around the qb improves, and as the kid matures, this will go away. 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Lurker said:

 

First half, the Texans play zone and rush four.   Allen sits in the pocket and stays calm and collected.

Second half, the Texans play man and blitz more.    Allen gets confused and eventually resorts to hero ball.

 

The thing that will make or break Josh's career is how he learns to handle pass rush pressure.  The NFL knows that's his weakness and he'll have to overcome it--or flame out accordingly...

 

To be fair to Allen, in other games part of the reason he struggles to handle pass rush pressure is that 1) sometimes his line does a total breakdown and gives him no protection at all 2) sometimes the plays that are called have no checkdown or hot routes 3) our best two WR struggle mightily against man.  The Ravens wrote a book on how to ***** up their route running without getting flagged for DPI and the Texans read it.  Caveat: I have not yet had the stomach to re-watch the Texans game in its entirety, so it is possible something different is going on but I doubt it, given what I've seen in the few plays I have gone back and looked at (like Allen's fumble - it's not just Singletary who whiffed on Mercilus, it's Kroft, Singletary, AND Dawkins.  C'Mon, Man!)

 

And yes, sometimes Allen gets confused too, it's gonna happen with a young QB.  If you want a good nuanced take, look at Brett Kollsman's "Unfair Criticism" piece on Youtube.  This guy is not a Bills homer or even particularly a Bills fan, and his other pieces on other QB and football teams are excellent.

[Stank_Nasty]

3 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Good post above, oldmanfan. I wanted to show these two plays.

 

On the fumble you referred to, you are right, he absolutely was in the process of deciding to run or pass. From different angles, you can see Beasley separating from his defender and moving toward the middle of the field. In the video below, IMO, Allen was starting to raise his arm to make that throw when Mercilus got his fingertips on the ball.

 

 

What bothers me the most about the play above is that people want to be quick to blame Allen for being reckless. Other than Hapless, in another thread, I haven't heard anyone mention the fact that Allen was still behind the line of scrimmage, moving up in the pocket, and, somehow, Knox, Singletary, and Dawkins all failed to block Mercilus as he was moving toward the pocket.

 

As for the QB sweep, right again. Unbelieveable how Knox fails to get his shoulder on Cunningham or Morse after he sees Knox whiff. This play should have been the end of the game.

 

 

In addition to the pass plays I showed above, which should have been caught by anyone's standard - and would have completely changed the complexion of the game. There were three other passes I talked about in other threads that also should have been caught:

 

The throw to Williams (11 Yds) that got called back on a penalty in the 3rd Qtr

The throw to Brown on the sideline (17 Yds) in the 4th Qtr

The throw to Williams on the sideline in the 4th qtr (20 yds)

 

All of them were perfect thows from Allen. All of them could, and should, have been caught (two actually were caught by Brown but idiotic sideline awareness negated them, and one Williams was caught but called back on a penalty). That's probably two touchdowns instead of two field goals and the complexion of the game is completely changed.

 

People want to talk about how Allen "threw up all over himself" or had a complete meltown in the second half (although, during this "meltdown," he still managed to take his team to a game tying FG, and put his team in position for a game winning FG attempt in OT (had Ford not taken that penalty).

 

The truth is: Allen made some poor decisions in the second half; however, he did a lot more good then bad. If the five catches I described in this and other posts are caught as they should have been, that's 5 more completions and 90 more passing yards for Allen  to go with his 264 passing yards, 92 yards rushing, and 16 receiving yards. That's 462 yards of total offense for Allen and a completion percentage of 62%.

 

Yeah, he "threw up all over himself."

I havnt been able to shake that OT sweep. this is the first time I've seen it from that angle and its making physically ill. knox is literally looking directly at the LB before he even approaches him. i'm still at a loss over that.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Stank_Nasty