Alphadawg7 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 2 hours ago, GoBills808 said: Definitely NOT the same as spiking, spike is still a full blown play with the outcome in the balance. Victory formation is a gentleman's agreement and Harbaugh took it upon himself to piss all over it...would expect him to know better but guess not. Except you missed a key part. This was NOT in any way shape or form a victory formation. Can’t have a victory at halftime ? Game was nearing halftime, not the end of the game. I mean this isn’t a pop Warner game at a church. It was a close game and a battle...offense should take every opportunity to surprise for a big play to either score or get into scoring position to add some points before half. 1 1
GoBills808 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said: Except you missed a key part. This was NOT in any way shape or form a victory formation. Can’t have a victory at halftime ? Game was nearing halftime, not the end of the game. I mean this isn’t a pop Warner game at a church. It was a close game and a battle...offense should take every opportunity to surprise for a big play to either score or get into scoring position to add some points before half. Absolutely 100% victory formation
Alphadawg7 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: Absolutely 100% victory formation NOPE. You can’t have a Victory at halftime. It’s called “victory formation” when you’re kneeling to win. AT HALFTIME...you’re still doing everything you can to win. Sorry bud, you’re way out there on this one. All good Edited December 9, 2019 by Alphadawg7 1
IDBillzFan Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 20 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said: It only happened because McClappy ***** up on clock management yet again, calling the TO with 30 seconds left, then kicking the FG instead of going for it. That's all on McD. One thing you can count on after a Bills loss: the McClappy fans put down their sippy cup jump into action. 1
Freddie's Dead Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 Just now, IDBillzFan said: One thing you can count on after a Bills loss: the McClappy fans put down their sippy cup jump into action. I resemble that remark. I said this at the time in the GDT thread, so I put my sippy cup down during the game. If you're gonna insult me, get it right.
GoBills808 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: NOPE. You can’t have a Victory at halftime. It’s called “victory formation” when you’re kneeling to win. AT HALFTIME...you’re still doing everything you can to win. Sorry bud, you’re way out there on this one. All good I am using victory formation as interchangeable with kneel down. In such formations it's generally agreed upon there will be no rush to prevent unnecessary injury. 1
GunnerBill Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 22 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: This isn’t all directed at your reply, but others too. My question is why is it an issue? I mean it’s literally the entire job of the offense to fool the defense on every single play. That’s why you make sure your defense is alert and takes no plays off. If the offenses sees a chance to get a big play and maybe get a score or get into scoring position in a tight game, then they should do it. The complaining on this by so many is comical to me. If McD did this and we got an extra FG or a TD, and it was the difference in the game, everyone here would be crowning him COY. This reminds me of when people complained in 2007 that the Pats were scoring too much. You don’t like it, play better. These are grown men being paid a gazillion dollars to play a game and for the purpose of winning games. Fans get so sensitive as if it’s 8 year old kids playing out there. Bottom line: Don’t take plays off and you got nothing to worry about. Treat every play seriously. I mean this wasn’t a victory formation, the game was very much in question as it was only half time. You better be ready for fake spikes, fake kneels, fake punts, etc. Really shocked at the complaining on this play. Kudos to Harbaugh for trying to catch us sleeping and maybe steal a late score. Because the convention is that kneel downs are uncontested plays. If the offense can suddenly fake on a kneel down then why can't a defense suddenly blitz a kneel down and then you have players who are not set to protect themselves getting hit by 300lb guys. Then it is a player safety issue. I just think safety wise it is a dangerous precedent to set. 3
GoBills808 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Because the convention is that kneel downs are uncontested plays. If the offense can suddenly fake on a kneel down then why can't a defense suddenly blitz a kneel down and then you have players who are not set to protect themselves getting hit by 300lb guys. Then it is a player safety issue. I just think safety wise it is a dangerous precedent to set. I am certain you put 100 NFL players in a room 90 of em are going to say that is bush league stuff
GunnerBill Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I am certain you put 100 NFL players in a room 90 of em are going to say that is bush league stuff Agree. They are all for playing hard but not on a play where they are not set to protect themselves. That is how injuries happen. 1
Alphadawg7 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 57 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I am using victory formation as interchangeable with kneel down. In such formations it's generally agreed upon there will be no rush to prevent unnecessary injury. That’s victory formation at end of game. All bets are off when game is still in play. 52 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Because the convention is that kneel downs are uncontested plays. If the offense can suddenly fake on a kneel down then why can't a defense suddenly blitz a kneel down and then you have players who are not set to protect themselves getting hit by 300lb guys. Then it is a player safety issue. I just think safety wise it is a dangerous precedent to set. Teams do blitz kneel downs.
GoBills808 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 Just now, Alphadawg7 said: That’s victory formation at end of game. All bets are off when game is still in play. I'm sure I don't need to tell you that lining up w/8 men on LOS, no wideouts, two FB next to QB under center and HB 7 yards deep is known colloquially as the 'victory formation' regardless of when it may occur in the game.
GunnerBill Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Teams do blitz kneel downs. When?
Alphadawg7 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I'm sure I don't need to tell you that lining up w/8 men on LOS, no wideouts, two FB next to QB under center and HB 7 yards deep is known colloquially as the 'victory formation' regardless of when it may occur in the game. I’m sure I don’t have to tell you when lining up to spike the ball that the QB doesn’t actually have to spike the ball and it’s the defenders job to be ready for a fake too. I mean you gotta stop calling it a victory formation, it was not. ITS LITERALLY THE OFFENSES JOB TO CONEAL THE PLAY ON EVERY SINGLE SNAP OF FOOTBALL. (Not yelling, emphasizing). It’s the defenses job to be ready on every single play. Trick plays are fair game and their ability to work comes from NOT EXPECTING THEM. Its just ridiculous to whine about this. These are grown men playing a game for millions of dollars for a living. Again, all caps was not me yelling, just emphasizing those statements. It’s all good, but I totally disagree with the outrage on this play. It’s just silly. 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: When? You haven’t been paying attention. There were several incidents the last couple seasons. Edited December 9, 2019 by Alphadawg7
Reed83HOF Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 Had no problem with it, I hated leaving time on the clock that even allowed them a chance. I would have done the same damn thing
Boca BIlls Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 23 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Did not like that move by Harbaugh. By faking the kneel down you invite defenses to do start doing things like schiano’s buccaneers back in the day. It was a genius thing to do TBH. You are trying to win not play "friendship ball" Mike Tomlin has done similar things which is a sign of good Coaching. Edited December 9, 2019 by Boca BIlls
Say When... Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: You haven’t been paying attention. There were several incidents the last couple seasons. I remember Schiano doing it but then being grudge ****** out of it because it was bush and considered a player safety issue but with all the football i watch i haven't seen it since then. if i were to be honest i think that's the only formation i'd consider 'protected' for many reasons but as @GunnerBill stated more importantly player, and potentially in this case the Refs safety (one almost got caught up in it). if I'm tomlin, Kitchens, and whomever the 3rd team they play + playoffs i got 120% full out blitz and pile on Lamar, turnabout is fair play here. what will be interesting is if there's late hit calls, hard part is actually seeing the knee hit and the whistle blow. anyone hear a whistle on that play? even the refs weren't prepared.
Augie Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 23 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said: Legal but BUSH! Kinda reminds me of a certain coach in New England. Where’s the “legal” line? I’ll get as close as I can, and only step over it when I think you aren’t looking! . . Edited December 9, 2019 by Augie 1
GoBills808 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I’m sure I don’t have to tell you when lining up to spike the ball that the QB doesn’t actually have to spike the ball and it’s the defenders job to be ready for a fake too. I mean you gotta stop calling it a victory formation, it was not. ITS LITERALLY THE OFFENSES JOB TO CONEAL THE PLAY ON EVERY SINGLE SNAP OF FOOTBALL. (Not yelling, emphasizing). It’s the defenses job to be ready on every single play. Trick plays are fair game and their ability to work comes from NOT EXPECTING THEM. Its just ridiculous to whine about this. These are grown men playing a game for millions of dollars for a living. Again, all caps was not me yelling, just emphasizing those statements. It’s all good, but I totally disagree with the outrage on this play. It’s just silly. You haven’t been paying attention. There were several incidents the last couple seasons. The spike analogy is off base imo. A spike is an incomplete pass from the quarterback and performed in a specific circumstance, usually done with the expectation of further action as understood by both teams. It's a valid play to defend as the ball is snapped with the understanding that the play will involve the quarterback throwing a deliberate incompletion. A kneel down is the QB giving himself up, which comes with a lot of additional protections. It's a gentleman's agreement NOT to rush and expose players to unnecessary injury in those situations because the expectation is that the QB is giving himself up and therefore there is no need to defend anything. It's certainly not illegal but there's a reason teams don't do it- it's unnecessarily dangerous and it isn't in good sportsmanship.
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