Move over, Brady. Phillips Rivers may actually be the GOAT.

[Dr.Sack]

Matt Ryan > Rivers

[Max Fischer]

I firmly believe Matt Stafford would have been an all-time great on a decent franchise. It seems the vast majority of his “poor” play comes from desperately keeping the Lions in the game. I never understood why he stayed. I really like Josh Allen but if Bills drafted Stafford in 2018, Stafford would be the Lamar Jackson of 2019. 

[H2o]

18 hours ago, Gordio said:

 

They should of never got rid of Brees.  They kept the wrong QB in hindsight.  

 

If they had kept Brees and drafted Larry Fitzgerald things would have been quite different around the league. 

[Mr. WEO]

He’s certainly a great choker.  
 

could never goal all the way even with loaded rosters both sides of the ball.  
 

Stat Padder Hall of Fame

[mannc]

10 hours ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

I agree that he disappoints more often than not.  He compiles a lot of stats in garbage time when throwing against prevent defenses.  As some posts have already pointed out, for a guy that seems to be held in relatively high regard, he does not have a track record of winning big games.  A good front office would have brought in someone to compete with Rivers to either improve him or replace him.  They haven't done that at least up to this point.  I expect that to change in order to shake things up and create some fan interest as they move into their new stadium.  Only the owner and Rivers have remained the same over the last several unsuccessful seasons.  I expect that to change in 2020.

Also overlooked is the fact that the Chargers have had an awful lot of talent—on offense and defense—in Rivers’s time there.  It’s not like he hasn’t had anything to work with.  He’s just massively overrated.  

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

He’s certainly a great choker.  
 

could never goal all the way even with loaded rosters both sides of the ball.  
 

Stat Padder Hall of Fame

Totally

[CorkScrewHill]

15 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

LOL. I generally have Manning at #3 but I can make a good argument P Manning isn't in the top 5. I would take the five listed below before Manning if I had to win one playoff game.  #6 would be a toss up between Marino and Manning.  Rounding out the top 10 would be Elway, Rodgers, and Staubach.

1. Brady

2. Montana

3. Brees

4. Favre

5. Young

Must disagree with your list .. if I had to take one QB for a single playoff game .. it must be

1) Brady

2) Montana

3) Mr . Playoffs Rob Johnson

 

i remember the 99 playoff game and he was ... oh nevermind

[MJS]

I think it's the other way around. Mediocre coaches have been propped up by Rivers. Anthony Lynn will never be a head coach again and he never should have in the first place. He was a running backs coach who was thrust into an interim HC position with the Bills. Less than a year of HC experience and none as a coordinator at the NFL level. But he doesn't have to do much because the team rises and falls at the whim of Rivers' play.

 

Rivers has never been the best QB in the NFL, but he's always been top 10 and occasionally gets into the top 5. He's a very good QB, he's just not a championship caliber QB. His teams do choke, partly because they don't have a foundation of good coaching, and partly because Rivers makes poor decisions in those clutch moments. But I'd have to think that if you paired Rivers with an ACTUAL good coach (one that could reign him in in those clutch situations and get the most out of his abilities), he'd have a ring or two by now.

[MJS]

15 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

LOL. I generally have Manning at #3 but I can make a good argument P Manning isn't in the top 5. I would take the five listed below before Manning if I had to win one playoff game.  #6 would be a toss up between Marino and Manning.  Rounding out the top 10 would be Elway, Rodgers, and Staubach.

1. Brady

2. Montana

3. Brees

4. Favre

5. Young

I think Marino is a little overrated. He never won when it counted, similar to Rivers actually. Yes he put up lots of yards, but he also put up lots of INT's. Threw a pretty ball, though. I mean, Jim Kelly has an excellent playoff win percentage. I'd take him in a playoff game over Marino.

[machine gun kelly]

18 hours ago, Gordio said:

 

They should of never got rid of Brees.  They kept the wrong QB in hindsight.  

 

 

 

As far as Marty, I’ve never seen such a bonehead move by Mgmt and ownership than to fire a 13-3 coach.  Norv was a big step backward.

[iinii]

Okay.....so TB12 is still the GOAT. 

[Gordio]

On 12/14/2019 at 10:37 AM, machine gun kelly said:

 

 

As far as Marty, I’ve never seen such a bonehead move by Mgmt and ownership than to fire a 13-3 coach.  Norv was a big step backward.

 

 

Marty was a complicated situation.  His winning % was great, his teams came up small in the biggest games.  I think management got tired of him & his conservative coaching style.

[Gordio]

On 12/13/2019 at 4:08 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Brees had a really bad shoulder injury at the time. It’s why Miami didn’t sign him. 
 

and I used to feel bad for him but this clip makes him like a giant d bag.  Dude helps him up and he screams in his ear. He should laid him out. 
 

https://mobile.twitter.com/NFL_Memes/status/1204392912659857409?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-26699525554090590446.ampproject.net%2F1911191835190%2Fframe.html

 

 

Yes, the AFC East has dodged a bullet there.  Miami being Miami couldn't get past the shoulder injury & signed Culpepper instead.  Imagine going against Brady & Brees 4 times a year.  

 

I always liked Brees but I am point where I wish the dude would just hang it up.  I am sick of watching him.  The Saints will make a big time mistake next year if they don't decide to part ways with brees & try to resign Bridgewater.  

Edited December 16, 2019 by Gordio

[SoTier]

On 12/14/2019 at 10:29 AM, MJS said:

I think it's the other way around. Mediocre coaches have been propped up by Rivers. Anthony Lynn will never be a head coach again and he never should have in the first place. He was a running backs coach who was thrust into an interim HC position with the Bills. Less than a year of HC experience and none as a coordinator at the NFL level. But he doesn't have to do much because the team rises and falls at the whim of Rivers' play.

 

Rivers has never been the best QB in the NFL, but he's always been top 10 and occasionally gets into the top 5. He's a very good QB, he's just not a championship caliber QB. His teams do choke, partly because they don't have a foundation of good coaching, and partly because Rivers makes poor decisions in those clutch moments. But I'd have to think that if you paired Rivers with an ACTUAL good coach (one that could reign him in in those clutch situations and get the most out of his abilities), he'd have a ring or two by now.

 

Excellent take.  I think this may be the real issue with Rivers.  He likely needed a "QB whisperer" coach like Reid or Payton or Reich, which he's never had. 

 

Rivers is the perfect example of how a QB's tendency to make poor decisions can impact team success even when a team has a load of talent and even when the QB has all the physical talent that a great QB needs.

 

On 12/14/2019 at 10:36 AM, MJS said:

I think Marino is a little overrated. He never won when it counted, similar to Rivers actually. Yes he put up lots of yards, but he also put up lots of INT's. Threw a pretty ball, though. I mean, Jim Kelly has an excellent playoff win percentage. I'd take him in a playoff game over Marino.

 

I think Marino's success was compromised because Shula essentially abandoned the run game and totally relied on Marino's passing. 

 

 

 

 

[SoTier]

16 minutes ago, Gordio said:

 

 

Yes, the AFC East has dodged a bullet there.  Miami being Miami couldn't get past the shoulder injury & signed Culpepper instead.  Imagine going against Brady & Brees 4 times a year.  

 

I always liked Brees but I am point where I wish the dude would just hang it up.  I am sick of watching him.  The Saints will make a big time mistake next year if they don't decide to part ways with brees & try to resign Bridgewater.  

 

Culpepper was coming off a devastating knee injury and wasn't fully healed even in TC.   That the Vikings went with Brad Johnson over Culpepper should have been a red flag ...

[Gordio]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Culpepper was coming off a devastating knee injury and wasn't fully healed even in TC.   That the Vikings went with Brad Johnson over Culpepper should have been a red flag ...

 

 

yeah I never quite understood that decision by Miami.  Culpepper was a shell of his former self when he got there.  

[hondo in seattle]

On 12/13/2019 at 12:45 PM, Rc2catch said:

That’s kind of hard to say. Would Brees of had the same success without Sean Payton? 
His San Diego numbers do not look MVP like at all. He had one good season there and by his New Orleans standard that one good San Diego season was trash. 

 

There's no doubt that Payton has been part of Brees success.  Then again, that's true  of any great QB.  They all have mentors and coaches who help them along the way.  

 

 I also think his own talents had a lot to do with Drew's 29 of 30 performance this week and all his statistical achievements over the years.  Everyone defers to Brady as the GOAT but I think Brees is in the conversation.

 

Being a Boilermaker, I've followed his career with some interest.  He clearly grew his first few years and finally achieved his first 100+ passer rating only in his fourth year with the Chargers - before working with Payton btw.    I'd like to believe Josh Allen will have the same  kind of trajectory.  Some QBs continue to learn and grow once they reach the NFL and don't reach their potential until their 3rd or 4th season.  Or in Jim Plunkett's case, his 12th!   I think Allen's best is yet to come.

 

And since this is a Rivers thread, let me add Rivers is clearly a good QB who hasn't always been surrounded by the best players and coaches.  He reminds me a little of Archie Manning in that respect - a talented guy who was underrated because of shortcomings in the surrounding cast.  

 

 

[dave mcbride]

On 12/13/2019 at 3:48 PM, Gordio said:

 

 

Agreed, that is why I said in hindsight.  The smart play was to keep Rivers, no doubt about it.  Looking back at both careers, I would of rather built my team around Brees.  Rivers always struck me as a guy that puts up great stats but comes up small in big games.  I think his playoff record justifies that comment.  Also a few years San Diego was loaded, had home field advantage & would get upset at home in the playoffs.  The jets game comes to mind when they upset them at Qualcom

If you’re going to talk about SD playoff failures and not bring up Marlon McCree, You’re leaving a crucial event out. The Chargers were the best team in football in 2006, and if not for one of the stupidest decisions by a defender ever, I believe they would have won the SB. Rivers had nothing to do with that.

[Fan in San Diego]

On 12/13/2019 at 12:38 PM, Gordio said:

 

They should of never got rid of Brees.  They kept the wrong QB in hindsight.  

 

I was thinking the same thing watching Brees last night.

[Gordio]

On 12/17/2019 at 3:23 PM, dave mcbride said:

If you’re going to talk about SD playoff failures and not bring up Marlon McCree, You’re leaving a crucial event out. The Chargers were the best team in football in 2006, and if not for one of the stupidest decisions by a defender ever, I believe they would have won the SB. Rivers had nothing to do with that.

 

 

Excellent point.  There has been a lot of past failures for SD during Rivers tenure there.  Some of them were his fault, some not so much.  It is what it is at this point but some of those teams were flat out loaded & should of got to at least one or two Super Bowls.  

[without a drought]

I thought GOAT stood for something else.