Rational Thoughts After Playoff Clinching Win

[PaattMaann]

40 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Quick question......who else was a little taken back at DiMarco being sent out wide on numerous occasions last night lol?

 

its done to identify coverage 

[cd1]

4 hours ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Quick question......who else was a little taken back at DiMarco being sent out wide on numerous occasions last night lol?

 

THIS  ^^^^

 

I think this team has what it takes to BEAT the Pats.

 

I have suspected that these games get in Dabolls head. He seems to resort to trickery which implies he lacks faith in the players.

 

God knows what is in Dabolls head regarding Beli and the Pats. Please don't spread your fears to the rest of the offense.

 

Maybe McD has to give another "FEARLESS" speech.

Edited December 16, 2019 by cd1

[reddogblitz]

24 minutes ago, ALLEN1QB said:

1st 10 win season this century.  Is anybody else getting sick in tired every time I watch a bills game they come up with some BS stats this was the newest one last night they are always trying to make Buffalo look bad what is their problem

 

The one I have heard that I like is Buffalo has made the playoffs for the 2nd time in 3 years.

[Patrick Duffy]

18 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The commentators last night were IMO sad.  Beyond bad, just sad.

 

The worst part was at the end when I guess (Collinsworth?) was trying to be complimentary to McDermott.  He said something like "and you just have to wonder, how sweet this is for Sean McDermott, who had to line up across from Mike Tomlin all those days, knowing he was the lesser athlete, knowing he didn't have great opportunities to win those battles, and yet here tonight, to go to the playoffs, (flat tone) he won it"

 

To do whoever that was justice (Collinsworth?), I don't think he could have found something more of a put-down disguised as a compliment to say about our coach if he thought it out with both hands all weekend.  No way McDermott walked on and won a starting slot and a scholarship (and Tomlin's respect - "I wanted no part of him") if he had any such weak-ass wimp thoughts in his mind at the time, much less carried them down the years. 

 

I do think those days formed McDermott's conviction that he can win with lesser guys if he has confidence in their abilities to succeed and is consistent in coaching their fundamentals to be better, because that was the path he followed himself.

 

I saw a post from someone last night after the game (can't find it now) that coach McD said something in regards to Collinsworth during the locker room speech. Wondering if anyone has posted the video of it yet?

[GoBills808]

23 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The commentators last night were IMO sad.  Beyond bad, just sad.

 

The worst part was at the end when I guess (Collinsworth?) was trying to be complimentary to McDermott.  He said something like "and you just have to wonder, how sweet this is for Sean McDermott, who had to line up across from Mike Tomlin all those days, knowing he was the lesser athlete, knowing he didn't have great opportunities to win those battles, and yet here tonight, to go to the playoffs, (flat tone) he won it"

 

To do whoever that was justice (Collinsworth?), I don't think he could have found something more of a put-down disguised as a compliment to say about our coach if he thought it out with both hands all weekend.  No way McDermott walked on and won a starting slot and a scholarship (and Tomlin's respect - "I wanted no part of him") if he had any such weak-ass wimp thoughts in his mind at the time, much less carried them down the years. 

 

I do think those days formed McDermott's conviction that he can win with lesser guys if he has confidence in their abilities to succeed and is consistent in coaching their fundamentals to be better, because that was the path he followed himself.

Neither Collinsworth or Michaels seemed to accept that Bills had won the game and qualified for the playoffs. You could hear the resistance in their voices. It was glorious

5 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

 

I saw a post from someone last night after the game (can't find it now) that coach McD said something in regards to Collinsworth during the locker room speech. Wondering if anyone has posted the video of it yet?

Would like to hear that for the lols

 

In his postgame he seemed genuinely happy about the idea of getting back to BUF and seeing the fans. Pretty cool way of looking at a playoff clinching W from your HC imo

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Would like to hear that for the lols

In his postgame he seemed genuinely happy about the idea of getting back to BUF and seeing the fans. Pretty cool way of looking at a playoff clinching W from your HC imo

 

Here is what's up on Buffalobills.com

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/victory-speech-they-got-no-idea-how-big-the-heart-is-in-this-locker-room

 

It's not complete so maybe it's somewhere else, but he may have alluded:

"they can talk to us about how small we are, and how we're not fast enough and big enough, they have no idea how big the heart is in this locker room"

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Here is what's up on Buffalobills.com

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/victory-speech-they-got-no-idea-how-big-the-heart-is-in-this-locker-room

 

It's not complete so maybe it's somewhere else, but he may have alluded:

"they can talk to us about how small we are, and how we're not fast enough and big enough, they have no idea how big the heart is in this locker room"

I saw some quote from Beane as well, re:Allen and something along the lines of he didn't care what the advanced stats or analytics said, he cares about Ws and Ls...the message is pretty consistent across the board rn

[warrior9]

50 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

 

its done to identify coverage 

Sometimes this... sometimes it's to get an LB out of the box.. Or it's to get another LB on the field for the defense to take a CB off the field. 

[26TrapDraw]

1 hour ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Quick question......who else was a little taken back at DiMarco being sent out wide on numerous occasions last night lol?

I would of taken any other aback than Dimarco.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, corta765 said:

The page has been turned, the stone has been written on, and peace has been restored. Ladies and gentleman the Bills made the playoffs for the second time in three years and as one of the many who are part of the lost generation (aka drought years) I have peace with a new era and leaving that past behind. Growing up as a child (born 1988) I have very vague memories of the Bills doing well. My first playoff memory was Flutie in 98 losing in Miami. I tried ripping my Dolphin playing cards up I was so mad. Then 99 happened with the music city miracle. I watched religiously the 1990 highlight video its 58 minutes long on VHS at my grandparents and the comeback game which my grandfather recorded on VHS. But again this was a past I like many my age know small pieces of and seem truthfully more legend then reality because I wasn't old enough minus the end to truly live it.

 

I am happy for you!

 

I started watching the Bills with my grandpa in the mid-60s.  About my first Bills memory was the back to back AFL championships with Jack Kemp. 

I grew up during the long lean years of the late 60s and 70s, the early '80s Ferguson flirt with good, and the plummet back to the depths in the mid-'80s followed by the long claw back.  I say this just to point out that being a perennial Bills fan has been a long-time mixture of good and bad years.  The late 80s-early 90s were preceded by a long dry stretch of pain.  That said, for me the SHOUT! song brings a special mix of elation because it is associated with those kick-ass late 80s-early 90s teams when fans of visiting teams in what was then Rich Stadium heard it until they puked at the first 4 notes, we scored so much.  It was GLORIOUS!

 

It's been a long dearth and I'm still more Hopeful than confident that it's over (for those who don't get the joke, my screen name used to be "Hopeful".  I changed it during Rex)

 

My comments:

1 hour ago, corta765 said:

3. Josh Allen is a true gamer and the confidence he gives in crunch time as pretty cool. For as much as I am a numbers guy the eye test is equally as important with how a player composes himself on the field and as the pressure cooks up. Say what you want about Brady but the guy in his career was terrifying anytime things got tight and I have always respected his ability to not sweat a moment when things got tight. Allen shows a lot of that to me and as the stage has expanded this year he has passed some good size tests whether it was Dallas on Thanksgiving or against PIT on SNF. He has not been perfect either as BAL he was off a bit and the first Pats game seemed too much for him in the 1st half. But the progress is certainly there and as things got more intense he has gotten steadier for the most part. One of the coolest things about making the playoffs is the Bills have a playoff birth with a QB leading them that they drafted and identified. That is a very very important thing that I do not want to undersell.

 

Collinsworth said something to the effect that they didn't understand why the Bills were so high on Allen until they interviewed him before the game and saw the energy he brought into the room.  I think that a lot of these guys are proving the old "let a man build up a reputation for being an early riser and he may sleep 'til noon" truism.

 

Allen has improved, and he has improved more than I thought he could, but he's got a long long way to go.  I just keep reminding myself that Russ Wilson that we see now, was not the Russ Wilson we saw his first few years.  Allen has dedication, he has work ethic, and he has smarts.  He has not had some of the tools more immediately successful QB have been surrounded by.  And he has the things you can't coach - charisma, the ability to inspire guys.  The "gamer" spirit that never wants to quit.   And the raw physical talent.    I believe he can controls the limits of what he will become.

 

1 hour ago, corta765 said:

4. Cole Beasley is either very good or very bad. The last two weeks he has been dreadful with ill time drops and an INT that is on him. People can say the throw could've been better etc... but I go back to where I was last year when Clay dropped Allens pass. It was a good enough pass for an NFL WR/TE to make the catch and they should make it. If you are not confident for the love of god don't go for it because the moment it gets fumbled its getting picked 95% of the time. Beasley started the year decent and then went cold from TEN - WSH getting just 91 yards for 11 catches although he did have 3 TD's. In the 4 game stretch of CLE - DAL  he had 20 catches, 298 yds, and 2 TDs. Now the last two weeks he has just 5 catches for 35 yards a TD and INT. He is vital to this offense being more productive and I do not think it is mistake that the best stretch the offense has had during the MIA-DEN-DAL stretch he was a big part of. Allen seems to avoid him if he makes a mistake early on which I understand a bit but it then hems the offense back. If there is one thing I want from the offense before the playoffs it is to get Beasley more consistently involved and for Cole to get his head together himself and be more dependable.

 

We have a bunch of guys on the offense that are maddeningly inconsistent: Knox.  Singletary. Beasley.  Even Brown - last night he made that contested catch in the face of PI.  In other games, he has not made contested catches.  The OL - Ford and Dawkins, but even Spain and Morse.  Perhaps it comes from being new to the offense, new to each other, and/or new to the league.   I hope so.

Anyway to Bease.  Not sure Allen avoids him.  For example, Bease missed a catchable ball that was leading him and would have converted on 3rd and 4 with 6:22.  Allen passed up an open Singletary behind the marker to wait for Bease, and it hit his hands (won't score as a drop though).  On the next series, Allen went right back to him on 2nd and 8 with 0:56 and Beasley made a nice catch and ran out of bounds for 6.  We converted on 3rd and scored our 1st TD.  On the next series, Allen threw two uncatchable balls - the first was about 2 yards short of where Beasley was and high - I'm not sure if Beasley ran a different route than Allen expected or what.  The second was batted.  Then there was the INT.  Bease scored as 1 of 6, and should IMO have been 3 of 6.

 

So I'm not sure it's so much that Allen "avoids" him as that the offense doesn't work as well when he and Beasley aren't "clicking".

 

1 hour ago, corta765 said:

7. Micah Hyde to me has taken a small step back this year. He has been responsible for being the safety who has missed a few big plays this year (Hurst BAL, Cooper play against DAL, etc). In no means am I saying he has been bad, but the last two years he was a Pro Bowler in my eyes and rewarded as such. This year I think he has just been decent and missed on a few plays that mattered. Perhaps it is just circumstance with things but I wouldn't be surprised to find out he has a small injury or something. He usually is good for a few turnovers and has been absent with those. Still love Micah though!

 

I thought in general our tackling was "off" last night relative to the Ravens game.  I hope we make adjustments and work on it.

 

 

 

[WideNine]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

I saw some quote from Beane as well, re:Allen and something along the lines of he didn't care what the advanced stats or analytics said, he cares about Ws and Ls...the message is pretty consistent across the board rn

 

It was likely in response to all the Scrappy walk-on stuff regarding McD not having any natural talent combined with the comical graphic Collinsworth did showing Allen's size compared to his receivers and Singletary. Collinsworth called them the smurph corps or something....

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2019 by WideNine

[IronyAbounds]

I said it early in the year and I think it still holds true. The Bills will go as far as their defense takes them. The offense, including Allen, is just too inconsistent to depend on to win in a shoot-out, so the defense has to keep the score down. All in all though, I'm thrilled the team is in the playoffs without needing a miracle. Now, if we can just get a miracle of two wins and two Pat's losses...

[kbarrettb]

Rational thought. This defense is outstanding. If the Bills could put together a good offense for 60 minutes. This team could be a bonafide Super Bowl contender. I just wish this teams offense could step up to the plate. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

A few concerns about last nights game.

 

did i miss it or did we not run the hurry up last night? Our offense is at its best when he hurry up and it looked the old offense that struggles to consistently move the ball.

 

why the hell cant we run a screen play?

 

what happened to josh running the sweep that was one of our best plays and haven't seen it in months?

 

 

[corta765]

33 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I am happy for you!

 

I started watching the Bills with my grandpa in the mid-60s.  About my first Bills memory was the back to back AFL championships with Jack Kemp. 

I grew up during the long lean years of the late 60s and 70s, the early '80s Ferguson flirt with good, and the plummet back to the depths in the mid-'80s followed by the long claw back.  I say this just to point out that being a perennial Bills fan has been a long-time mixture of good and bad years.  The late 80s-early 90s were preceded by a long dry stretch of pain.  That said, for me the SHOUT! song brings a special mix of elation because it is associated with those kick-ass late 80s-early 90s teams when fans of visiting teams in what was then Rich Stadium heard it until they puked at the first 4 notes, we scored so much.  It was GLORIOUS!

 

My comments:

 

Collinsworth said something to the effect that they didn't understand why the Bills were so high on Allen until they interviewed him before the game and saw the energy he brought into the room.  I think that a lot of these guys are proving the old "let a man build up a reputation for being an early riser and he may sleep 'til noon" truism.

 

Allen has improved, and he has improved more than I thought he could, but he's got a long long way to go.  I just keep reminding myself that Russ Wilson that we see now, was not the Russ Wilson we saw his first few years.  Allen has dedication, he has work ethic, and he has smarts.  He has not had some of the tools more immediately successful QB have been surrounded by.  And he has the things you can't coach - charisma, the ability to inspire guys.  The "gamer" spirit that never wants to quit.   And the raw physical talent.    I believe he can controls the limits of what he will become.

 

Yea I know my history pretty well on the Bills and there def were lean year. It's too bad Ralph wouldn't pay Chuck Knox it absolutely spiraled the team faster. Had the NFL expanded the playoffs earlier I think the 70s Bills would've had a few more appearances but such is life.

 

It was cool hearing Collinsworth say that about Allen. I think he himself probably undersold Allen in his own head, but virtually anyone who has met the guy after has said the same.

 

Def agree with the Wilson comparison. Rus really didn't find his true elite play until after the SB appearances ironically. I see some Big Ben too where he was OK for PIT for 2-3 years before taking that next leap. I wouldn't be surprised if realistically its around year 4 Allen truly finds himself just given what he needs to learn given his raw background.

4 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

A few concerns about last nights game.

 

did i miss it or did we not run the hurry up last night? Our offense is at its best when he hurry up and it looked the old offense that struggles to consistently move the ball.

 

why the hell cant we run a screen play?

 

what happened to josh running the sweep that was one of our best plays and haven't seen it in months?

 

 

 

Given Pitttsburgh's LACK of offense the Bills played a very straight forward game. Move the ball and score enough points so you have the lead. PIT was not gonna be able to get past 13-14 pts so truthfully running the clock was smarter then hurry up even if it meant lack of points. I agree the offense looks better when they are more creative but given the pressure issues against BAL and PIT's strength on D being the front 7 it was a smart move for this game. Long term yea I think the offense is better for running a quasi no huddle attack.

 

Screens idk wtf these idiots are doing. The one to Singletary got blown up for one yard... and then we took a 10 yard penalty.

 

I think teams found ways to cover the sweeps better and as the offense has found other things that work they have left that in their tool chest. My wife and I were hoping McKenzie would've got one of those jet sweep tosses, but if you do not use it a ton it becomes a weapon again in the future.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

59 minutes ago, BeefCurtns said:

I would of taken any other aback than Dimarco.

 

I understand!  But without all-22, just going on snap counts.....we ran a lot more heavy set/maximum protection this game.

DiMarco played 38% of the snaps, Frank Gore 29%.  Dawson Knox saw his snaps fall to 48% while Kroft rose to 30% and Lee Smith to 48%. 

McKensie fell to 46%, Beasley fell to 69%, and Roberts increased to 26%.  Foster played half the snaps on teams but did not play a single snap on offense.

 

All this was obviously aimed at keeping Josh on his feet, but it also meant a limited vocabulary of plays.  I think what you saw was Daboll's attempt to keep the defense a bit off balance.  It would work better if DiMarco caught his 1 target and did something to it.  In his defense, it was low, but it could have been caught.

 

24 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

A few concerns about last nights game.

did i miss it or did we not run the hurry up last night? Our offense is at its best when he hurry up and it looked the old offense that struggles to consistently move the ball.

 

We ran a few hurry-up plays, but we were making far more substitutions last night instead of running a base 11 set with McKensie, Knox, and Singletary.

 

Frankly I think it was worth the trade off; we were trying to stay in that base 11 set last week and it resulted in hideous mismatches like Knox on Judon, resulting in a strip sack rather than a more effective offense.  Josh Allen was sacked 1x for 8 yards instead of 6x for 41 yds and a fumble, that's more effective right there.  You can't move the ball effectively if you're sitting on your a** to paraphrase Terry Bradshaw.

 

We would have moved the ball better with a few more completions.  Some of those are likely on Allen - he had a few throws that were just off, though we can't rule out that the receiver didn't do as he expected.  But he had another handful that won't score as drops, but were catchable balls and would have moved the chains.

[rayray808]

Josh Allen is the future

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Me!  Me!  Pick Me!

 

I am happy.  I am beyond happy.  I couldn't get to sleep until the wee hours I was so happy.  I was playing the Shout! song and jumping up and down.

 

I also think we left a lot on the field, and some of the play calling was inexplicable to me.  Daboll having an attack of the "cutsies" again.

I think that coming off the Ravens game Daboll was finding adjustments to answer a very strong pass rushing/blitzing/sacking team. 
 

I didn’t like some play calls. I didn’t like some series. I’m not a Daboll supporter though don’t think he should be fired yet. However, I believe it was the right personnel groupings against a damn good front. The protection against the Steelers was light years better than against the Ravens. 

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, IronyAbounds said:

I said it early in the year and I think it still holds true. The Bills will go as far as their defense takes them. The offense, including Allen, is just too inconsistent to depend on to win in a shoot-out, so the defense has to keep the score down. All in all though, I'm thrilled the team is in the playoffs without needing a miracle. Now, if we can just get a miracle of two wins and two Pat's losses...

McD/Beane didn’t build an offense. He built a football team. This team is a year ahead of schedule imo and that’s attributed to good decision and good sound coaching. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

9 hours ago, corta765 said:

 

Yea I know my history pretty well on the Bills and there def were lean year. It's too bad Ralph wouldn't pay Chuck Knox it absolutely spiraled the team faster. Had the NFL expanded the playoffs earlier I think the 70s Bills would've had a few more appearances but such is life.

 

It was cool hearing Collinsworth say that about Allen. I think he himself probably undersold Allen in his own head, but virtually anyone who has met the guy after has said the same.

 

Def agree with the Wilson comparison. Rus really didn't find his true elite play until after the SB appearances ironically. I see some Big Ben too where he was OK for PIT for 2-3 years before taking that next leap. I wouldn't be surprised if realistically its around year 4 Allen truly finds himself just given what he needs to learn given his raw background.

 

Given Pitttsburgh's LACK of offense the Bills played a very straight forward game. Move the ball and score enough points so you have the lead. PIT was not gonna be able to get past 13-14 pts so truthfully running the clock was smarter then hurry up even if it meant lack of points. I agree the offense looks better when they are more creative but given the pressure issues against BAL and PIT's strength on D being the front 7 it was a smart move for this game. Long term yea I think the offense is better for running a quasi no huddle attack.

 

Screens idk wtf these idiots are doing. The one to Singletary got blown up for one yard... and then we took a 10 yard penalty.

 

I think teams found ways to cover the sweeps better and as the offense has found other things that work they have left that in their tool chest. My wife and I were hoping McKenzie would've got one of those jet sweep tosses, but if you do not use it a ton it becomes a weapon again in the future.

 

I still would have scored more which would have made them pass more and they wouldn't have been able to score And the game would have been a blow out and over sooner. Still can run the ball in a hurry up, dont have to pass more. The hurry up gives josh more time to adjust to the Defense and put us in better plays. Im glad we won but if duck connected on a few passes we would have been in trouble. Do what you do best , which is the hurry up.

 

 

9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I understand!  But without all-22, just going on snap counts.....we ran a lot more heavy set/maximum protection this game.

DiMarco played 38% of the snaps, Frank Gore 29%.  Dawson Knox saw his snaps fall to 48% while Kroft rose to 30% and Lee Smith to 48%. 

McKensie fell to 46%, Beasley fell to 69%, and Roberts increased to 26%.  Foster played half the snaps on teams but did not play a single snap on offense.

 

All this was obviously aimed at keeping Josh on his feet, but it also meant a limited vocabulary of plays.  I think what you saw was Daboll's attempt to keep the defense a bit off balance.  It would work better if DiMarco caught his 1 target and did something to it.  In his defense, it was low, but it could have been caught.

 

 

We ran a few hurry-up plays, but we were making far more substitutions last night instead of running a base 11 set with McKensie, Knox, and Singletary.

 

Frankly I think it was worth the trade off; we were trying to stay in that base 11 set last week and it resulted in hideous mismatches like Knox on Judon, resulting in a strip sack rather than a more effective offense.  Josh Allen was sacked 1x for 8 yards instead of 6x for 41 yds and a fumble, that's more effective right there.  You can't move the ball effectively if you're sitting on your a** to paraphrase Terry Bradshaw.

 

We would have moved the ball better with a few more completions.  Some of those are likely on Allen - he had a few throws that were just off, though we can't rule out that the receiver didn't do as he expected.  But he had another handful that won't score as drops, but were catchable balls and would have moved the chains.

 

dont need to be in 11 personal to hurry up, could have run 22 and still make plays, the hurry up allows for Josh to read the Defense and make better adjustments, which leads to more scoring and more likely to win, no need for nail biters when you can blow them out.