The Bills should re-sign Shaq and J. Phillips

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

18 minutes ago, TPS said:

His numbers this year show that he's as good if not better than most of the UFA options for 2020, which is what I'm arguing.  It remains to be seen if McD thinks he's a fit.  While Beane and McD talk about signing your own, Shaq was not their selection, so I think it comes down to their belief on whether or not he truly fits their process?  Either way, he'll get a pretty good payday.

this is one of those situations where stats lie a bit. his sack numbers are inflated by the broncos game, where they pretty much blew assignments and let him go unblocked to the QB At least twice. 
 

plus, even with his good stats, he’s not the type of speed rushing end that teams typically invest him. 
 

I think he has had a solid season and someone pay him based on his production, but we can take the money we would pay him and get more of a speed disrupted kind of DE.

[section122]

14 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

this is one of those situations where stats lie a bit. his sack numbers are inflated by the broncos game, where they pretty much blew assignments and let him go unblocked to the QB At least twice. 
 

plus, even with his good stats, he’s not the type of speed rushing end that teams typically invest him. 
 

I think he has had a solid season and someone pay him based on his production, but we can take the money we would pay him and get more of a speed disrupted kind of DE.

 

Every de gets those.  Strahan set the record on favre diving. 

 

Shaq has the production of guys who are thought of much higher and have signed some big money deals.  Calais campbell signed for 4/60.  Frank clark was traded for a 1st and more and got 5/105.  Shaq matches their production this season playing less snaps.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by section122
There their they're

[Formerly Allan in MD]

7 hours ago, 1ManRaid said:

I feel like I've read this a dozen times in the last month.  Must be my mind playing tricks on me.

Perhaps two dozen.

[LSHMEAB]

My prediction is that Shaq is gonna get overpaid and the 7 mil/per is a pipedream. Some team is gonna view him as a late bloomer/cusp of dominant type end, which he is not. Nice player and I WOULD resign him at 7mil/per, but I'm not buying it.

 

I would resign Phillips because the guy gets after the QB. He's not gonna get some massive contract that'll "set the franchise back" so the fear that he stops "playing hard" just isn't a compelling argument.

 

Gotta get a stud DE and first and foremost, which makes paying Lawson unnecessary. 

22 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

this is one of those situations where stats lie a bit. his sack numbers are inflated by the broncos game, where they pretty much blew assignments and let him go unblocked to the QB At least twice. 
 

plus, even with his good stats, he’s not the type of speed rushing end that teams typically invest him. 
 

I think he has had a solid season and someone pay him based on his production, but we can take the money we would pay him and get more of a speed disrupted kind of DE.

Boom.

Edited December 19, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[Kiva]

Extend them. Keep this group together as long as possible. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Shaq's 5th year option was 9.5 million.  His new contract (wherever that is) won't be THAT high I don't think.

Personally I don't think Shaq is playing well this year just for the money, he was in a weird situation and seems to be finding his way.

It happens that way sometimes.

It's likely to be in that neighborhood. He'll get close to $10 million a year easily on the open market.

[ComradeKayAdams]

Sign both. Overpay a bit if necessary. Many of you continue to underestimate the value of locker room culture. Lawson and Phillips are in their prime athletic years and fit in very well with this team - both on and off the field.

 

"But Kay!" says you. "What about the salary cap?? There isn't enough money to go around for both, you silly girl!"

 

My response is this: yes there is. Check the numbers. The team needs to spend $90+ million (according to the NFLPA) next year but has few remaining roster holes, so the money needs to go somewhere. Allen's still on his rookie contract, so Beane can afford to front-load contracts for a couple more years. If you're worried about dedicating so much money to the DL, remember that Murphy's contract is up after next year and that both Hughes and Star may be gone after 2020 as well (with very manageable dead cap hits).

 

 

[T master]

Just wrote a post about this same thing !! 

[purple haze]

8 hours ago, hjnick said:

 

Good DT, definitely try to resign Phillips...

 

Shaq is a different situation.  We thought so 'highly' coming into this year that we passed on his 5th year of his deal...

So this year Shaq is playing for a new deal.  So has he really matured or is he just balling out THIS year so he can get a good contract?

Most of the time people that are only playing for a deal revert back to their 'normal' not hair on fire performance.

This is a misnomer.  Shaq was playing pretty well last season too.  This year he's gotten even better, but he was trending up.  Fifth year option wasn't picked up because he had one year of decent production previously.  Now he has two.  Give him Murphy's money.  That's probably what he's looking at from most teams anyway.  7 or 8 million per.  Not overly expensive.

Edited December 19, 2019 by purple haze

[Pbomb]

10 hours ago, MJS said:

 

He probably has, which makes him average. Nobody on our line is a dominant pass rusher. Defensive ends who can stop the run, but can't produce sacks, grow on trees.

Well we are 7th in the league in sacks so someone must be doing something 

[MJS]

11 minutes ago, Pbomb said:

Well we are 7th in the league in sacks so someone must be doing something 

Collectively as a team, but there isn't anyone who is dominant as a pass rusher.

[TPS]

8 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

this is one of those situations where stats lie a bit. his sack numbers are inflated by the broncos game, where they pretty much blew assignments and let him go unblocked to the QB At least twice. 
 

plus, even with his good stats, he’s not the type of speed rushing end that teams typically invest him. 
 

I think he has had a solid season and someone pay him based on his production, but we can take the money we would pay him and get more of a speed disrupted kind of DE.

If you think his sack numbers are inflated, then focus on QB hits. You'd be hard-pressed to find another FA DE with his level of production. He also has the flexibility to play both end positions, and has. If you pay big money for a FA edge rusher, that person will split time with Hughes, who will be here another 2 years. I can't see them doing this..?

 

Their most likely options:

1. Let Shaq walk: DEs are Murphy, Johnson, Hughes, Love, Draft an edge. Low cost, most likely lower production. 

2. Same as #1, but sign an edge. High cost for someone splitting time with Hughes. Production impact?

3. Sign Shaq and draft an edge. High cost, position flexibility, Production the same

4. Sign Shaq, release Murphy, and draft an edge. Medium cost (save about $7 mil releasing Murphy) higher production (Shaq is starting LDE), more position flexibility. 

 

Personally, I think #4 is the best option, but I doubt they release Murphy. 

 

[TPS]

Wow, comparing Murphy and Shaq, the decision is a no-brainer. 

Trent: 574 snaps, 3 sacks, 6 QB hits, 7 TFLs, 28 TT

Shaq: 435 snaps, 6.5 sacks, 17 QB hits, 12 TFLs, 30 TT

 

It will be interesting to see how this plays out next year. Time to focus on beating the Pats...

[Pirate Angel]

I think star gets released, clearing up cap space. Resigning just depends on the market, this front office seems to favor team friendly contracts meaning they can release them with little financial burden if they dont produce. So it will be a matter of how bad do they want to be here or do they want a guaranteed contract. I'm thinking this DNA they look for is wanting to earn your paycheck.

[Freddie's Dead]

Sal had the right idea on this the other day.  Transition tag Shaq.  It will save a few mill over the franchise tag, and you get compensation if another team makes him an offer and he signs.  McBeane will not pull a Doug Whaley and get rid of Shaq for a 5th rounder (remember Hogan and TD Mike?).  He'll give him the 2nd round transition tag, which will be just compensation for Shaq.

[hjnick]

9 hours ago, purple haze said:

This is a misnomer.  Shaq was playing pretty well last season too.  This year he's gotten even better, but he was trending up.  Fifth year option wasn't picked up because he had one year of decent production previously.  Now he has two.  Give him Murphy's money.  That's probably what he's looking at from most teams anyway.  7 or 8 million per.  Not overly expensive.

If we can sign him for 7/8 Mil a year.  I'm all for that.   I just don't want to resign him at a higher price than his 5th year contract would have been...

 

There's still 2 games left plus playoffs.  If he get a couple of more sacks this season, I would expect the price to keep going up.  Just like you said, he is trending up.

[Bulldog]

Let's be careful here - I like the way Shaq & Phillips are playing as much as everyone else -- however, let's not return to the days of salary cap jail. We cannot have a maximum salary player at every position. We just spent a #1 pick on a guy (Oliver) who plays essentially the same position as Phillips. Shaq has only shown this kind of production this year & we have contracts for Tre White, Josh Allen &  other key players (Edmunds & Milano, etc.) looming in the near future. Tough decisions -- the attitude of "just sign everyone" will not cut it. I guess this is why GM's make the big bucks -- but I guess it is nice to have this issue, instead of the issue we have had for so many years where most of our players were clearly not worth re-signing.

[TheFunPolice]

You could cut Kroft and Murphy, and tack on the same amount you're budgeting for Phillips this season and pay the man 16.7 million per year and break even cap-wise. 

 

26 year old, 340 pound DT's who can rush the passer don't grow on trees!

 

I could see 4 years, 60 million getting it done ($15/per). 

 

See below....

 

Phillips is not the type of guy who is going to stop playing when he gets paid... I can't see it

 

I also think that a 340+ lb DT that can get 9-10 sacks lined up next to Harry and Oliver is a great thing to have, so I would 100% pay Phillips if it came down to picking one of the 2.

 

It's easy to see where they could find the $:

 

1) Cut Kroft ($5 million)

 

Kroft is getting $6/yr. Cutting him would save around $5 million next season on the cap (after the dead cap number)

 

2) Cut Murphy ($7.2 million) 

 

Murphy's cap hit is 8.9 million next year, with about 1.7 million on dead cap if he is cut) 

 

That's 12.2 million in space freed up right there. Phillips is getting 4.5 million this year already.

 

4.5+7.2+5= 16.7 

 

Draft a DE to replace Murphy, who has not done much anyway. Kroft has been an almost total non-factor, and almost surely will be gone. 

 

Another realistic option might be to move on from Ty Nseke, which would save about $4 million on the cap after the dead money. Pat DiMarco is also getting 2.3 million and isn't really used. There are a lot of options to make a few cuts and not even dip into the projected cap space. 

 

In the end, the Bills have a ton of cap space, so they can pretty do much do whatever they want at this point and not get into trouble. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by TheFunPolice

[dave mcbride]

5 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

You could cut Kroft and Murphy, and tack on the same amount you're budgeting for Phillips this season and pay the man 16.7 million per year and break even cap-wise. 

 

26 year old, 340 pound DT's who can rush the passer don't grow on trees!

 

I could see 4 years, 60 million getting it done ($15/per). 

 

See below....

 

Phillips is not the type of guy who is going to stop playing when he gets paid... I can't see it

 

I also think that a 340+ lb DT that can get 9-10 sacks lined up next to Harry and Oliver is a great thing to have, so I would 100% pay Phillips if it came down to picking one of the 2.

 

It's easy to see where they could find the $:

 

1) Cut Kroft ($5 million)

 

Kroft is getting $6/yr. Cutting him would save around $5 million next season on the cap (after the dead cap number)

 

2) Cut Murphy ($7.2 million) 

 

Murphy's cap hit is 8.9 million next year, with about 1.7 million on dead cap if he is cut) 

 

That's 12.2 million in space freed up right there. Phillips is getting 4.5 million this year already.

 

4.5+7.2+5= 16.7 

 

Draft a DE to replace Murphy, who has not done much anyway. Kroft has been an almost total non-factor, and almost surely will be gone. 

 

Another realistic option might be to move on from Ty Nseke, which would save about $4 million on the cap after the dead money. Pat DiMarco is also getting 2.3 million and isn't really used. There are a lot of options to make a few cuts and not even dip into the projected cap space. 

 

In the end, the Bills have a ton of cap space, so they can pretty do much do whatever they want at this point and not get into trouble. 

Call me crazy, but I feel like Murphy has been quite disruptive and a real presence the last few weeks. He has 3 sacks, sure, but he also has 3 passes defensed, 2 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries, an INT, and a good number of pressures. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by dave mcbride

[TheFunPolice]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Call me crazy, but I feel like Murphy has been quite disruptive and a real presence the last few weeks. 

 

I am fine with him staying, because we have tons of cap space and he does make some plays... He only has 1 more year after this anyway, so his contract is not a killer. 

 

Hughes also comes off the books in 2 years.

 

When you look at how Beane has structured things, this team should be pretty flexible for quite a while.  I am always for paying your own and keeping the close knit group together as much as possible. 

In terms of Shaq I am a bit less inclined to re-sign for top $$

 

IF we could get him at something like 3 years, $30 million I would consider it, especially since Murphy and Hughes come off the books soon anyway.

 

However,  I think someone will pay him more than that based on being part of this defense.