The fake kneel down before the half

[Scott7975]

I think it was classless and dumb.  Dumb because Harbaugh would be the first person bitching if he kneeled a ball and because of film... the opposing defense got aggressive knowing that he could run a play.  This is how players get hurt over dumb stuff.

[Your Brown Eye]

they're grown *** professional's, if they got okie-doked by such a play then that's on them 

[bobblehead]

Kinda hanging Jackson out to dry there. I’d want to think he was a little bent about having to run that.

 

like was mentioned a few times already.  This could come back to bite Baltimore in the future when they try it on someone like Gregg Williams 

Edited December 9, 2019 by bobblehead

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Your Brown Eye said:

they're grown *** professional's, if they got okie-doked by such a play then that's on them 

I wonder if everyone would be as forgiving if the defensive line randomly decided to cut block everyone on the oline on a kneeldown

[mannc]

44 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Teams do blitz kneel downs.

Nonsense.

[Alphadawg7]

15 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

The spike analogy is off base imo. A spike is an incomplete pass from the quarterback and performed in a specific circumstance, usually done with the expectation of further action as understood by both teams. It's a valid play to defend as the ball is snapped with the understanding that the play will involve the quarterback throwing a deliberate incompletion.

 

A kneel down is the QB giving himself up, which comes with a lot of additional protections. It's a gentleman's agreement NOT to rush and expose players to unnecessary injury in those situations because the expectation is that the QB is giving himself up and therefore there is no need to defend anything. It's certainly not illegal but there's a reason teams don't do it- it's unnecessarily dangerous and it isn't in good sportsmanship.

It’s the same thing.  The DL isn’t expected to come hard if the QB is signaling to set up for a spike.  Again, it’s the defenses job to be ready...period.  Everything else is just an excuse.  
 

End of game is different, but this was a love play.  Be ready or get burned, end of story.  

3 minutes ago, mannc said:

Nonsense.

Except it’s not, so there’s that too.  May not be common, but it’s happened a few times the last couple of years.

 

Then again, it’s pointless to discuss anyway, because this was NOT at the end of a game.

 

Every single one of you whining 100% would have loved this play if McD did it and scored off it.  

Edited December 9, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[GunnerBill]

24 minutes ago, Say When... said:

 

I remember Schiano doing it but then being grudge ****** out of it because it was bush and considered a player safety issue but with all the football i watch i haven't seen it since then.

 

if i were to be honest i think that's the only formation i'd consider 'protected' for many reasons but as @GunnerBill stated more importantly player, and potentially in this case the Refs safety (one almost got caught up in it).

 

if I'm tomlin, Kitchens, and whomever the 3rd team they play + playoffs i got 120% full out blitz and pile on Lamar, turnabout is fair play here.  what will be interesting is if there's late hit calls, hard part is actually seeing the knee hit and the whistle blow.

 

anyone hear a whistle on that play?  even the refs weren't prepared.

 

Yea Schiano is the only one I remember. And he got roundly criticised. And rightly so. You wanna run a play? Fine, run a play. But don't line up to kneel and run one. I think it risks player safety. 

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Every single one of you whining 100% would have loved this play if McD did it and scored off it.  

 

I promise you that I wouldn't. I love John Harbaugh. I'd hire him tomorrow and have long since argued he is 2nd only to Belichick in the league. But I think it was a bad move. 

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea Schiano is the only one I remember. And he got roundly criticised. And rightly so. You wanna run a play? Fine, run a play. But don't line up to kneel and run one. I think it risks player safety. 

BUT this was not the same thing...not end of a game.  
 

And these guys play a violent game, they are an injury risk every play.  So I find this injury excuse a bit silly.

 

Its a wide open game with time in the clock.  Be ready as a defense...period.  Anything else is being undisciplined and you deserve to be fooled.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea Schiano is the only one I remember. And he got roundly criticised. And rightly so. You wanna run a play? Fine, run a play. But don't line up to kneel and run one. I think it risks player safety. 

I wonder if these guys would be ok with opposing coaches telling their dline to cut every single offensive lineman when Ravens line up for kneeldowns...because play through the whistle right? lmao people defending this are just being contrary, it's like one of the best understood unwritten rules of pro football.

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea Schiano is the only one I remember. And he got roundly criticised. And rightly so. You wanna run a play? Fine, run a play. But don't line up to kneel and run one. I think it risks player safety. 

 

I promise you that I wouldn't. I love John Harbaugh. I'd hire him tomorrow and have long since argued he is 2nd only to Belichick in the league. But I think it was a bad move. 

I actually believe you Gunner, but you’re one of the few I would say that would say that.  

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

BUT this was not the same thing...not end of a game.  
 

And these guys play a violent game, they are an injury risk every play.  So I find this injury excuse a bit silly.

 

Its a wide open game with time in the clock.  Be ready as a defense...period.  Anything else is being undisciplined and you deserve to be fooled.

 

You risk safety far greater when the player you are hitting is defenseless. Indeed the rules of the game address that specifically. 

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I wonder if these guys would be ok with opposing coaches telling their dline to cut every single offensive lineman when Ravens line up for kneeldowns...because play through the whistle right? lmao people defending this are just being contrary, it's like one of the best understood unwritten rules of pro football.

You can’t separate end of game with end of half.  They are NOT the same play.  
 

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You risk safety far greater when the player you are hitting is defenseless. Indeed the rules of the game address that specifically. 

Dude, these guy battle on goal lines.  They aren’t defenseless unless they choose to be.  That’s their choice, and it’s a bad choice.

 

When did lineman become precious dolls that can’t handle contact?

Edited December 9, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Dude, these guy battle on goal lines.  They aren’t defenseless unless they choose to be.  That’s their choice, and it’s a bad choice.

 

When did lineman become precious dolls that can’t handle contact?

 

So let's not have kneel downs then. Let's outlaw them and say you have to run a play. I'd be fine with that. But one side contesting kneel downs when the other team isn't is dangerous. There is just no other word for it. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

You can’t separate end of game with end of half.  They are NOT the same play.  

It doesn't matter. The expectations are the same. 

 

I mean...are you seriously trying to say that if we were kneeling out the clock at halftime and Judon came through and blew out Dawkins' knee, well, that's on Dawkins because he wasn't 'being ready'? That guys are supposed to play through an obvious kneel down formation at all times? You're asking for penalties at best and injuries at worst.

 

Can't believe this is actually a discussion. I like Harbaugh ok but this was a bad look.

[Alphadawg7]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So let's not have kneel downs then. Let's outlaw them and say you have to run a play. I'd be fine with that. But one side contesting kneel downs when the other team isn't is dangerous. There is just no other word for it. 

Josh Allen fumbled the ball on 4th and 1 against Dallas.  Fumbled handoffs are rare like that but do happen.  If it’s a one score game, both teams should be playing hard on a kneel down as the QB could fumble the snap, especially if he fears pressure from the D.  It’s football, not patty cake.  
 

But end of half, the offense can and should be looking for any way to score still anyway.  Defense better be ready and the OL better be ready for the D to take the play seriously too.  Any player on that field not taking a play seriously is putting themselves in danger, that’s on them.  
 

Two score game, a kneel down at end of game should be a gentlemans walkoff.  But I’ve always found it silly to surrender down one score where a mistake can still happen.  

15 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

It doesn't matter. The expectations are the same. 

 

I mean...are you seriously trying to say that if we were kneeling out the clock at halftime and Judon came through and blew out Dawkins' knee, well, that's on Dawkins because he wasn't 'being ready'? That guys are supposed to play through an obvious kneel down formation at all times? You're asking for penalties at best and injuries at worst.

 

Can't believe this is actually a discussion. I like Harbaugh ok but this was a bad look.

So OL are somehow more fragile on a kneel down than on the goal line?  Come on man.  
 

This is football, not a tea party.  If you are on that field, you better be ready for contact at all times...period. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Josh Allen fumbled the ball on 4th and 1 against Dallas.  Fumbled handoffs are rare like that but do happen.  If it’s a one score game, both teams should be playing hard on a kneel down as the QB could fumble the snap, especially if he fears pressure from the D.  It’s football, not patty cake.  
 

But end of half, the offense can and should be looking for any way to score still anyway.  Defense better be ready and the OL better be ready for the D to take the play seriously too.  Any player on that field not taking a play seriously is putting themselves in danger, that’s on them.  
 

Two score game, a kneel down at end of game should be a gentlemans walkoff.  But I’ve always found it silly to surrender down one score where a mistake can still happen.  

Bro...you said earlier you can't compare a kneeldown at halftime to a kneeldown at full time and then proceed to compare a kneel down with a QB sneak on 4th and 1? Seriously? 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Bro...you said earlier you can't compare a kneeldown at halftime to a kneeldown at full time and then proceed to compare a kneel down with a QB sneak on 4th and 1? Seriously? 

 

 

I didn’t compare it, I mentioned it to show a QB can fumble while directly under center.  It happens.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I didn’t compare it, I mentioned it to show a QB can fumble while directly under center.  It happens.

Then come up with examples of fumbled snaps on kneel downs, not fumbled snaps on QB sneaks. Sorry but that's a crap argument.

[Alphadawg7]

19 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Then come up with examples of fumbled snaps on kneel downs, not fumbled snaps on QB sneaks. Sorry but that's a crap argument.

You are the one saying they don’t go all out on kneel downs at end of games.  So of course no fumbles really.  I’m saying if there was pressure it may happen more often. 
 

All good, we don’t have to keep going round and round.  Bottom line, this wasnt end of game, it was a legal play, and Ravens did nothing wrong.  BOTH teams should be lined up there ready to play a meaningful snap period.  
 

All this whining about a legal play is laughable to me.  Some of you act like this is a pop Warner game in a church.  Geezus, they are grown men playing a violent game for a lot of money.  No excuse to not be ready in a opportune time for the offense to try a trick play to increase odds of winning a game.  

Edited December 9, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Josh Allen fumbled the ball on 4th and 1 against Dallas.  Fumbled handoffs are rare like that but do happen.  If it’s a one score game, both teams should be playing hard on a kneel down as the QB could fumble the snap, especially if he fears pressure from the D.  It’s football, not patty cake.  
 

But end of half, the offense can and should be looking for any way to score still anyway.  Defense better be ready and the OL better be ready for the D to take the play seriously too.  Any player on that field not taking a play seriously is putting themselves in danger, that’s on them.  
 

Two score game, a kneel down at end of game should be a gentlemans walkoff.  But I’ve always found it silly to surrender down one score where a mistake can still happen. 

 

You may find it silly but that is the way it has been. You don't like the convention but that is a separate debate. The debate here is while it is a convention is it safe for one team to unilaterally ignore it. And the answer is no, it's not.