Allen slammed on ESPN

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

8 minutes ago, the skycap said:

Always controversial 

 

Just a buffoon lol

[Billsfan1972]

And Dan hit the nail on the head (as wrong as he was about Allen & the 4th quarter).....  No one is turning on the Bills (outside their & the opponents fans) Sunday @ 1:00 pm when there are 8 games to see a 17-16 game.....

 

BTW opposite the Baltimore game was a yawner NO vs. SF, which we know would have upset McD & his disciples here.....

[Z-Mann]

I just don't understand how both can't be true - feels like either you love Allen and he can do no wrong...and on the other side, if someone levels some criticism Allen's way, then they must think Allen is terrible and will always be awful.  

 

Both can be true - he's not having the year that we expected and he definitely has some opportunity to get better...but at the same time he's the QB of a playoff team and he has definitely contributed to some of our wins.  His passer rating has improved, along with his TD to INT ratio, and his DVOA is better this year than last.  His completion % also increased significantly as well...so there is a lot to like, and I feel like it's borderline foolish to say he isn't any better this year.

 

On the other side...he's become a game Manager at this point in his early career.  I hope we didn't draft up and pick a QB...to be a good game Manager.  There's nothing wrong with with a QB like this, and teams can win games with good game managers, and teams can make playoffs with good game managers...just have to expect that there is a ceiling with this type of QB, if this ends up being what he is.  

 

It is disheartening to see QB's who are in their first year perform statistically as good or better in 2019 than Allen.  Makes me think that, in today's NFL, anyone can be at LEAST an Andy Dalton or David Carr with any sort of decent coaching, but I was expecting JA to be better than that.  May still happen, just hasn't happen in 2019. 

[billsrul120]

On 12/20/2019 at 4:48 PM, Billsfan1972 said:

No I'm saying that the Bills for some reason (i.e. coaching philosophy & paly calling) have not reached 300 yards passing in almost 3 full seasons, while every friggin  team in the NFL is capable & does it at least once a season.

 

 

Right so you concede that 300 yards doesn't really mean anything to the team winning?

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, Z-Mann said:

I just don't understand how both can't be true - feels like either you love Allen and he can do no wrong...and on the other side, if someone levels some criticism Allen's way, then they must think Allen is terrible and will always be awful.  

 

Both can be true - he's not having the year that we expected and he definitely has some opportunity to get better...but at the same time he's the QB of a playoff team and he has definitely contributed to some of our wins.  His passer rating has improved, along with his TD to INT ratio, and his DVOA is better this year than last.  His completion % also increased significantly as well...so there is a lot to like, and I feel like it's borderline foolish to say he isn't any better this year.

 

On the other side...he's become a game Manager at this point in his early career.  I hope we didn't draft up and pick a QB...to be a good game Manager.  There's nothing wrong with with a QB like this, and teams can win games with good game managers, and teams can make playoffs with good game managers...just have to expect that there is a ceiling with this type of QB, if this ends up being what he is.  

 

It is disheartening to see QB's who are in their first year perform statistically as good or better in 2019 than Allen.  Makes me think that, in today's NFL, anyone can be at LEAST an Andy Dalton or David Carr with any sort of decent coaching, but I was expecting JA to be better than that.  May still happen, just hasn't happen in 2019. 

 

In a good or bad way?  I think he's done better than most expected.  There were way more people labeling him a bust before the season started.  He's improved just about everywhere, is he still missing throws, yes, but he still has limited  WR's and his completion percentage will likely never be great as he doesn't throw the 5 yard dump offs.

[C.Biscuit97]

The best part of this are the fans most upset are the ones who call everyone ❄️.  Who cares?  Allen is still pretty raw and while I definitely have seen some very positive signs, this is still a team that wins with its defense.  What do you think they were saying about Mitchell last year and Bortles before? The key for Allen is to prove he is more than along for the ride and without a doubt will get to show that in the playoffs and next year at worse.  

[wppete]

On 12/19/2019 at 6:42 AM, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Start at 6:13. This is some of the most vehement hate for Allen I've seen. Methinks this should find its way to Josh...

 

 

Absolutely ridiculous!

This guy a tool. Probably never played a sport in his life. This guy and his cartoon character father are complete idiots.

[TPS]

1 hour ago, billsrul120 said:

Right so you concede that 300 yards doesn't really mean anything to the team winning?

Fwiw, the top 5 QBs, by total passing yards, are not in the playoffs. 

[C.Biscuit97]

5 minutes ago, wppete said:

This guy a tool. Probably never played a sport in his life. This guy and his cartoon character father are complete idiots.

As someone who used to have the same logic, are the only people who can call out athletes just former athletes?  
 

we have a different perspective on Allen because we’re Bills fans.  But there’s no way if you’re not a Bills fan, you are as sold on him.  And the best thing is Allen has all the power to prove them wrong. 

[thebandit27]

13 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The best part of this are the fans most upset are the ones who call everyone ❄️.  Who cares?  Allen is still pretty raw and while I definitely have seen some very positive signs, this is still a team that wins with its defense.  What do you think they were saying about Mitchell last year and Bortles before? The key for Allen is to prove he is more than along for the ride and without a doubt will get to show that in the playoffs and next year at worse.  

 

No offense here: name one game that this team won with defense.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, TPS said:

Fwiw, the top 5 QBs, by total passing yards, are not in the playoffs. 

Pat Mahomes almost 5,000 yards last year and nearly carried the 2nd worst defense in the nfl to the SB.  Passing yards is not a bad thing.  Why do Bills fans have such an outdated way of thinking?

[Scott7975]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Pat Mahomes almost 5,000 yards last year and nearly carried the 2nd worst defense in the nfl to the SB.  Passing yards is not a bad thing.  Why do Bills fans have such an outdated way of thinking?

 

I mean you have to at least admit that it isn't all Mahomes.  Certainly the most important part.  He does however have one of the best offensive coaches ever and targets so good that Watkins is the 4th best of the bunch.  Id take Brown and Beasley all day but this offense is lacking in more than just Allen.

[dave mcbride]

10 minutes ago, TPS said:

Fwiw, the top 5 QBs, by total passing yards, are not in the playoffs. 

Yet QBs ranked 6-11 are all in the playoffs. 

Edited December 23, 2019 by dave mcbride

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

No offense here: name one game that this team won with defense.

I know you’re smart that making this a trick question because the defense has scored no tds.  But:

 

Jets game. 16-0, could have been a blow out in the first half with the turnovers and short fields.  Offense doesn’t score until Moslesy leaves.  Defense is the only reason the game was winnable.

 

Titans. 
 

pit.

 

its a team game I know.  This defense gives Allen more chances to win games that most teams.  Other teams with bad defenses, see the Falcons, put their offense in immediate holes. Allen rarely has to deal with that.  And it’s not even a knock. It’s a good strategy for a young qb.  And as I always go back to, either Allen is Bortles or Mitchell or he’s Brady or Wilson.  But without a doubt, the defense is the MVP of this team.  Allen with a bad defense would be struggling big time. 

 

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I mean you have to at least admit that it isn't all Mahomes.  Certainly the most important part.  He does however have one of the best offensive coaches ever and targets so good that Watkins is the 4th best of the bunch.  Id take Brown and Beasley all day but this offense is lacking in more than just Allen.

I don’t disagree. But that great offensive coach targeted Mahomes and traded up for him.  He took a team to levels even a solid qb like Smith couldn’t imagine.  He’s just an elite player.  
 

At this point, Allen is a solid game manager with big play ability. You could do a lot worse that that.  Now the next step (and we may not see it this year because of the game plan) is if Allen can carry the team when the defense struggles. He almost got it done of Saturday and definitely made some big boy throws. 

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I know you’re smart that making this a trick question because the defense has scored no tds.  But:

 

Jets game. 16-0, could have been a blow out in the first half with the turnovers and short fields.  Offense doesn’t score until Moslesy leaves.  Defense is the only reason the game was winnable.

 

Titans. 
 

pit.

 

its a team game I know.  This defense gives Allen more chances to win games that most teams.  Other teams with bad defenses, see the Falcons, put their offense in immediate holes. Allen rarely has to deal with that.  And it’s not even a knock. It’s a good strategy for a young qb.  And as I always go back to, either Allen is Bortles or Mitchell or he’s Brady or Wilson.  But without a doubt, the defense is the MVP of this team.  Allen with a bad defense would be struggling big time. 

 

I don’t disagree. But that great offensive coach targeted Mahomes and traded up for him.  He took a team to levels even a solid qb like Smith couldn’t imagine.  He’s just an elite player.  
 

At this point, Allen is a solid game manager with big play ability. You could do a lot worse that that.  Now the next step (and we may not see it this year because of the game plan) is if Allen can carry the team when the defense struggles. He almost got it done of Saturday and definitely made some big boy throws. 

 

Touched a nerve huh?

 

Look, the simple fact is that the team is not winning with defense. There are teams that do; the 2000 Ravens, 2015 Broncos, and 2019 Pats****** come to mind.

 

The QB has scored more TDs than all but a handful of other QBs in the league. That's decidedly NOT winning with defense. 

 

And for the record regarding non-Bills fan opinions of Allen: I have close friends that are both NE****** and Miami fans; each is unequivocally and thoroughly sold on Allen as a franchise QB.

[Scott7975]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I know you’re smart that making this a trick question because the defense has scored no tds.  But:

 

Jets game. 16-0, could have been a blow out in the first half with the turnovers and short fields.  Offense doesn’t score until Moslesy leaves.  Defense is the only reason the game was winnable.

 

Titans. 
 

pit.

 

its a team game I know.  This defense gives Allen more chances to win games that most teams.  Other teams with bad defenses, see the Falcons, put their offense in immediate holes. Allen rarely has to deal with that.  And it’s not even a knock. It’s a good strategy for a young qb.  And as I always go back to, either Allen is Bortles or Mitchell or he’s Brady or Wilson.  But without a doubt, the defense is the MVP of this team.  Allen with a bad defense would be struggling big time. 

 

I don’t disagree. But that great offensive coach targeted Mahomes and traded up for him.  He took a team to levels even a solid qb like Smith couldn’t imagine.  He’s just an elite player.  
 

At this point, Allen is a solid game manager with big play ability. You could do a lot worse that that.  Now the next step (and we may not see it this year because of the game plan) is if Allen can carry the team when the defense struggles. He almost got it done of Saturday and definitely made some big boy throws. 

 

I agree with you here man.  I think we are so close but not quite there yet.  Allen was so far behind, but I think has made good progress.  Another couple pieces on offense (for me a big target Allen can rely on to make the imperfect pass turn into a completion, and a little better on the O-line) and I think we will be even closer.  Allen I feel needs a ways to go but I also feel with time he will get there.  

 

Allen works hard to improve and it actually shows.  I have heard tons of other QBs that talk about working hard and stuff but it never shows.  There is a lot of promise here.  I think Allen CAN be that great QB.  I think it will just take another year or two to really show.

[reddogblitz]

28 minutes ago, TPS said:

Fwiw, the top 5 QBs, by total passing yards, are not in the playoffs. 

 

and of those 31 teams thAt have thrown for 300 yards, 22 of them are behind us in the W column.

Edited December 23, 2019 by reddogblitz

[C.Biscuit97]

5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Touched a nerve huh?

 

Look, the simple fact is that the team is not winning with defense. There are teams that do; the 2000 Ravens, 2015 Broncos, and 2019 Pats****** come to mind.

 

The QB has scored more TDs than all but a handful of other QBs in the league. That's decidedly NOT winning with defense. 

 

And for the record regarding non-Bills fan opinions of Allen: I have close friends that are both NE****** and Miami fans; each is unequivocally and thoroughly sold on Allen as a franchise QB.

Honestly, bro and it’s know it’s post. But I feel great and probably the most in on Allen since he’s been drafted.  Don’t what nerve you think you touched but it’s all good.  
 

I think this is a smart situation.  But let’s not pretend like Allen doesn’t benefit hugely from this defense.  This team can score 7 points for 3 quarters and still have a chance to win.  Not many qbs have that luxury.  And to Allen’s credit, he’s made plays at the end of games.   Mitchell T scored 27 tds in 14 games last year.  

7 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I agree with you here man.  I think we are so close but not quite there yet.  Allen was so far behind, but I think has made good progress.  Another couple pieces on offense (for me a big target Allen can rely on to make the imperfect pass turn into a completion, and a little better on the O-line) and I think we will be even closer.  Allen I feel needs a ways to go but I also feel with time he will get there.  

 

Allen works hard to improve and it actually shows.  I have heard tons of other QBs that talk about working hard and stuff but it never shows.  There is a lot of promise here.  I think Allen CAN be that great QB.  I think it will just take another year or two to really show.

Good post. I admit that guys like Allen scare me as qb prospects.  Guys with Allen’s production in a lower level conference rarely become franchise guys.

 

bur he certainly is doing his part and showing growth.  I would like to see a game against a good team where I can say without doubt Allen is the reason we won it.  He was very close against NE and as much as it sucked, I actually felt the best about him.  I still had the droughts we go on offense sometimes and think that is part of Allen’s inconsistency at this point.  But id be lying if I said there were a bunch of good things too.

[thebandit27]

27 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Honestly, bro and it’s know it’s post. But I feel great and probably the most in on Allen since he’s been drafted.  Don’t what nerve you think you touched but it’s all good.  
 

I think this is a smart situation.  But let’s not pretend like Allen doesn’t benefit hugely from this defense.  This team can score 7 points for 3 quarters and still have a chance to win.  Not many qbs have that luxury.  And to Allen’s credit, he’s made plays at the end of games.   Mitchell T scored 27 tds in 14 games last year.  

Good post. I admit that guys like Allen scare me as qb prospects.  Guys with Allen’s production in a lower level conference rarely become franchise guys.

 

bur he certainly is doing his part and showing growth.  I would like to see a game against a good team where I can say without doubt Allen is the reason we won it.  He was very close against NE and as much as it sucked, I actually felt the best about him.  I still had the droughts we go on offense sometimes and think that is part of Allen’s inconsistency at this point.  But id be lying if I said there were a bunch of good things too.

 

Of course man; you know we're just talking 'ball.

?

[GoBills808]

Boooooo more fighting