Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, BringBackFlutie said: No I was thinking this exact thing last night. On the Brown and Knox throws it looked like they could've gotten up under it if they weren't fading to one side or the other. On the Beasley throw, he or Josh or both of them have to realize that Beasley had a clean break to the outside, and if Josh throws it anywhere in that vicinity, Beasley has a ton of room to make the catch easily (I call these KC Chiefs plays). Instead, Josh throws it over top, which is a much lower percentage, and Beasley is no where near it. Noticing these things just made it more frustrating to me, because then it seems it's not just a QB problem, but an overall problem with him and his receivers, understanding angles, depth of coverage, when to throw, when to look for it, etc. the one that drew PI? Edited December 11, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood
Mr. WEO Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 So this means OP is "getting looks" as an OC in the NFL now?
Bing Bong Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 It's not our WR's build.. we settled for decent WR's as a major upgrade to the veritable crap we trotted out last year. They're still not good enough. Plenty of small guys crush it on deep balls, Steve Smith Sr, our guys need to beat their man better. JA needs speed more than anything. Then he doesn't have to worry so much about where it lands. It's better to overthrow than underthrow, and when the CB is tight on the WR JA is going to do the right thing and err on the side of overthrow.
BringBackFlutie Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: the one that drew PI? Nah, I think it was the first one, which may have been Knox and not Beasley. This one. Edited December 11, 2019 by BringBackFlutie
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, BringBackFlutie said: Nah, I think it was the first one, which may have been Knox and not Beasley. This one. https://twitter.com/YardsPerPass/status/1204507135775793152 You’re completely right Allen can throw a laser (what he’s good at) for Beasley continuing to the sideline. By turning back up field it actually allowed coverage to close the separation anyway. A perfect pass probably still gets broken up. Also really annoying how easily ravens covered everything with 4 DBs most of the game.
In Summary Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 For deep completions, the Kelly to Lofton connection was memorable. Kelly really put some arc on his deep balls. Two hall-of-famers playing catch.
LeGOATski Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 21 minutes ago, BringBackFlutie said: Nah, I think it was the first one, which may have been Knox and not Beasley. This one. If Allen just leads the receiver, the DB has no chance to make a play on that. Just a horrible throw. Pressure was about to get to him.
BringBackFlutie Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: You’re completely right Allen can throw a laser (what he’s good at) for Beasley continuing to the sideline. By turning back up field it actually allowed coverage to close the separation anyway. A perfect pass probably still gets broken up. Also really annoying how easily ravens covered everything with 4 DBs most of the game. Right so we all lament the missed deep throw on that one, which would've ended in, at least, a field goal, but there are SO MANY other ways to exploit those deep routes that are HIGHER percentage. I don't know if that's comforting or frustrating, though. On one hand, it's not like this game of pinning our hopes on Allen making one very specific, very low percentage throw (which will smooth out, but never be perfect, over time). On the other hand, that's an easy thing to read that he and Beasley should be getting by now, ESPECIALLY if the plan A strategy for that game was to get over the top. There's just so much that broke down on offense that didn't need to, DESPITE the missed over-the-shoulder throws (we're now down to what, 2 overthrows and 2 drops, if you consider this one miscommunication?). It's maddening. It's not that I don't think it'll be fixed, either. It's just that I want it to get fixed soon, and at this point I think Josh Allen's head is spinning with everything he's absorbed this year. Edited December 11, 2019 by BringBackFlutie 1
Formerly Allan in MD Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 Josh overthrows his targets time and again. And in the last game, the wind and Doboll's play calling didn't help.
cd1 Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 7 hours ago, The Firebaugh Kid said: What happened to "fearless"? Fearless is not scared of the interception. He is too tight in these big games. Coaches have to correct this. Sometimes I wonder if Daboll doesn't get the "Big Games" in his head. 1
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Formerly Allan in MD said: Josh overthrows his targets time and again. And in the last game, the wind and Doboll's play calling didn't help. Right. Any wide reciever running a route requiring a bucket drop on the Bills is a wasted route. Anytime thats the first or second read it’s probably a wasted play. The guy throws ropes and lasers allover the field pretty accurately so fricken use that!!! Stop forcing any routes that require Peyton like touch passes or Michael Thomas / Keenan Allen /Tyreek like WRs. It’s low percentage to begin with and on this team it’s no percentage. Really irritating taking 30 yard shots on 3rd and 4. 2 1
billspro Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 8 hours ago, jrober38 said: I don't think this makes much sense. The shortest route from point A (the QB) to point B (where the ball lands) is a straight line. Pushing farther up field in an attempt to round their route off isn't going to accomplish anything if they already can't get to the ball running in a straight line. If Allen was under throwing these passes, this would make sense, but there's nothing you can do to a route to make things work if the QB is consistently throwing the ball 5 yards too far. 100%. I'd guess Allen has missed 8-10 deep balls to guys running free behind the coverage this year. He missed three of them in the first quarter against the Ravens alone. Those 8-10 plays likely would have resulted in a bunch of touchdowns. If he hits those plays we are taking about an elite QB this year. Hopefully, he can work on this in the offseason. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 8 hours ago, jrober38 said: Again, how do you coach someone to run faster? https://www.beebehouseofspeed.com/ You don't coach it, but athletic trainers claim that speed can be improved up to a point. For those who don't remember Don Beebe (aka "white Flash") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Beebe 'Zo Alexander ran a 5.17 40 pre-draft. He claims he's way faster now - I don't remember what he said but it was lower than 4.7s. Part of it is weight - he weighed close to 300 lbs at the Combine and plays at 245 today. Part of it is muscle mass. And part of it is training for fast twitch/burst.
Rocket94 Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Antonio said: The point is, if you are the OC of the Buffalo Bills, how do you help Josh Allen? What do you do to help bim connect to his WR that are running open? Yes, Josh is not putting the ball where it needs to be. That is what I said at the beginning, he is inaccurate on those deep shots just as my QB. My solution, run the routes pushing downfield insted of cutting 45° to either side. Even when you are crossing from outside in, do it pushing forward, try to go deeper. You already have a step or to on the DB. That way the QB´s window to throw is biger. Some of Allen's throws appeared to me as nonchalant zips up the field. On a couple of occasions, Allen had time to throw and he still threw the ball in to another orbit. What about his concentration? Is he day dreaming about women? Edited December 11, 2019 by Rocket94
ngbills Posted December 12, 2019 Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: https://www.beebehouseofspeed.com/ You don't coach it, but athletic trainers claim that speed can be improved up to a point. For those who don't remember Don Beebe (aka "white Flash") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Beebe 'Zo Alexander ran a 5.17 40 pre-draft. He claims he's way faster now - I don't remember what he said but it was lower than 4.7s. Part of it is weight - he weighed close to 300 lbs at the Combine and plays at 245 today. Part of it is muscle mass. And part of it is training for fast twitch/burst. Please please please do not use Zo as an example of this. He was a 300lb DT in college. Of course he ran a 5.17 40. Anyone that loses 50+ pounds will get way faster. Most guys will learn not get much faster after entering the NFL. That usually happens as they progress through high school and college. Edited December 12, 2019 by ngbills
Not at the table Karlos Posted December 12, 2019 Posted December 12, 2019 8 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I think they’ve over corrected. Bills dont have a legit deep ball wr and seems like josh is overthrowing everything rather than under throwing. Because no one on the team is beating a corner to the ball. I noticed he’s making very few risky passes these days. For contrast, Watch the Steelers this weekend. duck will just slog it up and there are several guys on that team that will come down with the ball. John Brown has been a legit deep ball receiver his entire career
Not at the table Karlos Posted December 12, 2019 Posted December 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Right. Any wide reciever running a route requiring a bucket drop on the Bills is a wasted route. Anytime thats the first or second read it’s probably a wasted play. The guy throws ropes and lasers allover the field pretty accurately so fricken use that!!! Stop forcing any routes that require Peyton like touch passes or Michael Thomas / Keenan Allen /Tyreek like WRs. It’s low percentage to begin with and on this team it’s no percentage. Really irritating taking 30 yard shots on 3rd and 4. It seems most of not all of Joshs completed deep balls last year were deep crossers or posts where he could zip it in there. Some reason they’re missing from the offense this year and we run a lot of vertical routes which he struggles with. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 12, 2019 Posted December 12, 2019 7 hours ago, Antonio said: Ok I did my best LOL I can´t find another way. Red is the rout as he ran it. Yellow is what I am suggesting, push downfield insted of cutting to flat. Brown.vpj 4.33 kB · 21 downloads Any chance you could convert that to an mp4? Caveat I do not have video project editor software and can not vouch for the instructions in that link.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 12, 2019 Posted December 12, 2019 59 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said: John Brown has been a legit deep ball receiver his entire career So was Lee Evans, until he wasn’t. Smoke isn’t running 4.3 anymore.
WideNine Posted December 12, 2019 Posted December 12, 2019 Allen had a tough game and he needs to improve, but he needs some help from the rest of his offense and coaching staff too. The blitz got in his head early and threw off much of the poise and timing he had shown against Dallas. The result was dirt balls, balls thrown behind, or throws simply to areas where the receiver would be a split second later. All QBs get worse when the blitz is getting to them. When pass pro broke down Daboll tried a few designed rollouts, but Baltimore has very good sideline to sideline speed and defenders were breathing down Allen's neck on those and our receivers could not get away from the Raven's coverage downfield. Screens had some success in the 2nd half, but I think we needed to have reliable dump off options (that Allen uses) to Singletary, Yeldon, or a TE earlier when protections broke down. The line needs to start games better as it was a jailbreak early and often. Also I was not happy with Knox whiffing on his block. Grab that defender, and drag him into the damn turf and take the holding call. It's preferable to your QB getting lit up from the blind side, hurt, and fumbling the ball. They did not play very well in the first half, but started to have a better understanding of what protections to use in the second half. By that time the damage was done and some plays were left on the field. Also, the clock in Allen's head was in hurry up and get the ball out of my hand mode, or run for my life and throw it away mode. They also tended to bring pressure from the side that Brown was on because they saw that Josh had a tendency to go to his reads away from the pressure side. Teams that can play man and match our receivers will continue to follow this blitzing blueprint. Daboll needs to start the game with scripted plays that require short drops till Allen and this team finds its rhythm and starts better matching protections to the blitz packages later in games. Teams will continue to play man and jam/grab our receivers to slow them and also impact timing so longer drops by Allen play into their hands and let those speed rushers abuse our edges. Borq needs to do a better job punting and helping to flip the field too. Regarding deep balls (thrown) Not too many QBs light up New Era with deep balls when the winds are gusting. Lamar's one deep pass was a blown cover 0 with no one deep, so he could just lob it up to left field and let his TE run underneath it. Great read on his part, so not taking that away. IMO, when the winds are like that, I would tell Allen screw "touch" and throw it on a rope to your receiver if you are going to go deep. Rather see those passes setting their gloves on fire than the overly safe overthrows he makes in a stiff gale because he is perhaps worried too much - about the pass dying, falling short, and getting intercepted. Just a theory...as I am out of other ideas other than keep working on it. If we know anything about this kid it is that he has work ethic, and a fire to be the best. Allen will keep working, and I think Daboll has been demonstrating more plasticity than I gave him credit for in his approach to game planning, adjustments, developing Allen, and developing this offense. They will bounce back. This team and Allen have come much further than I ever hoped for this year and were a play away from maybe taking that game away from the team that is playing some of the best football in the NFL right now. On to the Steelers, where they hopefully get to meet Josh the surgeon that played on Thanksgiving; Our DARPA lab-enhanced 2.0 version of Big Ben. Still relevant in December - Go Bills!
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