THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - Not There Yet

[row_33]

1 hour ago, Casey D said:

I think the Bills may have started a book on Jackson.  We shall see, as most teams do not have the Bills' defensive talent, but they made Jackson look ordinary. Keep him in the pocket and he is not that good.

 

 

they were up 15 in the 4th, teams pull back a bit on risk-taking and go into prevent at that point

 

they want the win, especially on the road, with the least injuries and risk and showing opponents how they are in the clutch

 

that did that

 

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by row_33

[Jrb1979]

51 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Their defense was more dominant than ours yesterday.  Made our O look sick.  Josh needs to grow from this and someone has to figure out having a hot read he can go to quickly when the blitz comes.

That's what I am afraid of. Allen has looked very good against the weaker defenses but so far against the better ones he has had his worst games. Allen is at his best when he moves around  to make plays. When teams have made him stay in the pocket he has looked pretty bad. Til he learns to be a better pocket passer and picks up blitzes better nothing will change. 

[Bleedbuffaloblue]

To me the difference in the game was one blown coverage by the Bills secondary on that throw to Hurst early in the second half. JA definitely did not have his best performance out there yesterday, but surely neither did Jackson. To me except for that one play the two teams played to a standstill. Both defenses were outstanding, both running games sparked a few times, but could not sustain much because of the defenses were too good and possibly our OC’s decision to go away from the run too quickly. Just one of those games where you hate to be the team that falls a little short when the final gun goes off IMO.

Both teams showed they are playoff caliber clubs. The Bills obviously need one more win to make that official, but that should come on Sunday night in Pittsburgh. Personally, I would not want to be the Steelers right now because I believe the Bills to a person know they let a big one slip away yesterday and they are going to come out of that tunnel at Heinz Field breathing fire!

Hopefully we will get to see these Ravens again in the playoffs and the outcome will be more to our liking. Go Bills!

[freddyjj]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Foster still seems to be a one-trick pony; when Allen threw his prayer, late, deep down field in the third quarter, Foster was badly outfought for the ball.   Was it pass interference?   Technically, maybe yes, but you aren’t going to get that call on a desperation throw where you simply aren’t aggressive enough. 

 

Wow you took the words right out of my mouth.  If Foster comes back to QB and jumps through that ball as its coming down he gets the call.

 

Here's hoping OBD drafts/signs a big WR and also a game changer / speed demon type with gadget and return capability.  McKenzie and Roberts would be expendable then.

Edited December 9, 2019 by freddyjj

[Casey D]

16 minutes ago, row_33 said:

Your point is valid, but that's not what happened.  It's not like they were racking up yards and stopped in the 4th when they  had it "locked up."  Indeed, they never had it locked up as a thumbnail prevented the score from being tied late by Brown.  They contained Jackson all game except the Hurst play.  Other than that, scores came after turnovers and poor punts.

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they were up 15 in the 4th, teams pull back a bit on risk-taking and go into prevent at that point

 

they want the win, especially on the road, with the least injuries and risk and showing opponents how they are in the clutch

 

that did that

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Casey D

[Bring it]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

All good points.   

 

As I said, the Ravens are really good.   

 

But when they put 8 men on the line of scrimmage, a good team with a good QB and good receivers should make them pay.  Bills didn't. 

Not enough they didn’t. As you said the offense isn’t there yet! Still,  the team is getting better as the season wears on. Probably top 5 or 6 in the league where I felt after the loss to New England that they were 10 to 12.

[Scott7975]

Why does everyone keep saying that Lamar threw a 61 air yard  TD?  That never freaking happened.  The play started at the Ravens 40 and the pass was caught at the Buffalo 45.  That's 15 yards plus however far back Lamar was from the Los.  Hint... he wasn't behind the LOS by 45 yards.  The wide open blown covered Hurst, with his 250+ lb. ass ran the other 45 yards untouched.  It was a 61 yard TD that was caught at the Buffalo 45.  Play by play will show that at the Buff 41 but it was in his hands at the 45.  At best it was a 20 yard pass.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Scott7975

[Rocky Landing]

54 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Best way to beat a zero blitz is to just have - gronk.  Or someone like that.  You have no player that can beat him in single coverage.  So every time you have him iso'd you know you have like a pretty good chance to get a positive play.  

The "big playmaker" That we all know is missing from this O.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

The "big playmaker" That we all know is missing from this O.

 

I'm also fairly certain duke williams is NOT that guy.  

[Rocky Landing]

1 minute ago, dneveu said:

 

I'm also fairly certain duke williams is NOT that guy.  

I'm a big Duke Williams fan, but I don't think he's that guy either, although I do think he can make catches that no one else on the Bills can. That being said, there wasn't a single player on our offense yesterday that the Ravens were uncomfortable putting single coverage on. I suspect they might have felt the need to double-cover Duke in the red zone. But, your point is well taken. We need a true playmaker, whether that is WR, TE, or even RB. And, I take the QB out of that equation. It can't all be on Josh.

[KD in CA]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Allen threw his prayer, late, deep down field in the third quarter, Foster was badly outfought for the ball.   Was it pass interference?   Technically, maybe yes, but you aren’t going to get that call on a desperation throw where you simply aren’t aggressive enough. 

 

This is exactly right and what all the people screaming for a challenge were ignoring.

[Maine-iac]

19 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

The "big playmaker" That we all know is missing from this O.

It doesn't matter if we had a "big playmaker" if Allen isn't hitting them.  We already have guys running open behind the secondary and Allen isn't hitting them.  I believe he'll come around but like people are saying he's going to get blitzed until he makes them pay.

[Shaw66]

I have to respond to a few points.  

 

First, I agree with those who say the game was close, the Bills were competitive, we knew the Bills were a work in progress this season, etc.  In fact, if you reread my post, you'll see that I said those things.  

 

Second, I disagree - strongly - with those who say that Jackson--Allen wasn't the difference.   I don't see how anyone could think that.  From a simplistic point of view, just trade the stat lines.  Each had one turnover.  Jackson threw for three TDs, Allen for one.  Jackson ran for 40 yards, Allen ran for 9.  Jackson threw for more yards. 

 

But more importantly, look at it globally.   Jackson's unique skill set dictated that the Bills would do on defense.   They rushed the QB under control.  They didn't blitz.   They didn't attack.  The Ravens forced the Bills to play perfect defense if the Bills were going to win.   The defense was outstanding, but not perfect. 

 

Baltimore's defense, on the other hand, dictated what the Bills had to do.  The Ravens attacked the Bills offense all day long, because the film has made it clear that Allen struggles with pressure.   In other words, the Ravens defense forced the Bills to play perfect offense if the Bills were going to win.   The offense did about as well as Baltimore's offense, it's true, but the Bills' offense wasn't perfect.   

 

That difference, which drove the outcome of the game, was all driven by the difference in QBS.   

 

I love watching Jackson.  He's spectacular.  He will be a problem for defenses for many seasons, if he stays healthy.  But the league will catch up with him and make him a little less spectacular than he is right now.   

 

But I've said it before, and I'll say it again now.  If I'm building a team for the next ten seasons, I'm taking Allen.   He has some growing to do, but he has everything a great QB needs.  Yesterday, however, Allen's inability to make plays like Jackson can was the difference in the game. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

8 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I'm a big Duke Williams fan, but I don't think he's that guy either, although I do think he can make catches that no one else on the Bills can. That being said, there wasn't a single player on our offense yesterday that the Ravens were uncomfortable putting single coverage on. I suspect they might have felt the need to double-cover Duke in the red zone. But, your point is well taken. We need a true playmaker, whether that is WR, TE, or even RB. And, I take the QB out of that equation. It can't all be on Josh.

 

I'd have liked to see a bit better scheming - bring the WRs in to create boundary space that the corners have to cover - bunch them to free up press coverage - jet motion to flat foot linebackers/safeties in coverage or get them moving out of position.  

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Bleedbuffaloblue said:

To me the difference in the game was one blown coverage by the Bills secondary on that throw to Hurst early in the second half. JA definitely did not have his best performance out there yesterday, but surely neither did Jackson. To me except for that one play the two teams played to a standstill. Both defenses were outstanding, both running games sparked a few times, but could not sustain much because of the defenses were too good and possibly our OC’s decision to go away from the run too quickly. Just one of those games where you hate to be the team that falls a little short when the final gun goes off IMO.

Both teams showed they are playoff caliber clubs. The Bills obviously need one more win to make that official, but that should come on Sunday night in Pittsburgh. Personally, I would not want to be the Steelers right now because I believe the Bills to a person know they let a big one slip away yesterday and they are going to come out of that tunnel at Heinz Field breathing fire!

Hopefully we will get to see these Ravens again in the playoffs and the outcome will be more to our liking. Go Bills!

I'm not sure it was just one play, but what you say about the teams being evenly matched is more or less correct.  

 

If all goes well on Sunday night, the Bills defense will go back to attacking, and the Duck Boy won't understand what's going on, at all.  

[Whitey13]

3 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

I stopped reading at Doug flutie. That bastard needs permanent banned.

What's the deal with Flutie? I feel like I missed something because I've been seeing this a lot lately and I thought he was liked by most of the fan base.

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, Casey D said:

I disagree that the difference between Jackson and Allen "made all the difference in the game."  Jackson was as pedestrian as Allen yesterday.  Outside of the pass to Hurst, Jackson threw for 84 yards (145 total), Allen for 146 total.  Jackson did little with his legs.  A great play by the corner on Brown at the end of the game was the difference between a flat out tie, as well as the defensive breakdown on the Hurst play.

 

It was two heavyweights playing yesterday and exchanging punches, and we just came up short.  It was not all on Allen, nor did Jackson outplay him overall.  It was a team loss against a very good team.  Move on and get into the playoffs and who cares.  This is not our year to bring home the Lombardi.  The window is just opening on that.  But I hope we get a rematch in the playoffs this year against the Ravens, that would be fun to watch.

 

Not to mention that the passing schemes utilized by the two QB's are completely different.  Comparing one to the other yesterday is like comparing apples & oranges.

 

By my count, Jackson threw only one pass more then 20 yards down field and that was the long throw to Andrews that was incomplete.  The "61 yard" TD pass was caught about 15 yards past the LOS by a TE who was high school open.

 

Every other Jackson pass was a 5 - 10 yard throw to a TE over the middle; a screen pass; a swing pass to the RB or a WR screen.  There were a couple of 10 - 15 yard throws to the sideline but I believe they were all incomplete. 

 

Now don't get me wrong.  I love how Baltimore utilizes Jackson and Lamar should be the MVP this year.  The threat of his running makes those short passes to his sure handed TE's very dangerous.  But he's not asked to throw the ball in the same way Allen is and Jackson has a much better O-line and much better weapons (pass catching TE's & RB's) for what he's asked to do.

 

The Bills lost the game because the Baltimore defense outplayed the Bills offense by a wide margin.  And IMO in the 2nd half only Singleterry and Allen played well.  Yes, I said Allen, who while playing poorly in the first half had a good 2nd half.  Especially if his receivers had held onto a a couple of his throws and the ref had thrown a flag on an obvious PI.

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

Brady had 167 yards yesterday vs a similar scheme. It’s not josh’s fault that he’s getting teed off on. When the d has the luxury of sending the house over and over, no one is going to be effective. No one. You might make a few throws, you might get a few scrambles, but you can’t consistently operate. You try to break it up with screens and draws and swing passes. No one is worried about our screen game. The lines not athletic enough to get out in space and be effective. The WRs aren’t big enough to block downfield. So what are your options then? They blitz and you hope you can dodge the first two defenders who are gangbusting up the middle. Be prepared for the exact same thing from the Steelers and pats. Until the line can block and you can counter the blitz, it’s going to keep coming. 

 

This is so true I'm a little surprised that everyone doesn't see it.  In fact Fouts made exactly this point when describing how the physical make-up of our receivers severely limits our passing options. 

 

The lack of a big receiver means that we lose a lot of blocking potential on the WR screens.  It also means that our WR's get out muscled for the ball on almost EVERY throw into tight coverage.  And worst of all it means we almost never catch 50/50 balls.  There is also a cascade effect.  Brown is a very good receiver but can be taken out of a game when the opponent has a shut down corner.  If we had another receiving threat, teams would have to use their 2nd best corner to cover Smoke and their 3rd best cover guy to deal with Beasley.

 

And with a back like Singleterry this team should be running screen passes left & right.  But we don't and the reason has to be that our O-line isn't athletic enough to get out and block someone in space.  I believe that over 13 games this offense has only executed ONE freaking screen pass that has gone for over 10 yards.

 

The other limitation is that for whatever reason we don't trust our TE's to be hot reads on the blitz.  Either they can't get open or the possibility they'll drop the ball worries Daboll.

 

In some ways this offense has used smoke & mirrors to be successful.  When we match up with a defense athletically we can move the ball decently.  But when we face a good defense we struggle big time because it's easy for a defense to take away the couple of things our offense does well.

 

And as much as I admire Gore, the drop off in the fear we can put into a defense when he replaces Singleterry is obvious. 

 

 

[billspro]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

All good points.   

 

As I said, the Ravens are really good.   

 

But when they put 8 men on the line of scrimmage, a good team with a good QB and good receivers should make them pay.  Bills didn't. 

 

I think they need to give Yeldon a chance. He is a great receiving back and could add a screen game. Gore seems to have lost a step imo. I would also like to see them five Williams a shot over McKenzie or Foster. A good possession WR could help against cover 0.

[Shaw66]

10 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

This is so true I'm a little surprised that everyone doesn't see it.  In fact Fouts made exactly this point when describing how the physical make-up of our receivers severely limits our passing options. 

 

The lack of a big receiver means that we lose a lot of blocking potential on the WR screens.  It also means that our WR's get out muscled for the ball on almost EVERY throw into tight coverage.  And worst of all it means we almost never catch 50/50 balls.  There is also a cascade effect.  Brown is a very good receiver but can be taken out of a game when the opponent has a shut down corner.  If we had another receiving threat, teams would have to use their 2nd best corner to cover Smoke and their 3rd best cover guy to deal with Beasley.

 

And with a back like Singleterry this team should be running screen passes left & right.  But we don't and the reason has to be that our O-line isn't athletic enough to get out and block someone in space.  I believe that over 13 games this offense has only executed ONE freaking screen pass that has gone for over 10 yards.

 

The other limitation is that for whatever reason we don't trust our TE's to be hot reads on the blitz.  Either they can't get open or the possibility they'll drop the ball worries Daboll.

 

In some ways this offense has used smoke & mirrors to be successful.  When we match up with a defense athletically we can move the ball decently.  But when we face a good defense we struggle big time because it's easy for a defense to take away the couple of things our offense does well.

 

And as much as I admire Gore, the drop off in the fear we can put into a defense when he replaces Singleterry is obvious. 

 

 

This is all good stuff.   It also supports the argument for Duke Williams.   I mean, the guy isn't the answer to everything, but he would seem to be a better option with respect to the bolded portions.  The Bills get nothing out of McKenzie, Foster or Roberts with respect to the bolded issues.   Williams at least would give the DBs another style of play to worry about.  

 

You're right about Gore.   And you're right about not having enough options use against a good defense.  Even Singletary - defenses have to pay attention to him, but he isn't a true big-play threat.   He complements other players, but he isn't a guy to carry the load.