Josh Allen - week FIFTEEN report card

[BarleyNY]

35 minutes ago, syhuang said:

 

That is totally misleading.  Here is the whole chart:

 

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&rank=232&type=Receiving

 

The Bills have had 20 dropped passes.  The average (median) number of dropped passes is 15.  So the Bills have about 5 more dropped passes than you’d expect.  That’s about one additional dropped pass every three games.  Change 5 incompletions to completions on this season’s stat sheet and it’s negligible.

[Easterner]

Posts are either dropped or changed by some moderator, so why bother.

[rayray808]

49 minutes ago, syhuang said:

 

 

gotta update that chart after last nights drop festival 

[billsfan89]

14 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I disagree 100%

 

*  First off that was a brilliant back shoulder throw by Allen.  Mahomes & Rogers hit that pass all the time.  You do realize that the Steelers DB was called for PI on that play right?  That's what a great back shoulder throw does - catch it for a big gain or draw a PI.

 

*  Brown didn't really prevent a pick on that throw.  That was the moron Collingsworth trying to claim that the throw was almost intercepted.  Watch a replay and the DB would have had to make a spectacular play to INT that ball.  It was a good 50/50 ball by Allen and Brown did a nice job fighting for it and preventing any chance for an INT.  Pretty routine play by an NFL WR.

 

That POS Collinsworth was unbelievably negative about Allen.  That "almost interception" was a perfect example of it.

 

 

 

 

 

I hate Collinsworth but while I thought he was negative on Allen it was at least within reason. Allen has a lot of work to do as a QB and Collinsworth was at least pointing out legit things about Allen (Fumbles, missing some key passes, his base footwork etc.) Also Allen didn't play the best game on Sunday night. Allen came through when it counted and made enough plays to support a fantastic defensive effort. But let's not pretend like there wasn't anything to be critical about Josh just on his performance last night. 

[VW82]

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

Allen wasn't very good but he made a few good throws when it mattered. 

 

The fumbles and his propensity to take sacks on the cusp of field goal range need to get corrected. There must have been like 6-7 times this season when we had a 1st down somewhere between the 35-40 yard line in opposition territory, and he takes a drive killing 10 yard sack. He needs to learn to throw the ball away. 

An intentional grounding penalty isn’t any better. The real issue is he’s DFL in the entire NFL in time it takes to throw. Once he’s already screwed up the play with slow decision making I’d rather he try to bail us out by buying time, getting out of the pocket and risk giving up the sack. He’s really good at that. Making quicker, better decisions is the number one thing he needs to work on this off season IMO.

[Billsfan1972]

2 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Exactly. They did just what they needed to in order to defeat PIT, and took no chances with cheap turnovers. Not the same as they would need vs anyone else. In a win or go home situation, I don’t believe they’d have the same approach. 

And what has McD done in 47 games that makes you think otherwise?  They were ready to milk a 7-3 lead (as we saw at the end of the first half yesterday).

[thebandit27]

15 minutes ago, VW82 said:

An intentional grounding penalty isn’t any better. The real issue is he’s DFL in the entire NFL in time it takes to throw. Once he’s already screwed up the play with slow decision making I’d rather he try to bail us out by buying time, getting out of the pocket and risk giving up the sack. He’s really good at that. Making quicker, better decisions is the number one thing he needs to work on this off season IMO.

 

Let me get this straight: you're upset that he's last in TTT, and so your solution to the problem is for him to...scramble around?

 

Why. Do. You. Think. He's. Last. In. TTT.

 

???

 

Also, do you suppose that he holds the ball longer because the Bills WRs are woeful at creating separation?

 

When they run quick passing based plays he delivers with no trouble at all. In fact that's when he's at his best.

 

And by the way, per Next Gen, he's not "DFL". He's at 2.87 seconds on average. Guys that take longer include Dak, Rodgers, Lamar, and Kirk Cousins.

 

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing

Edited December 16, 2019 by thebandit27

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

And what has McD done in 47 games that makes you think otherwise?  They were ready to milk a 7-3 lead (as we saw at the end of the first half yesterday).

Each game is different. They knew PIT was great at forcing turnovers , but wasn’t likely to score offensively. They weren’t going to “ milk” a 7-3 lead for a half of football lol. Now, once they had a TD lead with under 10 minutes to play they got very low risk on offense. If a different QB is on the other sideline , they probably don’t feel that comfortable with just a TD lead. This offense as currently constructed has major limitations. Thats not going to change too much this season. I’d have preferred a more aggressive approach after the T White INT return, and such an approach will probably be required in a playoff game. The only playoff game we have to refer to was a different OC with Taylor at QB. 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

B-  Would have been a C+ but he saw Kroft and got it there.

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

Each game is different. They knew PIT was great at forcing turnovers , but wasn’t likely to score offensively. They weren’t going to “ milk” a 7-3 lead for a half of football lol. Now, once they had a TD lead with under 10 minutes to play they got very low risk on offense. If a different QB is on the other sideline , they probably don’t feel that comfortable with just a TD lead. This offense as currently constructed has major limitations. Thats not going to change too much this season. I’d have preferred a more aggressive approach after the T White INT return, and such an approach will probably be required in a playoff game. The only playoff game we have to refer to was a different OC with Taylor at QB. 

Again wishful thinking.  2:00 minutes for go first half & 3 timeouts & they were downright giddy when they got the first down and could go to the locker room up 7-3. 

 

If they were so confident playing Duck, why didn't they try & score points prior to the half?  

 

Because that's McD playing for a low scoring game.  

[Boatdrinks]

22 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again wishful thinking.  2:00 minutes for go first half & 3 timeouts & they were downright giddy when they got the first down and could go to the locker room up 7-3. 

 

If they were so confident playing Duck, why didn't they try & score points prior to the half?  

 

Because that's McD playing for a low scoring game.  

They were confident playing PIT offense for sure, so that’s exactly why they were content to not risk a turnover vs that defense while in search of a FG.  I had no problem with the strategy in that situation.Fine to take your lead into the half and make some adjustments. I mean, just what about the Bills offense makes you think they should play for shootouts ?

Edited December 16, 2019 by Boatdrinks

[CincyBillsFan]

53 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I hate Collinsworth but while I thought he was negative on Allen it was at least within reason. Allen has a lot of work to do as a QB and Collinsworth was at least pointing out legit things about Allen (Fumbles, missing some key passes, his base footwork etc.) Also Allen didn't play the best game on Sunday night. Allen came through when it counted and made enough plays to support a fantastic defensive effort. But let's not pretend like there wasn't anything to be critical about Josh just on his performance last night. 

 

I can't completely separate Collinsworth from PFF.  PFF has an ax to grind and Collinsworth as a PFF investor shares that same ax.  And given that this was the first time the Bills had been on Sunday Night football in a LONG time it was bush league by Collinsworth to bash Allen as much as he did.

 

Sure, some criticism was warranted last night.  But Collinsworth wouldn't let it drop and half his critique had more to do with tired old stereotypes that Allen wasn't even guilty of last night.  It was unrelenting and bordered on the obsessive.   I also don't recall a whole lot of praise from Collinsworth for the things Allen did well. 

 

You mention fumbles but Allen didn't fumble last night.  Singleterry did - TWICE yet Collinsworth glossed right over it so he could take another shot at Allen's footwork.  And when you look at lost fumbles, there are plenty of QB's who have as many or more then Allen.  Again, half of what Collinsworth spouted last night was a false narrative that either never was true or hadn't been true for the last 10 games.

 

As for missing key passes, which ones would that be?  Sure he badly missed Beasley in the flat on 2nd & 8 but it was hardly a key pass. 

 

Today I listened to the Cowherd show.  Now NO ONE can accuse Cowherd of being an Allen apologist.  In fact he was blisteringly critical of Allen after the Bills drafted him.  Today he kept including Allen by name when talking about athletic QB's who produce in the clutch being the future of the NFL.  IMO a more reasonable take by Collinsworth last night would have been along the lines of Allen being inconsistent but having all the tools to be elite. 

 

 

 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I can't completely separate Collinsworth from PFF.  PFF has an ax to grind and Collinsworth as a PFF investor shares that same ax.  And given that this was the first time the Bills had been on Sunday Night football in a LONG time it was bush league by Collinsworth to bash Allen as much as he did.

 

Sure, some criticism was warranted last night.  But Collinsworth wouldn't let it drop and half his critique had more to do with tired old stereotypes that Allen wasn't even guilty of last night.  It was unrelenting and bordered on the obsessive.   I also don't recall a whole lot of praise from Collinsworth for the things Allen did well. 

 

You mention fumbles but Allen didn't fumble last night.  Singleterry did - TWICE yet Collinsworth glossed right over it so he could take another shot at Allen's footwork.  And when you look at lost fumbles, there are plenty of QB's who have as many or more then Allen.  Again, half of what Collinsworth spouted last night was a false narrative that either never was true or hadn't been true for the last 10 games.

 

As for missing key passes, which ones would that be?  Sure he badly missed Beasley in the flat on 2nd & 8 but it was hardly a key pass. 

 

Today I listened to the Cowherd show.  Now NO ONE can accuse Cowherd of being an Allen apologist.  In fact he was blisteringly critical of Allen after the Bills drafted him.  Today he kept including Allen by name when talking about athletic QB's who produce in the clutch being the future of the NFL.  IMO a more reasonable take by Collinsworth last night would have been along the lines of Allen being inconsistent but having all the tools to be elite. 

 

 

 

Collinsworth is a clown, I can't separate him from PFF either. I heard they have Jordan Phillips ranked like 100th too. Jeez 9.5 sacks and second to Donald.

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Play for shootouts? 

 

No. But hell, how bout a little confidence in your offense and QB with plenty of time and all 3 TOs? They basically forfeited on offense with 8 minutes to go in the game.... McDermotts offensive philosophy seems to be play offense only when it’s absolutely necessary. 

Versus that defense, ( coupled with the lack of a threat at QB) it was not a terrible gamble. Singletary had already put the ball on the ground twice. PIT has a lot of takeaways. I don’t think they would treat it the same if a Watson, Brady, Mahomes et al were on the opposing sideline in a playoff game. We will find out soon enough. 

[VW82]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Let me get this straight: you're upset that he's last in TTT, and so your solution to the problem is for him to...scramble around?

 

Why. Do. You. Think. He's. Last. In. TTT.

 

???

 

Also, do you suppose that he holds the ball longer because the Bills WRs are woeful at creating separation?

 

When they run quick passing based plays he delivers with no trouble at all. In fact that's when he's at his best.

 

And by the way, per Next Gen, he's not "DFL". He's at 2.87 seconds on average. Guys that take longer include Dak, Rodgers, Lamar, and Kirk Cousins.

 

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing

 

Collinsworth said he was last in TT during the broadcast yesterday at over 3 seconds. I'm not sure where he got that but ESPN does a lot of work with Elias Sports Bureau so maybe it was from them, but we're kind of splitting hairs here. 

 

My solution is not to take intentional grounding penalties which is what the guy I responded to seemed to be advocating. You can't "just throw it away" from inside the pocket which is where the many of Josh's sacks have occurred. If he can't make quick decisions he might as well get out of the pocket. I would prefer he make quick decisions. 

 

I think he holds the ball a long time because he's slow at processing and afraid to make mistakes. And No, I don't think our super fast and shifty WR group of "smoke" Brown, Beasley, McKenzie, Foster, and Knox are woeful at creating separation. I think they're above average. They're well below average in making tough catches but that's another debate.   

Edited December 16, 2019 by VW82

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Jerome007 said:

A lot QBs are "rythm passers", they need to get in the flow more than others. It's clearly the case for Josh. When he's on a roll, the tempo is fast, etc. he is suddenly very accurate. When the offense is sputtering and run heavy, he gets inaccurate. I mean, it's like that for every QB but even more so for him, which is not a good trait. But thankfully, he is mentally tough and not easily rattled so he could be awful for long stretches and suddenly get hot for a few drives. And pressure doesn't phase him, he can be clutch for sure.

 

Very weird combo but I'll take it! As a fan I'll gladly take his weaknesses to get his strengths! He wins, he leads, and he is entertaining as can be. Snif, he's my quarterback, snif.

 

 

 

Yep. I have been saying this since the summer. Most QBs are "better" in rhythm. It is just with Allen the difference is so stark. I think the Bills are still working out what the ideal "Josh Allen offense" looks like. 

 

In 2018 Josh was just out there playing in the offense. 

In 2019 Josh is leading the offense but it is still "the" offense and not "his" offense if that makes sense.

That hopefully is the next step. 

[Bangarang]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. I have been saying this since the summer. Most QBs are "better" in rhythm. It is just with Allen the difference is so stark. I think the Bills are still working out what the ideal "Josh Allen offense" looks like. 

 

In 2018 Josh was just out there playing in the offense. 

In 2019 Josh is leading the offense but it is still "the" offense and not "his" offense if that makes sense.

That hopefully is the next step. 

What are the odds Daboll is back next year? 

[DuckyBoys]

B  it wasnt pretty all the time. but they got the W  Prime time game in heinz field with playoffs on the line  He made the plays when they needed them 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Let me get this straight: you're upset that he's last in TTT, and so your solution to the problem is for him to...scramble around?

 

Why. Do. You. Think. He's. Last. In. TTT.

 

???

 

Also, do you suppose that he holds the ball longer because the Bills WRs are woeful at creating separation?

 

When they run quick passing based plays he delivers with no trouble at all. In fact that's when he's at his best.

 

And by the way, per Next Gen, he's not "DFL". He's at 2.87 seconds on average. Guys that take longer include Dak, Rodgers, Lamar, and Kirk Cousins.

 

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing

I’d wager that he misunderstand what TTT is.  (It’s time from snap to release for those who don’t know.  Sacks and runs are not included.)  Lower is usually considered better, but QBs that buy more time with their feet usually are on the higher side.  It’s really a meaningless statistic for QBs like Rodgers, Allen and Lamar.  It only holds value for QBs in schemes where the ball must come out quickly.  Even then that value is limited. 

[Magox]

22 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Play for shootouts? 

 

No. But hell, how bout a little confidence in your offense and QB with plenty of time and all 3 TOs? They basically forfeited on offense with 8 minutes to go in the game.... McDermotts offensive philosophy seems to be play offense only when it’s absolutely necessary. 

You are a real piece of work.

 

you pine for the crappy days of Sammy Watkins, Tyrod and Whaley who never did anything and here we are with indisputably the best coach and front office in decades who is on pace to have its first 11+ win season since the great old days coming off a big victory at Pittsburgh clinching a playoff spot and here you are biching about the same old crap.

 

pathetic