Move over, Brady. Phillips Rivers may actually be the GOAT.

[SoTier]

This was originally posted in the thread on 2019 HCs likely to get axed:

20 hours ago, Like A Mofo said:

Might not be fair but i can see this one:

 

Anthony Lynn Chargers:

It got me to thinking about how Phillip Rivers continually puts up big stats -- and that he's frequently mentioned as a likely future HOFer -- but his teams seems to always disappoint. In his 14 seasons as a starter, Rivers has quarterbacked the Chargers to only 6 playoff appearances and only 5 playoff wins in 11 games.   In those 11 playoff games, Rivers threw 14 TDs and 10 INTs.  Rivers led only 1 4th quarter comeback and 1 game winning drive in the playoffs.  Even when the Chargers have been loaded with talent as they were early in Rivers' career, they failed to live up to expectations by going 1 and done after going 14-2 in the regular season or barely making the playoffs at 8-8 despite Rivers leading the league in TDs (34) and QB rating. 

 

Rivers has also led the NFL in INTs twice -- 18 in 2014 (31 TDs) with the Chargers going 9-7 (made playoffs) and 21 in 2016 (33 TDs) with the Chargers going 5-11. Plus, Rivers threw 21 TDs and 15 INTs with Chargers winning 11 games (made playoffs) in 2007; 27 TDs and 20 INTs in 2011 with the Chargers winning 8 games; and 26 TDs and 15 INTs in 2012 with the Chargers winning 7 games.

 

There have always seemed to be excuses for Rivers like a rash of injuries to key players or never having good crowd support because so many opponents' fans filled their temp home in Carson. AFAIK, there's never really been any serious thought among the Chargers FO to move on from him until this year.  Rivers has outlasted three HCs -- Marty Schottenheimer, Norv Turner, Mike McCoy -- and Anthony Lynn may be the latest victim of Rivers' special ability to come up short when he needs to whether in the regular or post season.  Under Lynn, Rivers seemed to have found new life as a QB, but it seems he's relapsed into his old ways:  so far this season, Rivers has thrown 20 TDs and 15 TDs and the Chargers have won 5 of 13 games and are again out of the playoffs.   They have lost all of their 8 games by 1 TD or less IIRC.

 

Generally, the idea of a QB who's a "coach killer" is the mediocre guy who's just good enough for the HC to keep thinking that his QB can actually impove "with one more piece" whatever that might be.  Rivers, though, has seemed to look good throughout his career -- except, of course, when he really needed to step up and throw a pass to one of his own teammates to win or set up the win.  He may be the GOAT of coach killer QBs.

[cDAVIS]

I think he has had a stellar career in a league with 4 or 5 of the best QBs of all time. I don't think he's a coach killer at all. They never should have gotten rid of Marty. Rivers is one of the greats that has stood the test of time, and it looks like it's finally catching up to him. If you can't win with a franchise QB then it's the coaches killing themselves. How amazing would Rivers have done on NE under that system? I bet they have just as many Superbowls, if not more.

Edited December 13, 2019 by cDAVIS

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

13 minutes ago, SoTier said:

This was originally posted in the thread on 2019 HCs likely to get axed:

 

 

It got me to thinking about how Phillip Rivers continually puts up big stats -- and that he's frequently mentioned as a likely future HOFer -- but his teams seems to always disappoint. In his 14 seasons as a starter, Rivers has quarterbacked the Chargers to only 6 playoff appearances and only 5 playoff wins in 11 games.   In those 11 playoff games, Rivers threw 14 TDs and 10 INTs.  Rivers led only 1 4th quarter comeback and 1 game winning drive in the playoffs.  Even when the Chargers have been loaded with talent as they were early in Rivers' career, they failed to live up to expectations by going 1 and done after going 14-2 in the regular season or barely making the playoffs at 8-8 despite Rivers leading the league in TDs (34) and QB rating. 

 

Rivers has also led the NFL in INTs twice -- 18 in 2014 (31 TDs) with the Chargers going 9-7 (made playoffs) and 21 in 2016 (33 TDs) with the Chargers going 5-11. Plus, Rivers threw 21 TDs and 15 INTs with Chargers winning 11 games (made playoffs) in 2007; 27 TDs and 20 INTs in 2011 with the Chargers winning 8 games; and 26 TDs and 15 INTs in 2012 with the Chargers winning 7 games.

 

There have always seemed to be excuses for Rivers like a rash of injuries to key players or never having good crowd support because so many opponents' fans filled their temp home in Carson. AFAIK, there's never really been any serious thought among the Chargers FO to move on from him until this year.  Rivers has outlasted three HCs -- Marty Schottenheimer, Norv Turner, Mike McCoy -- and Anthony Lynn may be the latest victim of Rivers' special ability to come up short when he needs to whether in the regular or post season.  Under Lynn, Rivers seemed to have found new life as a QB, but it seems he's relapsed into his old ways:  so far this season, Rivers has thrown 20 TDs and 15 TDs and the Chargers have won 5 of 13 games and are again out of the playoffs.   They have lost all of their 8 games by 1 TD or less IIRC.

 

Generally, the idea of a QB who's a "coach killer" is the mediocre guy who's just good enough for the HC to keep thinking that his QB can actually impove "with one more piece" whatever that might be.  Rivers, though, has seemed to look good throughout his career -- except, of course, when he really needed to step up and throw a pass to one of his own teammates to win or set up the win.  He may be the GOAT of coach killer QBs.

He's just had some really bad coaches.

[Gordio]

5 minutes ago, cDAVIS said:

I think he has had a stellar career in a league with 4 or 5 of the best QBs of all time. I don't think he's a coach killer at all. They never should have gotten rid of Marty. Rivers is one of the greats that has stood the test of time, and it looks like it's finally catching up to him. If you can't win with a franchise QB then it's the coaches killing themselves. How amazing would Rivers have done on NE under that system? I bet they have just as many Superbowls, if not more.

 

They should of never got rid of Brees.  They kept the wrong QB in hindsight.  

 

[Rc2catch]

4 minutes ago, Gordio said:

 

They should of never got rid of Brees.  They kept the wrong QB in hindsight.  

 

That’s kind of hard to say. Would Brees of had the same success without Sean Payton? 
His San Diego numbers do not look MVP like at all. He had one good season there and by his New Orleans standard that one good San Diego season was trash. 

[Gordio]

Just now, Rc2catch said:

That’s kind of hard to say. Would Brees of had the same success without Sean Payton? 
His San Diego numbers do not look MVP like at all. He had one good season there and by his New Orleans standard that one good San Diego season was trash. 

 

 

Agreed, that is why I said in hindsight.  The smart play was to keep Rivers, no doubt about it.  Looking back at both careers, I would of rather built my team around Brees.  Rivers always struck me as a guy that puts up great stats but comes up small in big games.  I think his playoff record justifies that comment.  Also a few years San Diego was loaded, had home field advantage & would get upset at home in the playoffs.  The jets game comes to mind when they upset them at Qualcom

[Like A Mofo]

In the NFL you need 4 things to be great:

 

Ownership

 

Coach

 

GM

 

QB

 

In San Diego and now LA, its clear the 1st one (Spanos) is horrendous, one of the worst owners in the sport hands down. Coaching for Rivers has had ups/downs and the GM position is the same. Rivers up and down play reflects these flaws in the organization.

[Happy]

3 minutes ago, Like A Mofo said:

In the NFL you need 4 things to be great:

 

Ownership

 

Coach

 

GM

 

QB

 

In San Diego and now LA, its clear the 1st one (Spanos) is horrendous, one of the worst owners in the sport hands down. Coaching for Rivers has had ups/downs and the GM position is the same. Rivers up and down play reflects these flaws in the organization.

 

Logical point which makes me wonder if the same couldn't be said about Matt Stafford.  Detroit hasn't exactly been a model organization and the Ford family has been too old, out of touch, and hands off (good thing in this case) to be of any help.

[C.Biscuit97]

31 minutes ago, Gordio said:

 

They should of never got rid of Brees.  They kept the wrong QB in hindsight.  

 

Brees had a really bad shoulder injury at the time. It’s why Miami didn’t sign him. 
 

and I used to feel bad for him but this clip makes him like a giant d bag.  Dude helps him up and he screams in his ear. He should laid him out. 
 

https://mobile.twitter.com/NFL_Memes/status/1204392912659857409?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-26699525554090590446.ampproject.net%2F1911191835190%2Fframe.html

Edited December 13, 2019 by C.Biscuit97

[Xwnyer]

If he had a head coach who has come up with many different mechanisms to cheat he might have Brady's wins

[Like A Mofo]

21 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Logical point which makes me wonder if the same couldn't be said about Matt Stafford.  Detroit hasn't exactly been a model organization and the Ford family has been too old, out of touch, and hands off (good thing in this case) to be of any help.

 

I do agree. I a Rivers fan and yes he does deserve his share of the blame for some of the disappointments in SD/LA. I feel the same about Tony Romo, who had some historically bad defenses playing behind him in Dallas.

[White Linen]

28 minutes ago, Like A Mofo said:

In the NFL you need 4 things to be great:

 

Ownership

 

Coach

 

GM

 

QB

 

 

 

I agree totally.  If one of them isn't great than the other 3 can't be and that's the real difficult part. 

[US Egg]

He's a whiner, but will probably get in the HOF 1st time round.

 

His side arm delivery looked weird, but he was effective.

 

Him in the debate of being the GOAT - that is just silly talk.

[TheBrownBear]

I've lived in San Diego for the majority of his career and I think he's one of the most overrated QBs of all-time.  People here seem to love him, but I think it's more about his personality and toughness than his actual play.  He had a couple of truly great years early in his career, but since then he's been insanely unclutch and always seems to come up with a boneheaded turnover at the most inopportune times.  He's a yardage compiler and does not belong in the HOF imo.

[peterpan]

P Manning is the goat and it's really not close.   Brew Brees is second in line.  

[ColinM22]

Reminds me of Stafford. “Franchise QB” that just can’t get it done. Too many coaching changes will neuter a QB and I think that’s the biggest contributor to these two QBs lack of playoff success. But that aside, something seems to be missing. The ability to control a game and make up for their teams downfalls. Great QBs should be making their teammates around them better. I never get the feeling (besides maybe some games early in their careers) that these two QBs take over games and put the team on their back.

 

That being said, feel lucky that the Bills have Coach/GM in place to give Allen the best chance to succeed for hopefully many years to come!

 

Go Bills

[JimKellyTryouts]

Lynn isn't going anywhere - at least this offseason

Edited December 13, 2019 by JimKellyTryouts

[Albwan]

Is this a start Tyrod Taylor thread?

[prissythecat]

1 hour ago, Like A Mofo said:

In the NFL you need 4 things to be great:

 

Ownership

 

Coach

 

GM

 

QB

 

In San Diego and now LA, its clear the 1st one (Spanos) is horrendous, one of the worst owners in the sport hands down. Coaching for Rivers has had ups/downs and the GM position is the same. Rivers up and down play reflects these flaws in the organization.

 

Dallas won 3 Superbowls with Jerry Jones as owner and GM?   

[WotAGuy]

Rivers is Fitz with a better arm.  Not gonna raise the level of performance around him. Longevity is his primary strong suit. 

Edited December 13, 2019 by WotAGuy