Allen slammed on ESPN

[RaoulDuke79]

7 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

ESPN is right about one thing Josh Allen is the most inaccurate starting QB in the NFL. Outside of that stats we get a range of opinions.  I think Allen simply doesn’t read the defense early enough & doesn’t get to his hot read early enough. Instead he stays in the pocket or scrambles trying to find deeper patterns developing. There is no shame in getting the ball out early on 1st or 2nd down passes.

The only shame is it appears we have no passing plays in the playbook for first or second down.

[BringBackOrton]

16 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Ok man. Whatever you say. The defense is the only reason that the team has won any games.

There you go again putting words in my mouth. 

 

I never said that the defense is the only reason. I said that they are a primary reason. The defense is clearly better compared to the rest of the NFL than the offense is. The better unit is the one that contributes more to wins. That’s all. Does that mean that if you replace the 2019 Bills offense with the Dolphins offense, we’re still 10-5? Of course not.

 

The defense keeps it close for the majority of the game. They play at a high level for longer and more consistently than the offense does. The offense has some bad moments, but ultimately makes big plays when they have to. I would say 90% of the time, the defense looks great, and maybe 50% of the time, the offense looks great. And in that 50%, it’s a majority of Josh’s play that makes them look great. That’s been our winning formula and I’m happy with it. Especially because the offense wasn’t close to 50% last year and the defense probably wasn’t close to 90% either.

 

It was your inane and arbitrary examples and strange off the wall comparisons that I debated because they were silly on their face.  Pointing exclusively to offensive TD’s by one player as an indication of how the offense performs as a whole? Which completely excluded yardage, field position, field goals and TD’s from other players? Stating that the Bills wouldn’t have won any games this year if their offense scored zero points the whole year and that somehow proves something?

 

I said it best earlier. There was a Josh Allen gas leak in here that had you spouting gibberish.

Edited December 24, 2019 by BringBackOrton

[thebandit27]

14 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

There you go again putting words in my mouth. 

 

I never said that the defense is the only reason. I said that they are a primary reason. The defense is clearly better compared to the rest of the NFL than the offense is. The better unit is the one that contributes more to wins. That’s all. Does that mean that if you replace the 2019 Bills offense with the Dolphins offense, we’re still 10-5? Of course not.

 

The defense keeps it close for the majority of the game. They play at a high level for longer and more consistently than the offense does. The offense has some bad moments, but ultimately makes big plays when they have to. I would say 90% of the time, the defense looks great, and maybe 50% of the time, the offense looks great. And in that 50%, it’s a majority of Josh’s play that makes them look great. That’s been our winning formula and I’m happy with it. Especially because the offense wasn’t close to 50% last year and the defense probably wasn’t close to 90% either.

 

It was your inane and arbitrary examples and strange off the wall comparisons that I debated because they were silly on their face.  Pointing exclusively to offensive TD’s by one player as an indication of how the offense performs as a whole? Which completely excluded yardage, field position, field goals and TD’s from other players? Stating that the Bills wouldn’t have won any games this year if their offense scored zero points the whole year and that somehow proves something?

 

I said it best earlier. There was a Josh Allen gas leak in here that had you spouting gibberish.

 

Actually, what happened was you waltzed your way into a discussion between biscuit and I that began when he said that this was a team that still wins with its defense (direct quote), and I pointed out that that's not true.

 

And for some reason, that upset your delicate temperament. Maybe it's the holiday stress? I don't know. Grab an eggnog or a Rumchata hot chocolate and chill.

 

There's no need to let the fact that you still don't understand the point ruin your day. All is well. The Bills are in the playoffs (no thanks to that dreadful offense ?) and we should all be happy.

 

Merry Christmas!

[row_33]

44 minutes ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

The only shame is it appears we have no passing plays in the playbook for first or second down.

next year 

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

You know what's really not a fun to watch???   Watching your team lose 9,10 or 11 games season after season for almost 20 years. 

 

I'm not a big Beane/McDermott fan, and I remain skeptical about the team's commitment to building a team truly good enough to compete seriously for the Super Bowl, but that's an issue for the off season  It doesn't diminish how great it feels as a fan to FINALLY have a Bills team that's not only competitive in every game, but also wins most of the time ... or a team that again has "nothing to play for" in week 17, but finally for the right reason: a clinched playoff berth.

 

How can you NOT find a December game in Foxborough with playoff seedings on the line for both teams entertaining, especially when the Bills not only played the defending Super Bowl champion Patriots close but also had a real chance to tie the game in the closing seconds??? 

 

 

 

Again read that I am excited about the Bills & as big a fan as there is (I'm here way too much).  

 

The point is their offense has been pretty much at the bottom of the league the last three years, and I don't see a concerted effort to improve.  Better yes, but no where near their potential.

 

I really too like Allen, but seeing how he is coached & how McD plays for 17 points a game is frustrating.  I am tired of him being called a project, while Daniel Jones, Kyler Murray & a host of nobodies (and never will be's) are capable of lighting it up in their first few NFL starts.

 

Again 47 games under McD (a 25-21 record) and not a single 300 yard game.....  How that does not summarize the coaching issues/philosophy on that side of the ball, nothing does.....

 

McD probably is calling the Army or Navy HC for ideas on the passing game...... ?

 

Army Passing

	C/ATT	YDS	AVG	TD	INT	QBR
Christian Anderson	2/4	18	4.5	0	0	51.1
Kelvin Hopkins Jr.	1/2	7	3.5	0	1	40.3
TEAM	3/6	25	4.2	0	1	--

Navy Passing

	C/ATT	YDS	AVG	TD	INT	QBR
Chance Warren	1/1	1	1.0	1	0	99.0
TEAM	1/1	1	1.0	1	0	--

Edited December 24, 2019 by Billsfan1972

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Actually, what happened was you waltzed your way into a discussion between biscuit and I that began when he said that this was a team that still wins with its defense (direct quote), and I pointed out that that's not true.

 

And for some reason, that upset your delicate temperament. Maybe it's the holiday stress? I don't know. Grab an eggnog or a Rumchata hot chocolate and chill.

 

There's no need to let the fact that you still don't understand the point ruin your day. All is well. The Bills are in the playoffs (no thanks to that dreadful offense ?) and we should all be happy.

 

Merry Christmas!

With all due respect, how did you prove the team with the 3rd ranked defense isn’t carrying the 22nd ranked offense (all teams ranked lower than us are non playoff teams)? 

[PaoloBillsFanFromItaly]

The reason why the Bills are 10-5  is clearly the defense. Whoever says the contrary is blind.

And in my opinion we are a true MLB and a solid CB away to be a superbowl team.

I hope that Tremaine will develop into the LB in its third year.

 

Most of you will disagree and would like to add talent to the WR group, but I think we are a step away from dominating the game like the Legion of Boom Seahawks.

[thebandit27]

13 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

With all due respect, how did you prove the team with the 3rd ranked defense isn’t carrying the 22nd ranked offense (all teams ranked lower than us are non playoff teams)? 

 

Maybe the issue is our definition of "carrying". When you stated that the team was winning with defense, my issue is that you literally can't win without scoring points, and we've definitely seen NFL teams of yore win games with defenses that score reliably. This defense isn't one of those.

 

That's not to say that they aren't great, or that they aren't a huge component of why this is a playoff team. It's only to say that the defense isn't winning games for this team. They're definitely keeping the team in some games when lesser units wouldn't, and that's the way it's supposed to be with defense. You shouldn't have to count on them to win games.

 

Look at last year's Bears team: the defense scored the deciding points in 3 games in 2018. This year they've managed only one score (down from 5 last year), and lo and behold, they've gone from 12-4 to 7-8. Is the defense much worse? Of course not; they're just no longer winning games for that team.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

12 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I know, appreciate football & am a Bills fan.

 

I also can tell you they are not a fun team to watch......  

 

I know as fans this is hard to understand, but they are a very boring team the way they play football....

 

K-Gun was fun, so was a lot of the Flutie run.  OJ & ground & pound was not that exciting & McD & this coaching philosophy has been successful against a weak schedule going 10-5, however the games have not been overly entertaining.....

 

Yep the Offense the past three years ranked 31, 30 & 24(or 25) too does not excite most football fans.....

 

And the bothersome part is I think this offense could be fun to watch, McD & Daboll however won't allow it.

 

Are none of you honest and can't see that?

 

Maybe people have a different definition of "fun" than you do. I think that much is pretty readily apparent.

 

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again read that I am excited about the Bills & as big a fan as there is (I'm here way too much).  

 

The point is their offense has been pretty much at the bottom of the league the last three years, and I don't see a concerted effort to improve.  Better yes, but no where near their potential.

 

I really too like Allen, but seeing how he is coached & how McD plays for 17 points a game is frustrating.  I am tired of him being called a project, while Daniel Jones, Kyler Murray & a host of nobodies (and never will be's) are capable of lighting it up in their first few NFL starts.

 

Again 47 games under McD (a 25-21 record) and not a single 300 yard game.....  How that does not summarize the coaching issues/philosophy on that side of the ball, nothing does.....

 

McD probably is calling the Army or Navy HC for ideas on the passing game...... ?

 

Army Passing

	C/ATT	YDS	AVG	TD	INT	QBR
Christian Anderson	2/4	18	4.5	0	0	51.1
Kelvin Hopkins Jr.	1/2	7	3.5	0	1	40.3
TEAM	3/6	25	4.2	0	1	--

Navy Passing

	C/ATT	YDS	AVG	TD	INT	QBR
Chance Warren	1/1	1	1.0	1	0	99.0
TEAM	1/1	1	1.0	1	0	--

 

I think you are not being realistic.  The Bills did not have a NFL caliber offense in 2018.  I do not believe that they had NFL caliber coaching on the offensive side, either.  

 

What the Bills have to work with on offense is very limited weapons and only 1 true playmaker: Josh Allen.  I think that McDermott and Daboll are working with what they have, and the name of the game is wins.  Their formula is trying to get the most out of what they have while trying hard not to expose their weaknesses.  No amount of coaching is going to make players taller or faster.   Simply put, the Bills need more and better talent on offense before they can even begin to implement a more explosive offense.

 

[JaCrispy]

35 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Maybe the issue is our definition of "carrying". When you stated that the team was winning with defense, my issue is that you literally can't win without scoring points, and we've definitely seen NFL teams of yore win games with defenses that score reliably. This defense isn't one of those.

 

That's not to say that they aren't great, or that they aren't a huge component of why this is a playoff team. It's only to say that the defense isn't winning games for this team. They're definitely keeping the team in some games when lesser units wouldn't, and that's the way it's supposed to be with defense. You shouldn't have to count on them to win games.

 

Look at last year's Bears team: the defense scored the deciding points in 3 games in 2018. This year they've managed only one score (down from 5 last year), and lo and behold, they've gone from 12-4 to 7-8. Is the defense much worse? Of course not; they're just no longer winning games for that team.

Meh...I see what you are saying, but on its face it seems like kind of a reach... I think most people don’t think of a defense as having to score points to carry a team...

 

For example, the offense is ranked in the bottom third of the league in scoring points- meaning this offense has done very little in justifying the bills being a playoff team...and furthermore, if the defense was ranked as low as the offense, the Bills would NOT be in the playoffs...

 

It is the very fact that the defense is able to contain most the league’s offenses, by being a top 5 unit, that it allows our mediocre offense to not have to produce much to still win the game.

 

So if the offense was top 10, then you could argue that both sides of the ball are equally matched and pulling their own weight..but the discrepancy between the two means that the defense carried the offense this season imo- which is fine...the offense will likely improve next year and hopefully contribute to the point where the defense doesn’t have to be relied upon so much every game.

[thebandit27]

2 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Meh...I see what you are saying, but on its face it seems like kind of a reach... I think most people don’t think of a defense as having to score points to carry a team...

 

For example, the offense is ranked in the bottom third of the league in scoring points- meaning this offense has done very little in justifying the bills being a playoff team...and furthermore, if the defense was ranked as low as the offense, the Bills would NOT be in the playoffs...

 

It is the very fact that the defense is able to contain most the league’s offenses, by being a top 5 unit, that it allows our mediocre offense to not have to produce much to still win the game.

 

So if the offense was top 10, then you could argue that both sides of the ball are equally matched and pulling their own weight..but the discrepancy between the two means that the defense carried the offense this season imo- which is fine...the offense will likely improve next year and hopefully contribute to the point where the defense doesn’t have to be relied upon so much every game.

 

See this I agree with. The original bone of contention was that the defense isn't out there winning games. 

[HappyDays]

51 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

For example, the offense is ranked in the bottom third of the league in scoring points- meaning this offense has done very little in justifying the bills being a playoff team...and furthermore, if the defense was ranked as low as the offense, the Bills would NOT be in the playoffs...

 

 

Something that needs to be taken into account with McDermott as head coach is that our offense goes into a shell when we have a comfortable lead. We don't take as many opportunities to score points as other teams because he trusts our defense to win the game. Notable game examples from this year would be the Giants, both Dolphins games, Redskins, Broncos, and Cowboys. That's 40% of our games this year where we stopped trying to score points. Most of the top offenses in the league never stop. I would also point out we have scored exactly zero garbage time TDs this year.

 

I can't tell you how much those factors would affect our rankings but I believe it's fair to say those factors affect our offense more than just about any other offense in the league.

 

[JaCrispy]

40 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Something that needs to be taken into account with McDermott as head coach is that our offense goes into a shell when we have a comfortable lead. We don't take as many opportunities to score points as other teams because he trusts our defense to win the game. Notable game examples from this year would be the Giants, both Dolphins games, Redskins, Broncos, and Cowboys. That's 40% of our games this year where we stopped trying to score points. Most of the top offenses in the league never stop. I would also point out we have scored exactly zero garbage time TDs this year.

 

I can't tell you how much those factors would affect our rankings but I believe it's fair to say those factors affect our offense more than just about any other offense in the league.

 

This is true...once we get a one score lead, McD almost tries to get to the end of the game as quickly as possible by running the ball even if we have more than a quarter to play...so many frustrating times where I wanted the Bills to attempt to pick up the first down so they could end the game with the ball...but McD always seems to love giving the other teams another opportunity to score as long as it takes away their TO...truly is maddening and it’s a “play not to lose” mentality that probably trickles down into Allen being afraid to make a mistake.

 

As long McD is HC he will never rely on the offense to win the game...he might even hold them back from reaching their fullest potential.

Edited December 24, 2019 by JaCrispy

[Billsfan1972]

14 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

This is true...once we get a one score lead, McD almost tries to get to the end of the game as quickly as possible by running the ball even if we have more than a quarter to play...so many frustrating times where I wanted the Bills to attempt to pick up the first down so they could end the game with the ball...but McD always seems to love giving the other teams another opportunity to score as long as it takes away their TO...truly is maddening and it’s a “play not to lose” mentality that probably trickles down into Allen being afraid to make a mistake.

10-5 & the Bills have led by more then 2 TD's just once this year (16 vs. Miami)......  All on the coaching.  Almost every game too was still in dopubt in the fourth (less then one score).....  Again hard to believe from a 10 win team.  

Edited December 24, 2019 by Billsfan1972

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I feel like we have some talent on offense to work with to make a run. The defense is obviously very good but the offense has the players to get on a roll.

 

The only thing that scares me is if Singletary goes down the guy we sign will probably be starting.

[SoTier]

45 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Something that needs to be taken into account with McDermott as head coach is that our offense goes into a shell when we have a comfortable lead. We don't take as many opportunities to score points as other teams because he trusts our defense to win the game. Notable game examples from this year would be the Giants, both Dolphins games, Redskins, Broncos, and Cowboys. That's 40% of our games this year where we stopped trying to score points. Most of the top offenses in the league never stop. I would also point out we have scored exactly zero garbage time TDs this year.

 

I can't tell you how much those factors would affect our rankings but I believe it's fair to say those factors affect our offense more than just about any other offense in the league.

 

 

I think that the philosophy McDermott is using is sound when a team has a young somewhat erratic QB -- get ahead, run the ball, depend on a stout D, and don't let a stupid mistake kill you -- but I don't think that the Bills have a good enough OL and RBs to execute it. 

[row_33]

They don’t talk about the Bills.. whaaaaaaaa

 

Now they talk about the Bills but say mean things.... double whaaaaaaaa

[Buftex]

Michael Lombardi, former Browns GM, as wll as a pro-personnel guy for multiple franchises, was just on One Bills Live, ripping on Allen pretty hard too.  He wasn't quite as harsh as the HQ guys, but he seems unimpressed with Josh.  When Murphy asked him if the Bills "will be okay with Allen", he just kind of ignored the question...his reasoning was the usual stuff:  too inaccurate.    He says Jackson and Darnold are the best QBs from that draft, and says Mayfield is a "system QB".

Edited December 24, 2019 by Buftex

[34-78-83]

1 hour ago, Buftex said:

Michael Lombardi, former Browns GM, as wll as a pro-personnel guy for multiple franchises, was just on One Bills Live, ripping on Allen pretty hard too.  He wasn't quite as harsh as the HQ guys, but he seems unimpressed with Josh.  When Murphy asked him if the Bills "will be okay with Allen", he just kind of ignored the question...his reasoning was the usual stuff:  too inaccurate.    He says Jackson and Darnold are the best QBs from that draft, and says Mayfield is a "system QB".

That's just incredible.

Is Michael like 85 years old or just have Cleveland disease?