Nelius Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said: because he’s not an NFL caliber receiver. No need to mention what is obvious to everyone (besides you.) Unlike the undrafted ghost of Robert Foster, who the vast majority of this board is still waiting for. Maybe he'll have that breakout game in Week 15, eh? 1
GregPersons Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, MDH said: If only the coaching staff knew as much as the fans when it comes to Duke Williams. ? The coaching staff is human. They are not infallible. They are capable of making mistakes. Zay Jones. Kelvin Benjamin. NATHAN PETERMAN. What I like about this staff is that they generally don't hold the attitude that they're beyond reproach... they seem to respond to the data as it presents itself. While they have been stubborn and arrogant at times, there's not a coaching staff on the planet that hasn't. Duke played very well in his one game appearance. He was the hero of that game. He seemed to be well-liked by his teammates in all of the stories that came out that week. He played well enough to make Zay Jones expendable. Is Duke incapable of playing well again just because he hasn't yet played again? 13 minutes ago, Nelius said: The fans are seeing at least two receivers that do nothing on a weekly basis. It's a valid argument. I would love to hear a reporter ask McDermott or Daboll this — why NOT give Duke Williams a shot at TE??? He has the size and the hands to be effective. I don't know how he is as a blocker or on special teams. Even if he's lousy at both, we saw today how crucial it is to have a big-bodied receiver who can HOLD ONTO THE BALL. Could the staff give Duke some opportunity, even just a fraction of the amount of opportunity afforded to Knox or Zay Jones? I wouldn't sit any of the WRs but I would deactivate Tyler Kroft (or Lee Smith but I know he's needed for his ST play, whereas Kroft isn't). 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB — Brown, Beasley, Foster/McKenzie, Duke, Singletary 2 WR, 2 TE, 1 RB — Brown, Beasley, Duke, Knox/Smith, Singletary/Gore Edited December 9, 2019 by GregPersons 1
JoPoy88 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, Nelius said: Unlike the undrafted ghost of Robert Foster, who the vast majority of this board is still waiting for. Maybe he'll have that breakout game in Week 15, eh? foster is terrible too. What’s your point
Nelius Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 1 minute ago, JoPoy88 said: foster is terrible too. What’s your point ??? Pretty sure you just made it for me. It's outlandish for fans to talk about getting terrible guy 1 out of there so they can see potentially terrible guy 2 instead? Let's just continue to ignore our WR depth completely because we all know that everybody after Beasley sucks anyway?
JoPoy88 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Nelius said: ??? Pretty sure you just made it for me. It's outlandish for fans to talk about getting terrible guy 1 out of there so they can see potentially terrible guy 2 instead? Let's just continue to ignore our WR depth completely because we all know that everybody after Beasley sucks anyway? And if Duke can’t crack the active 46 with terrible, below replacement-level receivers like foster ahead of him, what’s that say about Duke chief? he’s trash. He belongs back in the CFL.
LABILLBACKER Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 4 hours ago, tannins said: Dropson Knox He was awful today.
Nelius Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 Just now, JoPoy88 said: And if Duke can’t crack the active 46 with terrible, below replacement-level receivers like foster ahead of him, what’s that say about Duke chief? he’s trash. He belongs back in the CFL. It could say a lot of things "chief" which is why we're having a discussion about it. They already had him in before so they're clearly waffling a bit with a bunch of bottom tier wide receivers, so it's perfectly fine for fans to discuss going with the guy that has a different skillset and scored a friggin TD when given the opportunity. This clearly annoys you for some reason. It's hours after a loss so I get it if you're 13 bourbons deep and looking for a fight ya old rascal. 1
GregPersons Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 20 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said: this exactly. Activating a guy that can’t get open to throw 50/50 balls to all day seems like not a very realistic formula for sustained offensive success. Yet here we are. Every week. The same people. (These people who, btw, do not see Duke in practice, as the coaches do, who are making the (likely) wise decision to park his butt on the inactive list.) None of us are seeing Duke in practice, and the media doesn't have access either, so we do not know if he's playing poorly there. He could be catching every ball thrown his way in practice. Both are possible. Duke is Schrodinger's cat. Why he hasn't been active on game day is not definitely "he isn't playing well in practice." We don't know that to be true. All we know for sure is that he must be practicing well enough to not get cut because he's still on the 53 man roster. What we do know are these things: —In his one game appearance, Duke Williams played very well. Is this debatable, or do we all agree on this point? —Dawson Knox leads the NFL in drops, and Tyler Kroft has not made any impact as a Bill —In the 5 games that Tyler Kroft has been healthy enough to play, he's caught 4 passes for 52 yards. —Duke Williams is 6'2", which is shorter than this team prefers for TE — but it's still within the range of NFL average height for TE (which is 6'3)... Delanie Walker is 6'0. 3 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said: And if Duke can’t crack the active 46 with terrible, below replacement-level receivers like foster ahead of him, what’s that say about Duke chief? he’s trash. He belongs back in the CFL. No. You can be as rude about it as you like, but that's not definitely true. Duke obviously has the potential to help the Bills passing game. He already displayed that, with this team, this season. He hasn't had the opportunity to repeat. Asking why he hasn't is a perfectly valid question. 2
JoPoy88 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, GregPersons said: None of us are seeing Duke in practice, and the media doesn't have access either, so we do not know if he's playing poorly there. He could be catching every ball thrown his way in practice. Both are possible. Duke is Schrodinger's cat. Why he hasn't been active on game day is not definitely "he isn't playing well in practice." We don't know that to be true. All we know for sure is that he must be practicing well enough to not get cut because he's still on the 53 man roster. What we do know are these things: —In his one game appearance, Duke Williams played very well. Is this debatable, or do we all agree on this point? —Dawson Knox leads the NFL in drops, and Tyler Kroft has not made any impact as a Bill —In the 5 games that Tyler Kroft has been healthy enough to play, he's caught 4 passes for 52 yards. —Duke Williams is 6'2", which is shorter than this team prefers for TE — but it's still within the range of NFL average height for TE (which is 6'3)... Delanie Walker is 6'0. No. You can be as rude about it as you like, but that's not definitely true. Duke obviously has the potential to help the Bills passing game. He already displayed that, with this team, this season. He hasn't had the opportunity to repeat. Asking why he hasn't is a perfectly valid question. See you started out completely correct then went somewhere else. you know who does see him every day in practice? The coaches. Who decides who’s active on sunday? The coaches. So while you correctly point out that we don’t know, I will continue to trust the guys that have more info than me. Seriously most here seem more than willing to heap praise on McD except when it comes to this poor, poor 6th string receiver that can’t get a shot. Except he did get a shot earlier in the year.
Nelius Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 I love McD but a current, potentially minor flaw is that this regime has definitely shown a tendency to stick with some fringe guys a bit longer than they should. There may be some bias from time to time. The Daboll-Foster connection for example? 1
GregPersons Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 41 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said: See you started out completely correct then went somewhere else. you know who does see him every day in practice? The coaches. Who decides who’s active on sunday? The coaches. So while you correctly point out that we don’t know, I will continue to trust the guys that have more info than me. Seriously most here seem more than willing to heap praise on McD except when it comes to this poor, poor 6th string receiver that can’t get a shot. Except he did get a shot earlier in the year. The coaching staff is human. They are not infallible. They are capable of making mistakes. Zay Jones. Kelvin Benjamin. NATHAN PETERMAN. They are capable of missing things. Sometimes it's because they're spending all day in practice with these guys. I'm sure Nathan Peterman is the nicest person on the planet. I'm sure he practices hard and is great in the classroom. That doesn't change the fact that ALL OF US -- coaches and fans alike -- are all looking at the same on-field product on Sundays. As fans, we don't need to have the same level of granular knowledge as the coaches do to see things like, Peterman isn't capable of starting in the NFL, or Zay Jones is not helping the offense by dropping half of his targets... Duke played very well in his one game appearance. He was the hero of that game. He seemed to be well-liked by his teammates in all of the stories that came out that week. He played well enough to make Zay Jones expendable. So, is Duke incapable of playing well again? What was so special about the Titans game that allowed Duke to play so far beyond his usual abilities then? Bottom line, here's my take. I'm not suggesting Duke is a secret All Pro being banished to the bench unfairly... I'm saying Duke is a big target who played well, and the Bills need a big target who can play well. The Bills' big targets are playing poorly. Dawson Knox is leading the league in drops. Tyler Kroft has been a complete non-factor. Lee Smith is not going to be the answer as a receiver. Maybe Duke would not do well as a TE. But have they tried? Would it hurt to try? We've been able to win plenty of games without Tyler Kroft active. Edited December 9, 2019 by GregPersons
Don Otreply Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 11 hours ago, Rc2catch said: just because he caught a few doesn’t mean he’s catching those balls today. He very well could have but it’s not a given. His history with the Bills says it’s a high probability
Rc2catch Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: His history with the Bills says it’s a high probability History? Guy has 6 catches in the NFL.
Don Otreply Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Rc2catch said: History? Guy has 6 catches in the NFL. ... in two games that he performed very well in, including a winning TD, but that should be discounted because of... no apparent reason... No one is saying he is JR, but hell man, he can body up a corner and catch a pass, it’s not like it isn’t obvious, Go Bills!!! Edited December 9, 2019 by Don Otreply
Hebert19 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 Robert's needs to sit. Let micah and McKenzie take returns and bring duke into lineup. I have to imagine if we had him in the redzone in final drive he would have been targeted at least once
John from Riverside Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 It would be different if duke was given a chance and didn’t produce thebgiy gets on the field and immediately scores a touchdown not to mention makes catches then bam back to the bench
Livinginthepast Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 23 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: It would be different if duke was given a chance and didn’t produce thebgiy gets on the field and immediately scores a touchdown not to mention makes catches then bam back to the bench Why has nobody on the Bills media beat ASKED McD and co point blank to justify this decision? He produced when he had the chance and then you mysteriously take that chance away with no apparent rationalization. If the people in place of Duke were playing better and scoring TDs or making those contested catches then fine, we don't need him. But they are simply not doing that. So why keep them active and Duke sitting?
Rocbillsfan1 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 58 minutes ago, Rc2catch said: History? Guy has 6 catches in the NFL. And that’s more than Robert foster for the entire 2019 season. What is wrong with you people. I’ve never seen so much bs tossed at a guy that has produced when given a chance and has a completely different skill set than the other wrs on the roster. We aren’t asking for the world for duke. All we are expecting is a stat line of 3 or 4 catches for 30-40 yards with a possible td and red zone threat from week to week. Any reasonable fan can see this from a mile away.
Rc2catch Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Rocbillsfan1 said: And that’s more than Robert foster for the entire 2019 season. What is wrong with you people. I’ve never seen so much bs tossed at a guy that has produced when given a chance and has a completely different skill set than the other wrs on the roster. We aren’t asking for the world for duke. All we are expecting is a stat line of 3 or 4 catches for 30-40 yards with a possible td and red zone threat from week to week. Any reasonable fan can see this from a mile away. You people? I’ve never said anything negative about duke or supported him being inactive. Not sure if you woke up on the wrong side of the bed lol.. All I said was him being on the field yesterday probably does not make a difference, not a knock on him more of a knock on Allen not finding receivers and some of the receivers dropping balls. No guarantees duke doesn’t drop the same balls Knox and Beasley drop. He has 6 catches its hard to say he’s not going to drop crucial catches as well or have bad penalties. But I don’t and never supported him being inactive for game days. Matter of fact I have wanted Yeldon and him active for weeks. They need everyone on deck for the offense Edited December 9, 2019 by Rc2catch
Alphadawg7 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, BananaB said: Foster has 3 catches on the season, it’s not hard to top that. Not sure what’s going on in practice but he is pretty much useless on the field. Duke has actually already topped Fosters season and has double the catches in just 3 games played and has a game winning TD to go with it. Edited December 9, 2019 by Alphadawg7
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