New NFL Trend - Adding QB Rushing and Passing TD’s together?

[Kirby Jackson]

2 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Reading several articles today and some reporters are saying that Lamar Jackson has 40 TD’s And 6 INT this season so far.  I knew that this didn’t sound quite right, so I looked at they were adding his rushing TD’s to his passing TD’s.  I saw this done by a few reporters.

So considering that QB’s are scoring more TD’s on the ground, is this going to be a new thing?

 

Ironically, I’ve seen very few people credit Josh Allen with 25 TD’s and 8 INT’s. 

This only makes sense and should have been done a while ago. The one thing that I’d do is add fumbles lost to INTs too. That really tells a better story. “How many scoring plays is a QB responsible for vs. turnovers?”

[BADOLBILZ]

23 minutes ago, GG said:

Hyperbole is your continued twisting of the narrative when it comes to Tyrod, such as his benching  by 2 coaches in Buffalo and a very quick yank in Cleveland.   

 

His limitations as a QB were plainly evident, and that's why there was always a short hook. 

 

Just that you have to dig up the sole Miami game as evidence of the defense blowing his comeback bid, but ignoring other 1 score games where he came up woefully short is emblematic of his stature as a front running QB.   Once the defenses got tape on him, he was easy to defend.  

 

The only reason Allen gets a pass is that he was known to be a project and has been improving, while Tyrod never got better after his first year in Buffalo, and was regressing.  

 

So yeah, Allen benefits from having a great defense to back him (which I recall you never thought that McDermott could field), Tyrod had a worse time facing top defenses as well. 

 

 

Only in retrospect were Tyrod's limitations "plainly evident/unfixable"....the same as EVERY project QB's limitations are plainly evident, in retrospect.

 

In retrospect if Allen fails people are going to say it was "plainly evident" in 2019 that he was woefully inaccurate on deep balls, showing an astonishing lack of any touch and that he panicked under pressure abandoning the pocket for no reason and seeing ghosts like his buddy Sam Darnold instead of wide open receivers etc..

 

But he hasn't been deemed a failure yet so it's just......ya' know......."plainly happening" over and over and assumed fixable instead of "plainly evident/unfixable".

 

And btw.......Tyrod did improve in year 2..........in the same ways that Allen has...........he got better at playing a short passing, conservative game in a 2016 season where his WR corps was a mess he guided the offense to better production.

Edited December 14, 2019 by BADOLBILZ

[Starr Almighty]

1 hour ago, whorlnut said:

How many games did Tyrod Taylor win when he was down in the fourth quarter?  I’ll wait...

How many times did Tyrod Taylor comeback In a game after being 10 points down? I'll wait with you ?

[Putin]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Not many but that Bills team had the 26th ranked defense in DVOA.    

 

Still alive for the playoffs Taylor lead the Bills to a team record offensive yardage performance and a last minute TD to take the lead against the Dolphins in Rex last game.     The Bills D promptly gave up quick big plays and a game tying FG for Miami as time expired.    Tyrod then lead the Bills to a chip shot FG in OT to win it.   Carpenter missed.   Defense promptly gave up a winning score on the next drive.   The next week TYROD got benched.

 

I'm a big Josh Allen fan but if he had the 26th ranked defense opposite him then I am afraid he could be a developmental mess at this point.   It helps to have one of the 2-3 best defenses in football across from you so that you can be driving to win a game late at home when you've only put up 10-17 points thru the first 56 minutes of the game.

The best thing that happened to us having Tyrod is that we got a 3rd round pick for him , 

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by Putin

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, Putin said:

The best thing that happened to us having Tyrod is that we got a 3rd round pick for him , 

 

 

 

No the best thing was having an offense lead the entire NFL in big plays AND rushing in back-to-back seasons.    The third round pick didn't even become a player it just became a sweetener in one of their famous and controversial trade ups. 

 

 

[Nelius]

I like it, points are points. Was just mentioning how people seem to overlook this with Allen earlier and I'm not really understanding the disconnect. The fact that Allen has 25 TDs so far is awesome production, there shouldn't be asterisk associated with 8 Tds because they came on the ground. I do also agree with the argument that they should include fumbles lost as well to balance things out.

[Kirby Jackson]

9 minutes ago, Putin said:

The best thing that happened to us having Tyrod is that we got a 3rd round pick for him , 

 

I disagree. The best thing was ending the longest active playoff drought in all of sports.

[GG]

9 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Only in retrospect were Tyrod's limitations "plainly evident/unfixable"....the same as EVERY project QB's limitations are plainly evident, in retrospect.

 

In retrospect if Allen fails people are going to say it was "plainly evident" in 2019 that he was woefully inaccurate on deep balls, showing an astonishing lack of any touch and that he panicked under pressure abandoning the pocket for no reason and seeing ghosts like his buddy Sam Darnold instead of wide open receivers etc..

 

But he hasn't been deemed a failure yet so it's just......ya' know......."plainly happening" over and over and assumed fixable instead of "plainly evident/unfixable".

 

And btw.......Tyrod did improve in year 2..........in the same ways that Allen has...........he got better at playing a short passing, conservative game in a 2016 season where his WR corps was a mess he guided the offense to better production.

 Tyrod’s limitations were plainly evident at the time, as are Allen’s limitations are plainly evident at this time.   No need for hindsight analysis.

 

You’re revising history by saying that Tyrod’s game got better.  Must be nice to ignore the start of the ‘16 season, where both opponents clearly said that their game plan was to have Tyrod play like a quarterback, and he failed.  The blueprint was there for any team willing to make him a QB.   Tyrod’s farewell was sealed with a pathetic 3 point outing in the biggest game in 20 years.  That’s why he barely lasted 4 games in Cleveland.

 

If your point is that Allen gets the benefit of the doubt, while Tyrod didn’t, it’s because we’re talking about a guy who was in his 8th year, not a project in his second.  Let’s see the support that Allen gets if he still can’t beat a blitzing defense by mid next year.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I disagree. The best thing was ending the longest active playoff drought in all of sports.

 

 

That too.

 

Dominating New England in Foxboro was nice too.

 

 

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, Johnnycage46 said:

Makes sense.  TDs are TDs.  If a QB puts up 40 TDs that is a very good/great season regardless of whether it was passing or running.

As with any stat, whether the data is meaningful depends hugely on what question you are trying to answer. 

 

 

[Nelius]

Somebody posted it here a couple weeks ago and I unfortunately can't find it so all credit to them,  but Josh Allen has/had an outside shot at setting the record for most total TDs in a season for a Bills QB. I think it might be 34 for Kelly in '91? He had a better chance before last week obviously when this was originally discussed, but that's a pretty amazing stat for his second year.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Nelius

[BADOLBILZ]

14 minutes ago, GG said:

 Tyrod’s limitations were plainly evident at the time, as are Allen’s limitations are plainly evident at this time.   No need for hindsight analysis.

 

You’re revising history by saying that Tyrod’s game got better.  Must be nice to ignore the start of the ‘16 season, where both opponents clearly said that their game plan was to have Tyrod play like a quarterback, and he failed.  The blueprint was there for any team willing to make him a QB.   Tyrod’s farewell was sealed with a pathetic 3 point outing in the biggest game in 20 years.  That’s why he barely lasted 4 games in Cleveland.

 

If your point is that Allen gets the benefit of the doubt, while Tyrod didn’t, it’s because we’re talking about a guy who was in his 8th year, not a project in his second.  Let’s see the support that Allen gets if he still can’t beat a blitzing defense by mid next year.

 

 

 

So when the 2016 team was leading the league in big plays and rushing and scoring a lot and not turning the ball over it was just because opponents were eschewing use of the "blueprint"??

 

Everybody had a plan until they got punched in the mouth.

 

Unfortunately the Bills defense had a plexiglass jaw and couldn't hold up their end of the bargain so an offense that scored and didn't beat itself with mistakes wasn't good enough to make the team better than .500.

 

BTW the blueprint to beat Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson is also to make them stay in the pocket and make the throws they aren't efficient at.  

 

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by BADOLBILZ

[NoSaint]

26 minutes ago, Nelius said:

I like it, points are points. Was just mentioning how people seem to overlook this with Allen earlier and I'm not really understanding the disconnect. The fact that Allen has 25 TDs so far is awesome production, there shouldn't be asterisk associated with 8 Tds because they came on the ground. I do also agree with the argument that they should include fumbles lost as well to balance things out.

It’s fair to look at numbers deeper. 
 

25 Tds is good.

 

but Tom Brady’s rushing touchdowns are a lot easier to replace than Lamar Jackson’s I would bet. Or similarly finding a guy to Chuck 30+ a year to pair with a good back putting in 5-10 more is better than a 20-10 qb if you are just vulturing all the RB goal line production 

17 minutes ago, Nelius said:

Somebody posted it here a couple weeks ago and I unfortunately can't find it so all credit to them,  but Josh Allen has/had an outside shot at setting the record for most total TDs in a season for a Bills QB. I think it might be 34 for Kelly in '91? He had a better chance before last week obviously when this was originally discussed, but that's a pretty amazing stat for his second year.

sadly, the amazing part is no one else has the last 20 years. It’s not a huge bar to clear.

Edited December 14, 2019 by NoSaint

[GG]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

So when the 2016 team was leading the league in big plays and rushing and scoring a lot and not turning the ball over it was just because opponents were eschewing use of the "blueprint"??

 

Everybody had a plan until they got punched in the mouth.

 

Unfortunately the Bills defense had a plexiglass jaw and couldn't hold up their end of the bargain so an offense that scored and didn't beat itself with mistakes wasn't good enough to make the team better than .500.

 

BTW the blueprint to beat Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson is also to make them stay in the pocket and make the throws they aren't efficient at.  

 

 

 

The 2016 schedule against a weak NFC West didn’t hurt his offensive production.  

 

Funny though how several coaches whose livelihoods depend on quality QB play all decided that the most dynamic playmaking QB wasn’t good enough to be a starter.  

[Nelius]

23 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

It’s fair to look at numbers deeper. 
 

 

Of course, it's also fair to strip things down a bit and focus on what matters - wins, and points. I totally agree, we're just circling each other, but 25 TDs is production. I really don't understand why people discount rushing TDs. If Josh goes 3-27 passing but runs for 180 yards and 3 TDs in a playoff game that we win, we still win.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Nelius

[NoSaint]

11 minutes ago, Nelius said:

 

Of course, it's also fair to strip things down a bit and focus on what matters - wins, and points. I totally agree, we're just circling each other, but 25 TDs is production. I really don't understand why people discount rushing TDs. If Josh goes 3-27 passing but runs for 180 yards and 3 TDs in a playoff game that we win, we still win.

Heck, if he does it in the super bowl I’ll start the gofundme for his statue, but also the thread about qb prospects in the draft. 
 

40 total tds with a few weeks left is great any way you slice it. He’s accounting for more points Himself than some teams total.

 

17-8 can be a bit more ambiguous but generally trends positive 

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by NoSaint

[Nelius]

14 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Heck, if he does it in the super bowl I’ll start the gofundme for his statue, but also the thread about qb prospects in the draft. 

 

Ha yeah that was an awful example. I'm clearly more interested in these Melvin IPAs than Josh Allen's awesome ability to find the endzone right now, but I think we've got a good one. 

[BADOLBILZ]

51 minutes ago, GG said:

 

 

Funny though how several coaches whose livelihoods depend on quality QB play all decided that the most dynamic playmaking QB wasn’t good enough to be a starter.  

 

 

Not really.

 

31 teams passed on Lamar Jackson.

 

Jackson was great in college.........NFL coaches whose livelihoods depended on quality QB play feared having to go out of their comfort zone to run an offense that would take advantage of the strengths of Lamar Jackson.

 

So hardly surprising that coaches passed on a lesser passing and lesser running and older QB who needs to be schemed effective.

Edited December 14, 2019 by BADOLBILZ

[NoHuddleKelly12]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Back when Roman and later Lynn with Roman's playbook were here and the Bills offense was trampling teams on the ground Tyrod Taylor put up 24 TD and 6 int and 23 TD and 6 int.    But we grossly underrated our own offense because we were consumed with passer efficiency and not having 300 yard games.    Now Josh Allen does similar stuff in a less effective offense(but opposite a good defense) and people want credit given where it's due.

Bilz, I knew Tyrod. I served as a Bills fan during his tenure, and my good sir, Tyrod Taylor is no Josh Allen.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Bilz, I knew Tyrod. I served as a Bills fan during his tenure, and my good sir, Tyrod Taylor is no Josh Allen.

 

 

 

A lot of people served as Bills fans during his tenure and yet remember the Bills offense as anemic because Tyrod couldn't throw for 300 yards.

 

That 2015-2016 offense was leaps and bounds better than this one and the organization's best and most consistent offense since the SB years.

 

Put that Tyrod lead offense with this current Bills defense against the dogass schedule the Bills played thru 13 games and the Bills would be the #1 seed and the Ravens would have just been beaten in Buffalo this past Sunday.

 

I am a big Allen fan and he has more physical talent than Tyrod but that doesn't change the fact that this offense has been garbage for most of the season and we've unbelievably reached the point where the Bills have the QB with probably the strongest arm in the league and teams are daring him to throw the ball over the top because he's hitting hospitality tents with his awful deep throws like EJ Manuel on roids.?    This week Allen left 3 easy TD's on the field with throws because he just didn't have even NFL journeyman level touch/timing to make.  I would hope that he fixes that problem in time but just like Tyrod with his struggles I can't unsee all those missed opportunities.