Allen slammed on ESPN

[Buffalo Junction]

3 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

You would be right in your observation if teams got points for completion percentage and yards, but they don't.  They get points for putting the ball in the end zone or through the uprights.  Allen ran for the Bills first TD and threw to Kroft in the EZ for the second one. 

This^^^ Points scored matter. Not the other crap that pads fantasy games. 

 

I totally agree with this.  Eli's stats make him look pretty average.  He also was also streaky, but when he was in his prime, he was less streaky and super clutch.  He beat the Patriots twice in the Super Bowl with clutch plays, most notably his pass to David Tyree in the Giants' second Super Bowl win over the Pats that spoiled their quest for a perfect season.

 

Which would you rather have?  Eli's average stats and 2 Lombardis or Rivers' great stats but never even making the Super Bowl???   I know which I'd rather have, but I don't play fantasy football so Ws count more for me than stats.

Clutch play never matters for the stats and analytics guys. It’s not as critical. 

 

 

Allen is a potential harbinger of doom for the folks super focused on analytics. By all of their measures and algorithms should not succeed... Yet... here he is winning games. All of the predator analytics guys are already eating crow because of Lamar Jackson, and if Allen takes this team on a deep playoff run their formulas are proved faulty. Admitting faulty science is difficult.

 

Truth is none of these metrics can predict drive, will, leadership, etc. They won’t admit that there’s no statistical formula that could predict whether Blackledge would be better or worse than Kelly or Marino... or that Cousins would be better than RGIII. Sadly, these dudes are just going to defend their predictions. There’s nothing anyone can do about it except tune out. The only way it changes is if players start snubbing these guys retroactively and only do mandatory interviews a la Marshawn. 
 

 

 

[kbarrettb]

End of posting in this thread after this. Allen needs to be better. The team is winning but this teams passing is 28th in the league. Not good enough. Allen needs to complete more passes and not hold onto the ball as much. Blame play calling. Receivers. Weather. We’re winning. Whatever fanatics do to blindly support whatever. But end of story he needs to Play better if you don’t see it. Then that’s on you. If you think Josh is a top 5 or top 10 quarterback in this league then good for you. He’s not. Sure Trent Dilfer won a super bowl. But that’s the outlier. You typically need a qb playing lights out to win a super bowl. He has the potential to get there. Hopefully he does. Right now he’s not playing well. Time to turn it around. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by kbarrettb

[Hapless Bills Fan]

21 minutes ago, kbarrettb said:

Lol ya I didn’t have him as my fantasy qb. I had Winston 

 

Ah, now This explains a lot

[thebandit27]

3 minutes ago, kbarrettb said:

End of posting in this thread after this. Allen needs to be better. The team is winning but this teams passing is 28th in the league. Not good enough. Allen needs to complete more passes and not hold onto the ball as much. Blame play calling. Receivers. Weather. We’re winning. Whatever fanatics do to blindly support whatever. But end of story he needs to Play better if you don’t see it. Then that’s on you. If you think Josh is a top 5 or top 10 quarterback in this league then good for you. He’s not. Sure Trent Dilfer won a super bowl. But that’s the outlier. You typically need a qb playing lights out to win a super bowl. He has the potential to get there. Hopefully he does. Right now he’s not playing well. Time to turn it around. 

 

So we must agree with you or else we are wrong?

 

No offense here, but you aren't going to get much meaningful dialogue with that approach...and a few of us have tried.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

So we must agree with you or else we are wrong?

 

No offense here, but you aren't going to get much meaningful dialogue with that approach...and a few of us have tried.

Defense wins championships.  That guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

[Mojo44]

7 minutes ago, kbarrettb said:

End of posting in this thread after this. Allen needs to be better. The team is winning but this teams passing is 28th in the league. Not good enough. Allen needs to complete more passes and not hold onto the ball as much. Blame play calling. Receivers. Weather. We’re winning. Whatever fanatics do to blindly support whatever. But end of story he needs to Play better if you don’t see it. Then that’s on you. If you think Josh is a top 5 or top 10 quarterback in this league then good for you. He’s not. Sure Trent Dilfer won a super bowl. But that’s the outlier. You typically need a qb playing lights out to win a super bowl. He has the potential to get there. Hopefully he does. Right now he’s not playing well. Time to turn it around. 

 Not only is this post pompous , it’s just a bad take. The only statistic that matters is wins. Also,  Allen is the best fourth-quarter quarterback in the league this year. MIssed it badly!

[Patrick Duffy]

I don't know but I heard from somewhere that Andre Roberts is a waste on the 46.

[thebandit27]

2 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

I don't know but I heard from somewhere that Andre Roberts is a waste on the 46.

 

Yes, but did you know that Andre Reed used to wear #46???

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, Mojo44 said:

 Not only is this post pompous , it’s just a bad take. The only statistic that matters is wins. Also,  Allen is the best fourth-quarter quarterback in the league this year. MIssed it badly!

Allen needs to become a lot better. It's not crazy to point that out. He's making progress, sure, but the offense overall is bad. It's of course not all on him, but he's at best an average NFL QB right now. As I've said with Allen, the two-player continuum that applies best to him is the Roethlisberger-Bortles one, and he needs to be getting closer to the left of that continuum if he's going to last. The decline in turnovers (13 on the season, which isn't bad) is a start, but there's a lot more that he has to do going forward. I think he can do it, but to assume it's a sure thing is a sign of homerism.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Yes, but did you know that Andre Reed used to wear #46???

 

I didn't, but I heard we can fix our offense by activating Duke Williams and Yeldon.

[kbarrettb]

15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Ah, now This explains a lot

Totally does. Winston had 4 tds and 458 yards passing. Terrible game right?

[dave mcbride]

27 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

So forget what he's done against top pass defenses like Denver and Dallas, or how he handled himself well against Pittsburgh's top 5 pass D, and focus solely on this game?

 

I doubt that's what you're saying; I'm more pointing out that a bad game in this scenario shouldn't damper anyone's spirits regarding Allen.

 

I also expect him to acquit himself this Saturday; if he doesn't play well, it won't portend confidence in this team's ability to win on the road this postseason.

I'm not putting much into Saturday's game. BB eats young QBs for breakfast, and he's fielding his best pass defense ever and playing at home. I hope Allen plays well, but I won't be upset if he doesn't have a great game. Few do up there. 

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

You sound like you just read a stat line.  He had 4 dropped passes against the Steelers and several against the Ravens. 

Literally every team has multiple drops almost every game. As I said elsewhere, I watched the Niners/Atlanta game, and both teams had at least 3 drops. It's part of the game. 

[SCBills]

35 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

 

 

That's all accurate.  Josh hasn't had a good day against a good QB yet.

 

 

 

Who do we consider a good QB? 

 

Recently, we've played two good QB's.  Dak and Lamar. 

 

Josh looked elite against Dallas.  Josh looked terrible against Baltimore. 

 

I think the differentiator is the defense.  He's struggled against the best defenses in the league, but been pretty good lately against a couple above average defenses in Denver and Dallas.  Miami, Denver, Dallas might be the best stretch of his career. 

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by SCBills

[london_bills]

24 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

So forget what he's done against top pass defenses like Denver and Dallas, or how he handled himself well against Pittsburgh's top 5 pass D, and focus solely on this game?

 

I doubt that's what you're saying; I'm more pointing out that a bad game in this scenario shouldn't damper anyone's spirits regarding Allen.

 

I also expect him to acquit himself this Saturday; if he doesn't play well, it won't portend confidence in this team's ability to win on the road this postseason.

It all factors in to knowing who Allen really is as a QB.

 

1. Whether he is going to be a good QB who gives you a chance to win but also inconsistent in games/moments with lower stat lines but still make plays

 

2. whether he gets worse against good teams and looks flustered often and is inaccurate (unlikely)

 

3. or whether he really is elite and can develop to control a game and be more consistent in games. With occasional great performances (and yes, maybe stat lines) 

 

 

[IDBillzFan]

The minute an NFL talking head makes a statement like "If Duck Hodges didn't throw four picks, he would have been better than Allen," you know it's time to turn it off.

 

You shouldn't be stupid enough to have that thought as a fan, let alone someone paid to give their opinion.

[Dopey]

6 hours ago, Qearly2018 said:

It's Highly Questionable why anyone would watch that show

I love watching that show, along with listening to the Dan Le Batard Show on radio.  I definitely disagree with him on Allen, but those shows are a nice change of pace for me. 

'You just don't get the show" is a quote they constantly throw out there to anyone who asks why they talk very little sports. They talk about the sports world, just not much in the way of x' and o's. They know this and even make fun of themselves for this, while acknowledging you can go anywhere and get the "boring" x's and o's shows. They even say you can go watch, "oh, I don't know, Undisputed. You'll be back".

IMO, there is no show worse than Undisputed.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Dopey

[thebandit27]

3 minutes ago, kbarrettb said:

Totally does. Winston had 4 tds and 458 yards passing. Terrible game right?

 

Flashy for sure. In fact, he leads the NFL in passing yards.

 

He also leads the league in interceptions by a mile--33% more than anyone else. In fact, his total TD to total TO ratio is 31:30; that's pretty bad.

 

By contrast, Allen has a passer rating that's only 3 points behind Jameis. He also has a total TD to total TO ratio of 27:13.

 

So for as fantastic as Jameis appears to be, he's scored 4 more TDs than Allen and has turned the ball over 17 more times.

 

 

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

I'm not putting much into Saturday's game. BB eats young QBs for breakfast, and he's fielding his best pass defense ever and playing at home. I hope Allen plays well, but I won't be upset if he doesn't have a great game. Few do up there. 

 

Generally agree as usual...though I really do expect Josh to be better given that he's seen them once already this season.

 

The precedent is a very small sample size, but both times he's faced the same defense a second time in a season (both Miami--I know, I know), he's had excellent games

[billsfan1959]

30 minutes ago, kbarrettb said:

End of posting in this thread after this.

 

[london_bills]

2 minutes ago, london_bills said:

It all factors in to knowing who Allen really is as a QB.

 

1. Whether he is going to be a good QB who gives you a chance to win but also inconsistent in games/moments with lower stat lines but still make plays

 

2. whether he gets worse against good teams and looks flustered often and is inaccurate (unlikely)

 

3. or whether he really is elite and can develop to control a game and be more consistent in games. With occasional great performances (and yes, maybe stat lines) 

 

 

I meant often great performances at the end 

[oldmanfan]

11 minutes ago, kbarrettb said:

Totally does. Winston had 4 tds and 458 yards passing. Terrible game right?

Now let’s pick a game where he 4 picks.  Terrible game,  right?

 

Quit while you’re behind.