RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 At the risk of tearing open a slowly healing (?) division between two cities that used to be bitter rivals, has anyone else noticed the alacrity with which Bob Matthews and Leo Roth at the D and C have been pouring cold water on the idea of a Bills stadium in downtown Buffalo? Not content to say, as Ed Kilgore and most sensible observers have said, that the idea from the Common Council is DOA, and a transparent ploy to score political points, they have actively tried to paint it as a bad idea. Matthews especially had to trot out his plan for a stadium in Batavia. In so doing, he had to say that building Rich/the Ralph was always a bad idea, because it was too far from Rachacha, a bit of revisionist history that he softens marginally by noting that back in the late 60s no one thought of the Bills as a regional franchise. Which is a nice way of saying that back then folks in Rochester, clutching the corporate logos of Kodak and Xerox to their WASPy chests, were too busy telling everyone how much better they were than the grubby folks in Buffalo with vowels at the end of their names to worry much about wanting a piece of the Bills action... Whoops, maybe those divisions are still there after all. Actually, this is the question I wanted to ask the folks at TSW, which after all has Rochester roots. When I was growing up in Niagara Falls, Rochester was awfully far away in every sense. (actually, for many folks in NF, there was still a sense of rivalry/division with Buffalo, which says even more about the old-fashioned tribalism of WNY...) Even when my sister went off to the U of R in the early 1980s, I do not remember anyone feeling that Rochester and the Niagara Frontier (one of my favorite terms from Commander Tom... the original, that is) enjoyed anything but the most tenuous connection to each other. The last couple of decades of economic crisis and population flight have made regionalism both inevitable and necessary. But have those forces also encouraged people to put aside old senses of identity and rivalry? As an exile from WNY, I am not close enough to really be able to tell anymore. Any thoughts on this? Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiew Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Rochester? Is that a suburb of Buffalo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndZoneCrew Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 what???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I'm not sure where you get your WASP information from, but Rochester has one of the largest Italian populations per capita in the united states. Waspy? Whatever. Not to mention having an extremely large Jewish population. Additionally, there are more catholics here per capita than you would expect. WASPY? Get a clue. I love living in Rochester. I like that I can see my Bills whenever I want, can shop at Wegmans, can get a Garbage Plate (yeah, garbage plates are waspy), can see one of the best Philharmonics in the US, etc. Rochester is a very well-rounded city and there isn't a city in WNY I'd rather live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndZoneCrew Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I'm not sure where you get your WASP information from, but Rochester has one of the largest Italian populations per capita in the united states. Waspy? Whatever. Not to mention having an extremely large Jewish population. Additionally, there are more catholics here per capita than you would expect. WASPY? Get a clue. I love living in Rochester. I like that I can see my Bills whenever I want, can shop at Wegmans, can get a Garbage Plate (yeah, garbage plates are waspy), can see one of the best Philharmonics in the US, etc. Rochester is a very well-rounded city and there isn't a city in WNY I'd rather live in. 303457[/snapback] Kudos to both Rachacha and B-lo.....great people, great food.....and hopefully great football!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobblehead Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Bob Matthews is the voice of the blue-hair sports scene in Rochester, and his audience is primarily the same blue-hair types who are very stodgy and shallow-minded about their sports. It's interesting to listen to, but you have to keep in mind that it is not very open-minded opinion. But.... The opposition coming from Matthews and the Rochester media has more to do with the financial situation of the state, rather than divisions between Rochester and Buffalo. They are responding to 1) Manhattan requesting 600 million for a new stadium that could cost half that much simply by moving it out of Manhattan, with upstate getting no value out of it. 2) Rochester currently building a 25 million soccer stadium and the team now asking the state for 9 million more of existing funds to complete the 'phase 2' portion (I don's see this as as big a deal as the Rochester media is making it out to be, but anywhoo.) 3) NYS already having arguably the highest taxes in the nation. 4) Upstate populations dwindling for the last 20 years. 5) And now Buffalo on top of all of this, proposing a new downtown stadium. Add all of this up and that is where the opposition gets it's legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyT Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Bob Matthews is the voice of the blue-hair sports scene in Rochester, and his audience is primarily the same blue-hair types who are very stodgy and shallow-minded about their sports. It's interesting to listen to, but you have to keep in mind that it is not very open-minded opinion. But.... The opposition coming from Matthews and the Rochester media has more to do with the financial situation of the state, rather than divisions between Rochester and Buffalo. They are responding to 1) Manhattan requesting 600 million for a new stadium that could cost half that much simply by moving it out of Manhattan, with upstate getting no value out of it. 2) Rochester currently building a 25 million soccer stadium and the team now asking the state for 9 million more of existing funds to complete the 'phase 2' portion (I don's see this as as big a deal as the Rochester media is making it out to be, but anywhoo.) 3) NYS already having arguably the highest taxes in the nation. 4) Upstate populations dwindling for the last 20 years. 5) And now Buffalo on top of all of this, proposing a new downtown stadium. Add all of this up and that is where the opposition gets it's legs. 303481[/snapback] I'd like to add a sixth point (although its probably just supporting #5)... 6) NY contributed $63 million to renovate the Ralph only five years ago and reimbursed the team for prior improvements, which upped the total subsidy to $95 million. The stadium is viable for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike32282 Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I agree with Matthews. The stadium would have made soo much more sense if it was near the Thruway in Batavia. There is lots of land there and it's between Rochester and Buffalo and closer to other areas so that the team could regionalize itself a lot better. I know it's not much of a drive...but where it is now makes no sense when you want to make it the team of WNY and regionalize it. It helps that TC is in Rochester though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted April 13, 2005 Author Share Posted April 13, 2005 I'm not sure where you get your WASP information from, but Rochester has one of the largest Italian populations per capita in the united states. Waspy? Whatever. Not to mention having an extremely large Jewish population. Additionally, there are more catholics here per capita than you would expect. WASPY? Get a clue. I love living in Rochester. I like that I can see my Bills whenever I want, can shop at Wegmans, can get a Garbage Plate (yeah, garbage plates are waspy), can see one of the best Philharmonics in the US, etc. Rochester is a very well-rounded city and there isn't a city in WNY I'd rather live in. 303457[/snapback] Todd, Thanks for your response. I appreciate the information, and did not want to slam contemporary Roch (I have family that lives there now). I was being consciously hyperbolic to describe the prejudices against Roch that were current when I was a kid. As I hinted, since so few people in Buff/NF went to Rochester, it was quite likely they were based on false info. Still, based on what I have heard from friends and family who have lived there, there is some truth to the old light bulb joke: How many Rochesterians does it take to screw in a light bulb? 300,001; One to screw it in and 300,000 to say it is better than any light bulb in Buffalo.... As far as the other comments go, I agree there are plenty of excellent reasons why a new stadium in Bflo will not happen and should not happen. I simply find it interesting that Matthews and Roth didn't simply let the lead balloon fall, but insisted on stomping it when it was on the ground. If I may offer one more provocative comment, it is that this reaction reflects a rochesterian horror that, despite all the gratifying references to regionalism (which makes Rochester central to the future of the Bills), the Bills are still a team based in greater Buffalo. Which suggests that there are still old cultural/geographic divides out there. Go Bills! RJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet baboo Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I'm not sure where you get your WASP information from, but Rochester has one of the largest Italian populations per capita in the united states. Waspy? Whatever. Not to mention having an extremely large Jewish population. Additionally, there are more catholics here per capita than you would expect. WASPY? Get a clue. I love living in Rochester. I like that I can see my Bills whenever I want, can shop at Wegmans, can get a Garbage Plate (yeah, garbage plates are waspy), can see one of the best Philharmonics in the US, etc. Rochester is a very well-rounded city and there isn't a city in WNY I'd rather live in. 303457[/snapback] i live in rochester now...i miss mighty taco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I love listening to Bob Matthews. He is living proof that anyone can become a sports columnist...even if you are illiterate and can't speak English. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I love listening to Bob Matthews. He is living proof that anyone can become a sports columnist...even if you are illiterate and can't speak English. PTR 303679[/snapback] Isn't that the truth. I like to listen to his show just to see which player's name he'll completely mangle tonight. When he and Freddy Smerlas are on together, you need a translator to make sense of the proceedings. As a writer his laziness makes him the original model for today's self-styled online sports pundits. I have it on good authority that prior to the onset of the Web, Matthews regularly could be found at World Wide News on St. Paul Street buying all the out-of-town papers to get material for his columns. Now, of course, he doesn't even need to leave his desk for that. I think Scott Pitoniak and Sal Maiorana are decent reporters. Leo Roth always seems to have an axe to grind. That said, all three of them are more talented at stringing words together to form simple sentences than Matthews... which I guess isn't saying much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Rochester is a very well-rounded city and there isn't a city in WNY I'd rather live in. 303457[/snapback] This coming from a guy with missing front teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
respk Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Long term, the only chance the Bills survive in Buffalo is for them to build a stadium near Batavia where it can more easily draw fans from Syracuse and Albany and keep drawing fans from Buffalo, Rochester and Canada. A downtown Buffalo stadium could mean the death of the franchise. Buffalo alone can no longer support the suites and premium seating that is required for an NFL franchise. The area from Toronto to Buffalo to Rochester to Syracuse to Albany probably can. What really needs to be done is to find the center of the population that the Bills can draw from and build a new stadium as close as possible to it. This gives the franchise the largest population to easily draw from. By the way, who lives in downtown Buffalo that the politicians feel it should be easier for them to get to the games? Excellent idea to start planning for a new stadium now and be ready to build in 8-10 years, just not in downtown Buffalo. As to the finances of it all: The only people concerned about not spending the money seem to live in upstate NY. NYC will always be building a new facility at taxpayers expense, why shouldn't upstate NY as well. Upstate seems to think that if they refuse to build a new stadium the money will go to education, reduce taxes, etc. In today's current political climate that is pure fantasy. If upstate doesn't use the money, another part of NY will. At least until voters get smart enough to vote for politicians who change that and the money truly does go for education, reduce taxes, etc. But I don't see that happening anytime soon either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 This is the biggest crock of stojan I have ever heard. Build a stadium in the middle of nowhere just so it is closer to the people of Rochester? !@#$ the people of Rochester! If they don't like driving the extra 20 miles to Buffalo instead of Batavia, maybe they should become Giants or Jets fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Maybe Rochester should apply for an NFL expansion team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Too much sense of entitlement. Whiny Amerks fans lamenting the team's vast amount of wins to losses. Pissing off the Baltimore Orioles......when does it all end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
respk Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 First off, it's 40 miles from Buffalo to Batavia and it is 47 miles from Orchard Park to Batavia. Secondly, a central stadium isn't so Rochester people don't have to drive 40 miles. The location makes the commute shorter for people beyond Rochester, out to Syracuse and Albany. If you really think the Buffalo area alone can support an NFL franchise you are living in a fantasy land. This is the biggest crock of stojan I have ever heard. Build a stadium in the middle of nowhere just so it is closer to the people of Rochester? !@#$ the people of Rochester! If they don't like driving the extra 20 miles to Buffalo instead of Batavia, maybe they should become Giants or Jets fans. 303938[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Too much sense of entitlement. Whiny Amerks fans lamenting the team's vast amount of wins to losses. Pissing off the Baltimore Orioles......when does it all end? 303952[/snapback] It was the Orioles who pissed US off, not the other way around! Angelos destroyed that franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 First off, it's 40 miles from Buffalo to Batavia and it is 47 miles from Orchard Park to Batavia. Secondly, a central stadium isn't so Rochester people don't have to drive 40 miles. The location makes the commute shorter for people beyond Rochester, out to Syracuse and Albany. If you really think the Buffalo area alone can support an NFL franchise you are living in a fantasy land. 304520[/snapback] And 40 miles extra is going to matter to the "millions" of fans from Syracuse and Albany? Last time I looked, the Bills were selling out almost every game. Lots of fans come from a distance to the game, be it Canada, the southern tier, etc. If they built a stadium in Batavia, at least the 10 or 20 fans in Batavia would have a short drive to the stadium. And it's nice of Rochester to share the Amerks with Buffalo this year. At least they get to play in front of a full house for 2 games this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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