Move over, Brady. Phillips Rivers may actually be the GOAT.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

2 hours ago, Gordio said:

 

They should of never got rid of Brees.  They kept the wrong QB in hindsight.  

 

 

Brees in San Diego was not the Brees in New Orleans, hence the decision to draft Eli Manning #1 (trade for Rivers).  It wasn't until Rivers came in, that Brees started to play better keeping Rivers on the bench for two-years.  Then, that last game of the 2005 season against Denver, Brees got sacked and blew out his throwing shoulder.  San Diego had to make a choice - keep Brees and trade Rivers and hope Brees' can come back from his injury (some thought he may not play again); or keep Rivers and let Brees walk due to injury.  Tough decision but hard to fault the Chargers at the time.  That said, though Rivers sat for two-years behind Brees, he has passed both Big Ben and Eli in most passing statistical categories except one - winning (or playing) in the Super Bowl.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, peterpan said:

P Manning is the goat and it's really not close.   Brew Brees is second in line.  

LOL. I generally have Manning at #3 but I can make a good argument P Manning isn't in the top 5. I would take the five listed below before Manning if I had to win one playoff game.  #6 would be a toss up between Marino and Manning.  Rounding out the top 10 would be Elway, Rodgers, and Staubach.

1. Brady

2. Montana

3. Brees

4. Favre

5. Young

[row_33]

Rivers won sweet ***** all

 

he doesn't rate at all

 

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, Gordio said:

 

 

Agreed, that is why I said in hindsight.  The smart play was to keep Rivers, no doubt about it.  Looking back at both careers, I would of rather built my team around Brees.  Rivers always struck me as a guy that puts up great stats but comes up small in big games.  I think his playoff record justifies that comment.  Also a few years San Diego was loaded, had home field advantage & would get upset at home in the playoffs.  The jets game comes to mind when they upset them at Qualcom

 

This is how I view Rivers, too, and why I view him as a "coach killer".   In his early years, the Chargers were loaded with talent.  Schottenheimer was fired after the 2006 season, after the Chargers went 14-2 in the regular season but went one and done in the divisional round against NE after Rivers went 14 for 32 for 230 yards, 0 Tds, 1 INT, and Pro Bowl K Nate Kaeding missed a 54 yard FG at the end of the game.

 

2 hours ago, I am the egg man said:

He's a whiner, but will probably get in the HOF 1st time round.

 

His side arm delivery looked weird, but he was effective.

 

Him in the debate of being the GOAT - that is just silly talk.

 

GOAT of Coach Killing QBs. Brady -- and Peyton -- aren't in that conversation  at all.

 

1 hour ago, ColinM22 said:

Reminds me of Stafford. “Franchise QB” that just can’t get it done. Too many coaching changes will neuter a QB and I think that’s the biggest contributor to these two QBs lack of playoff success. But that aside, something seems to be missing. The ability to control a game and make up for their teams downfalls. Great QBs should be making their teammates around them better. I never get the feeling (besides maybe some games early in their careers) that these two QBs take over games and put the team on their back.

 

That being said, feel lucky that the Bills have Coach/GM in place to give Allen the best chance to succeed for hopefully many years to come!

 

Go Bills

 

Stafford has never had a truly great team around him.  Rivers did early in his career.  The Chargers went to the playoffs 4 straight times between 2006 and 2009,  including a 14 win season in 2006 and a 13 win season in 2009.

Edited December 13, 2019 by SoTier

[HOUSE]

California earthquakes ruined his career

[LB48]

2 hours ago, TheBrownBear said:

I've lived in San Diego for the majority of his career and I think he's one of the most overrated QBs of all-time.  People here seem to love him, but I think it's more about his personality and toughness than his actual play.  He had a couple of truly great years early in his career, but since then he's been insanely unclutch and always seems to come up with a boneheaded turnover at the most inopportune times.  He's a yardage compiler and does not belong in the HOF imo.

Agreed.  He is NOT clutch in big or close game situations.  Always dumb interceptions at the end of a game.

[peterpan]

58 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

LOL. I generally have Manning at #3 but I can make a good argument P Manning isn't in the top 5. I would take the five listed below before Manning if I had to win one playoff game.  #6 would be a toss up between Marino and Manning.  Rounding out the top 10 would be Elway, Rodgers, and Staubach.

1. Brady

2. Montana

3. Brees

4. Favre

5. Young

A proven cheater is your number one????

 

Watch  Brees.  He makes plays you'll never see Brady make.  

[CorkScrewHill]

2 hours ago, prissythecat said:

 

Dallas won 3 Superbowls with Jerry Jones as owner and GM?   

Actually during the building of the Cowboys including the first 2 Super Bowls Jimmy Johnson has all decision making powers (draft, contracts, etc.) Jerry as GM had one .. and that was with the personnel Jimmy Johnson had brought to Dallas. 
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jimmy-johnson-calls-out-jerry-jones-on-gm-claims-during-super-bowl-runs/

 

[Nick the Greek]

Rivers is trash. Is this thread a joke? 
 

see the playoffs last season. Brady let us all know who runs the AFC. And it isn’t close. 

[Buftex]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

LOL. I generally have Manning at #3 but I can make a good argument P Manning isn't in the top 5. I would take the five listed below before Manning if I had to win one playoff game.  #6 would be a toss up between Marino and Manning.  Rounding out the top 10 would be Elway, Rodgers, and Staubach.

1. Brady

2. Montana

3. Brees

4. Favre

5. Young

Personally, though I loved watching him play , you gotta swap out Favre for Elway.

[Freddie's Dead]

I think Cordys Glenn could also be the GOAT.

[T master]

When you think of the GOAT IMHO you automatically think of championships & although i wouldn't take any thing away from Rivers the dude is a HOFer beyond a shadow of a doubt but Brady has the Silver trophies to put him over the top in this discussion .

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

5 hours ago, TheBrownBear said:

I've lived in San Diego for the majority of his career and I think he's one of the most overrated QBs of all-time.  People here seem to love him, but I think it's more about his personality and toughness than his actual play.  He had a couple of truly great years early in his career, but since then he's been insanely unclutch and always seems to come up with a boneheaded turnover at the most inopportune times.  He's a yardage compiler and does not belong in the HOF imo.

I agree that he disappoints more often than not.  He compiles a lot of stats in garbage time when throwing against prevent defenses.  As some posts have already pointed out, for a guy that seems to be held in relatively high regard, he does not have a track record of winning big games.  A good front office would have brought in someone to compete with Rivers to either improve him or replace him.  They haven't done that at least up to this point.  I expect that to change in order to shake things up and create some fan interest as they move into their new stadium.  Only the owner and Rivers have remained the same over the last several unsuccessful seasons.  I expect that to change in 2020.

[ToGoGo]

I think Rivers is Brady's ceiling without cheating. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

7 hours ago, SoTier said:

This was originally posted in the thread on 2019 HCs likely to get axed:

 

 

It got me to thinking about how Phillip Rivers continually puts up big stats -- and that he's frequently mentioned as a likely future HOFer -- but his teams seems to always disappoint. In his 14 seasons as a starter, Rivers has quarterbacked the Chargers to only 6 playoff appearances and only 5 playoff wins in 11 games.   In those 11 playoff games, Rivers threw 14 TDs and 10 INTs.  Rivers led only 1 4th quarter comeback and 1 game winning drive in the playoffs.  Even when the Chargers have been loaded with talent as they were early in Rivers' career, they failed to live up to expectations by going 1 and done after going 14-2 in the regular season or barely making the playoffs at 8-8 despite Rivers leading the league in TDs (34) and QB rating. 

 

Rivers has also led the NFL in INTs twice -- 18 in 2014 (31 TDs) with the Chargers going 9-7 (made playoffs) and 21 in 2016 (33 TDs) with the Chargers going 5-11. Plus, Rivers threw 21 TDs and 15 INTs with Chargers winning 11 games (made playoffs) in 2007; 27 TDs and 20 INTs in 2011 with the Chargers winning 8 games; and 26 TDs and 15 INTs in 2012 with the Chargers winning 7 games.

 

There have always seemed to be excuses for Rivers like a rash of injuries to key players or never having good crowd support because so many opponents' fans filled their temp home in Carson. AFAIK, there's never really been any serious thought among the Chargers FO to move on from him until this year.  Rivers has outlasted three HCs -- Marty Schottenheimer, Norv Turner, Mike McCoy -- and Anthony Lynn may be the latest victim of Rivers' special ability to come up short when he needs to whether in the regular or post season.  Under Lynn, Rivers seemed to have found new life as a QB, but it seems he's relapsed into his old ways:  so far this season, Rivers has thrown 20 TDs and 15 TDs and the Chargers have won 5 of 13 games and are again out of the playoffs.   They have lost all of their 8 games by 1 TD or less IIRC.

 

Generally, the idea of a QB who's a "coach killer" is the mediocre guy who's just good enough for the HC to keep thinking that his QB can actually impove "with one more piece" whatever that might be.  Rivers, though, has seemed to look good throughout his career -- except, of course, when he really needed to step up and throw a pass to one of his own teammates to win or set up the win.  He may be the GOAT of coach killer QBs.

Drew Brees says hello...

[Bing Bong]

5 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

This is how I view Rivers, too, and why I view him as a "coach killer".   In his early years, the Chargers were loaded with talent.  Schottenheimer was fired after the 2006 season, after the Chargers went 14-2 in the regular season but went one and done in the divisional round against NE after Rivers went 14 for 32 for 230 yards, 0 Tds, 1 INT, and Pro Bowl K Nate Kaeding missed a 54 yard FG at the end of the game.

 

 

GOAT of Coach Killing QBs. Brady -- and Peyton -- aren't in that conversation  at all.

 

 

Stafford has never had a truly great team around him.  Rivers did early in his career.  The Chargers went to the playoffs 4 straight times between 2006 and 2009,  including a 14 win season in 2006 and a 13 win season in 2009.

Yep. Stacked Chargers teams. And I hate hearing that Marty Schottenheimer wasn't a good coach either. Owner moved from a coach that didn't win in the playoffs to a coach that flat out never won.

 

I do give Rivers credit for his ultra competitiveness though. Not many other QBs match him in that regard.

Edited December 14, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, Nick the Greek said:

Rivers is trash. Is this thread a joke? 
 

see the playoffs last season. Brady let us all know who runs the AFC. And it isn’t close. 

 

2 hours ago, T master said:

When you think of the GOAT IMHO you automatically think of championships & although i wouldn't take any thing away from Rivers the dude is a HOFer beyond a shadow of a doubt but Brady has the Silver trophies to put him over the top in this discussion .

 

Guys... I said that Rivers was the GOAT of coacher killer QBs, so yeah, the thread title is sort of a joke.  Great QBs are expected to have success in critical situations, but Rivers has long been regarded as "great" by many even though he's largely been unsuccessful in critical situations, whether in key regular season games or in the playoffs.

[Utah John]

7 hours ago, peterpan said:

P Manning is the goat and it's really not close.   Brew Brees is second in line.  

Manning held on for one last SB and he got it, but he was a shell of his former self.  Younger fans compared the end of the road Manning to the Brady of that same year, and of course Brady was better -- THAT YEAR.  Manning was an amazing QB, as a passer, a leader, a tough player.  To me, there's never been a better QB.

 

Brees second?  Maaaaayyyybe.  I think Montana was better than Brees.  Hard to compare, different eras.

[Madmax09]

No super bowls !!! 

[BillsFan692]

The title of this thread.... ugh. 

Mods fix please, should read "WOAT" not "GOAT" =P

Edited December 14, 2019 by BillsFan692