PatsFanNH Posted December 9, 2019 Author Posted December 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said: Ideas? Not really. The human element of the officials is a given. There should be a way to correct the errors that get made so the call is right. College football takes this approach, and the pace of the game isn’t usually effected that much where the game becomes unwatchable. I’d like the league to be transparent regarding grading of officials. Those that suck should be given the boot. Those that succeed should be rewarded. Maybe that happens? If it does, it isn’t transparent. So, the perception is that the officials are untouchable. Which leads to growing belief in fixes. I so agree! First let me say I do not believe the games are fixed just that the refs are just not as good as they use to be in years past. The Pats for example have had a lot of bad calls either go against them or not called.. and of course some favorable ones as well. I take it to be the refs lack of knowledge or inability for them to fix said error. 1 minute ago, Augie said: How do the Pats* fit the refs in under the salary cap? Sorry, this is the wrong place to come looking for sympathy. ? You should lose nothing for any challenge you win. It’s not your fault if they blew it and you have to throw the red flag. The refs should be penalized when they suck. I’m sure it’s done quietly by way of assignments, etc. I wish McD had thrown the challenge flag on the (to me obvious) PI call yesterday. Lol if you notice I kept the Pats out of it in the original post.. lol I wasn’t looking for sympathy I’m looking for fixes to something that’s broken is all.. the refs are definitely broken. as for PI how many times does that get overturned ? The refs rarely do and seem adamant not to unless the guy is trying to get a piggy back ride.. lol
ticketssince61 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 agreed. If you are right you get it back. Also, on the obvious long PI call that was not called, McDermott should have challenged He probably assumed it was a waste of a challenge since those are never overturned. 1
May Day 10 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 I vote no for anything that means more challenges and video replay. I actually want the leagues to just scrap it, and start from the beginning with only the most necessary replays (touchdown, in bounds), hockey: goal or no goal.
PatsFanNH Posted December 9, 2019 Author Posted December 9, 2019 1 minute ago, ticketssince61 said: agreed. If you are right you get it back. Also, on the obvious long PI call that was not called, McDermott should have challenged He probably assumed it was a waste of a challenge since those are never overturned. I agree about why McD didn’t challenge, he probably didn’t want lose a timeout on a long shot that they actually call PI via replay. the reffing yesterday league wide was scary bad. Just now, May Day 10 said: I vote no for anything that means more challenges and video replay. I actually want the leagues to just scrap it, and start from the beginning with only the most necessary replays (touchdown, in bounds), hockey: goal or no goal. Wasn’t all TO reviewed one the beginning as well? (I’m asking I honestly thought that’s always been reviewed since it’s started.) 1
row_33 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 replay isn't going to solve everything, it has added a few good things and brought just as many bad things i can't imagine sitting there for another 15 minutes lost for replays in football and hoops, enough already... and if you are in a fever that it's all a conspiracy against your team, there is no hope for you anyway
Sig1Hunter Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 9 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: I so agree! First let me say I do not believe the games are fixed just that the refs are just not as good as they use to be in years past. The Pats for example have had a lot of bad calls either go against them or not called.. and of course some favorable ones as well. I take it to be the refs lack of knowledge or inability for them to fix said error. Lol if you notice I kept the Pats out of it in the original post.. lol I wasn’t looking for sympathy I’m looking for fixes to something that’s broken is all.. the refs are definitely broken. as for PI how many times does that get overturned ? The refs rarely do and seem adamant not to unless the guy is trying to get a piggy back ride.. lol I don’t know that the league is fixed. But, I also don’t know that it isn’t. IF there was a fix, the officials are the obvious way to do it. The league seemingly goes a long way to distance itself from that (see the suspension on the Cards player for betting on games). Why aren’t they transparent in the evaluations of their officials? Be transparent about the selection process for officials. Why is Ed Hochuli’s son qualified to be a head ref? What about Gene Steratore’s son? Nepotism is a bad thing when qualifications don’t follow. How about making officials available for press conferences to answer to the press for their bad calls? Or having some kind of league judicial process where they have to answer “what the heck were you seeing? Why did you throw that flag? Etc”. I guess what I’m saying is hold their feet to the fire. They either get better or they get fired and find someone else. 1
row_33 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 fixed... okay... always against the team you cheer for.... sucks to have that happen... it isn't....
sullim4 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 This is a simple fix - eliminate coaches challenges and have an eighth official in the press box that can override any calls made by the on-field officials. The AAF did this and I thought it worked well. 39 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: I so agree! First let me say I do not believe the games are fixed just that the refs are just not as good as they use to be in years past. The Pats for example have had a lot of bad calls either go against them or not called.. and of course some favorable ones as well. I take it to be the refs lack of knowledge or inability for them to fix said error. I definitely believe that "good"/"popular" teams (Pittsburgh, NE*, Green Bay, Dallas, Seattle, etc) get the benefit of the doubt a lot more often than mediocre/bad teams. I don't know it it's conscious or subconscious... but without a doubt, across the league, teams like the Bengals, Cardinals, Bills, Jacksonville, etc get screwed a lot more often by close calls and poor officiating. 2
KD in CA Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Dopey said: BB messed up last night by not having a challenge left. It's ok, let it go. In his defense, how could BB possibly anticipate NE would be on the wrong end of a bad call at a critical juncture of the game!
Augie Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said: I so agree! First let me say I do not believe the games are fixed just that the refs are just not as good as they use to be in years past. The Pats for example have had a lot of bad calls either go against them or not called.. and of course some favorable ones as well. I take it to be the refs lack of knowledge or inability for them to fix said error. Lol if you notice I kept the Pats out of it in the original post.. lol I wasn’t looking for sympathy I’m looking for fixes to something that’s broken is all.. the refs are definitely broken. as for PI how many times does that get overturned ? The refs rarely do and seem adamant not to unless the guy is trying to get a piggy back ride.. lol I haven’t studied this and I don’t know the numbers, but I have heard that they have been trending up to actually overturn a few calls more often to get it right. That was a huge swing in the Bills game, but it’s over and we will move on. It’s all you can do.
Dopey Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, KD in CA said: In his defense, how could BB possibly anticipate NE would be on the wrong end of a bad call at a critical juncture of the game! I felt challenging a spot call for a 1st down wasn't worth it. Especially if it's close. Most time the call stands.
T master Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 2 hours ago, PatsFanNH said: An idea seeing as how so many bad calls are unable be challenged if you lose 1 of 2 challenges. My idea is simple, if you win the challenge you still have 2 challenges left if you lose goes to 1 and lose a time out. (Or if you have 1 you still have 1 left if won.). Seems like a plausible fix that way you always have a challenge left as long as you don’t lose two. thoughts? I know it isn’t perfect or solve every issue but a small fix at least. How about the head guy in NY watch every play & if it's wrong he over turns & makes it right ! There are calls every week that go against teams & from what i understand there were more than one in the Bills game this week that could have changed the out come of the game . For sure the one that the Pats had on the no TD call was bogus & if that would have happened to us this fan base would be bitchin a blue streak for ever due to it . If it can happen to the Pats it can happen to our team . The thing is they can make it where there are less faults in the system through technology, they have made it so a average singer like Tim McGraw can become a multi platinum recording artist with auto tune why can't they make football right with the technology available ??
entropyrules Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 well the one other bad thing about the blown calls in the Pats game is the officiating for the next game against the Bills is going to suck..guess which team is going to get the short end of the stick? I'll be curious to see if Hughes finishes the game with 25% of a jersey and no holding calls against the Pats
Boatdrinks Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 3 hours ago, BillsFanSD said: The problem is that any in-game fix will simply be ignored by the officials themselves, like the rule change to allow reviews of PI. The ultimate solution needs to be full-time, professional officials who are accountable to the league. The officials were only following the league’s directive. The NFL didn’t want PI calls overturned except as a failsafe for the playoffs. A few weeks ago, some high profile ex officials said their was some growing concern about fan reaction in the playoffs if they suddenly started overturning these calls. Not surprisingly , the calls have now started being overturned at a higher rate.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 3 hours ago, PatsFanNH said: An idea seeing as how so many bad calls are unable be challenged if you lose 1 of 2 challenges. My idea is simple, if you win the challenge you still have 2 challenges left if you lose goes to 1 and lose a time out. (Or if you have 1 you still have 1 left if won.). Seems like a plausible fix that way you always have a challenge left as long as you don’t lose two. thoughts? I know it isn’t perfect or solve every issue but a small fix at least. This is adorable. A Pats fan bitching about refereeing.
Boatdrinks Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Dopey said: I felt challenging a spot call for a 1st down wasn't worth it. Especially if it's close. Most time the call stands. Yep, spot challenges are rarely overturned. BB has to know this. Anyway, the missed TD for the Pats* just balanced out all the uncalled grounding by Brady and the ridiculous amount of uncalled offensive holding by the Pats* that is so prevalent in every game they play. 1
MAJBobby Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 3 hours ago, PatsFanNH said: An idea seeing as how so many bad calls are unable be challenged if you lose 1 of 2 challenges. My idea is simple, if you win the challenge you still have 2 challenges left if you lose goes to 1 and lose a time out. (Or if you have 1 you still have 1 left if won.). Seems like a plausible fix that way you always have a challenge left as long as you don’t lose two. thoughts? I know it isn’t perfect or solve every issue but a small fix at least. Your coach made a rookie Coach mistake and challenged a Spot. That cost him a challenge that gets you a TD. Get rid of the coaches challenge. Review every play real-time ALA NCAA. And Buzz down if an official review is needed. There fixed.
quinnearlysghost88 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 3 hours ago, PatsFanNH said: An idea seeing as how so many bad calls are unable be challenged if you lose 1 of 2 challenges. My idea is simple, if you win the challenge you still have 2 challenges left if you lose goes to 1 and lose a time out. (Or if you have 1 you still have 1 left if won.). Seems like a plausible fix that way you always have a challenge left as long as you don’t lose two. thoughts? I know it isn’t perfect or solve every issue but a small fix at least. “Please change more rules to accommodate our thin skin” 1
cba fan Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jobot said: It was a poor decision to challenge the first down. There needs to be clear evidence not only that the spot is wrong, but that it would result in a change to the decision of a 1st down or not. The spot was terrible, but it was still likely a first down.. hence the poor decision by BB. But to your point, the "2-win challenge rule for a 3rd" was initially put in place when challenges were first brought back to the league due to worries of impact to game flow that could result from so many challenges... now with all scoring plays, all turnovers, and inside 2-minutes requiring an automatic challenge, the game flow has been totally F'd so why not do what you're saying. what i don't understand is why BB could not challenge the spot being a yard or more off. Which it was. He then would have won that challenge and had a third challenge given to him for later use. They then could have spotted the ball at the new correct spot via determination on replay and then remeasured for first down. But apparently he can only challenge that the first down was not made. Why? They clearly marked it wrong by at least a yard. Still kinda inconclusive if he made first down line to gain or not so call stands. First down. Call was not confirmed so it was inconclusive. Then to confuse us further apparently BB can ask the refs to review two items on one challenge. The spot and PI. Not sure if it was a picplay/PI or other offensvie PI,. Romo basically said BB was a genius for taking advantage of kinda a loop hole. And Romo says they should have respotted it correclty by at least a yard+ and then remeasured. ok what kind of loophole did mangenious find and how would it have worked or backfired? If spot call is overturned in BB favor by respotting as I think it should have been, and PI was determined not a foul. Does BB lose the challenge or win it? He got ONE right and ONE wrong. Does he get a half a challenge returned. lol...???? Edited December 9, 2019 by cba fan
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 3 hours ago, PatsFanNH said: Oh I agree was a poor decision there! I was trying keep the Pats out of it and talking in general about tweeting the rule is all. Would it be a bad idea to keep a challenge unless you lose your challenge on that play? I think keep refs a bit more honest if they knew the challenge was still there. IMO the problem is that challenges are bandaids on an open sore in the first place. The real issue is that refereeing is not consistent from game to game and sometimes not even within games. Fix that and they'll be less challenges. Make the referees full time, have standardization meetings, and have telecons where game decisions are reviewed for correctness and consistency and the refs are graded after the game, just as the players are internally by their coaches based upon film review. Spots of the ball could easily be fixed with technology. In 2016, the NFL put quarter-size sensors inside the football during the 2016 preseason. The sensors sat under the laces. It's not known how positionally accurate they turned out to be, and I believe the program was D/C'd, but there is really no reason to rely on a ref's eyeballs followed by two sticks and a chain to figure out where the football wound up. Positional sensor technology continues to improve. Put sensors in the ball, and while you're at it white stripes on it for contrast ?
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