How about MVP Lamar Jackson today?

[PolishDave]

On 12/8/2019 at 5:52 PM, JerseyBills said:

Still feel he's going to flame out within 3 years. He is awful at reading field, going through progressions. One read QB that also has play action as his crutch. 

 

Agreed.    If his legs fail him in a few years, his arm and pocket passing ability likely won't save his career.   My spidey senses tell me he will likely be a backup somewhere 5 years from now.  

[SoTier]

12 hours ago, Rob's House said:

 

I still don't get it.

 

If he'd just knocked off the Pats, or any other team for that matter, it would make a bit more sense.

 

Bills fans on a Bills board getting hot for the QB that just beat us is weird to me.

 

You "still don't get it" because you refuse to even try ... or you live under a rock and only come out to watch the Bills play so you are totally ignorant of what's going on in the rest of the NFL.   Denying that Lamar Jackson is a great player and that the Baltimore Ravens are among the very best teams in the NFL isn't going to make Josh Allen and the Bills better.

 

FYI, since week 4, the Ravens haven't lost a game and won 9 straight games, including wins over the 8-5 Steelers, 10-3 Seahawks,  1.20-3 Patriots,  8-5 Texans,  8-5 Rams, 11-2 Niners, and 9-4 Bills  -- seven teams with winning records, six of which are currently in playoff slots.  Jackson has been instrumental in all those wins, some of which were major blowouts of their opponents.  

 

FTR, Jackson is a better QB than Allen.  Jackson's passing stats are significantly better than Allen's:   66.3% completions, 28 passing TDs, 6 INTs,  2677 yards, 109.2 passer rating versus 59.8% completions, 17 passing TDs, 8 INTs, 2737 yards, 85.8 passer rating.  Jackson has rushed for 1017 yards. 6.7 AVG,  and 7 TDs -- good for 9th most rushing yards -- while Allen has rushed for 439 yards, 4.6 AVG, and 8 TDs.

 

If you can't appreciate the special talent that great young QBs like Lamar Jackson or Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson bring to the game, then you aren't a football fan.  You're simply a jealous Bills fan who has to tear down other players to pretend that the Bills lesser talents are "just as good".

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 hours ago, Rob's House said:

 

I still don't get it.

 

If he'd just knocked off the Pats, or any other team for that matter, it would make a bit more sense.

 

Bills fans on a Bills board getting hot for the QB that just beat us is weird to me.

 

You need to look at the history of those posters.  Just sayin'

[SoTier]

50 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

 

Agreed.    If his legs fail him in a few years, his arm and pocket passing ability likely won't save his career.   My spidey senses tell me he will likely be a backup somewhere 5 years from now.  

 

This is the same thing some savants said about Russell Wilson back in 2012 and 2013.

 

More importantly, Jackson is already a significantly better passing QB than Josh Allen, so if Jackson's doomed to be a backup if he can't run where does that leave Allen whether he can run or not?

[WeSmashPeons]

7 hours ago, PolishDave said:

 

Agreed.    If his legs fail him in a few years, his arm and pocket passing ability likely won't save his career.   My spidey senses tell me he will likely be a backup somewhere 5 years from now.  

interestingly enough I think Josh Allen will be a STAR..............in the XFL as running back because he is terrible playing the QB position.

22 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

with the help of the refs not calling 12 men in the huddle 

 

say what you will. That non call backs up the Ravens and could have kept them from scoring a TD.   
 

 

yeah that wasn't half as bad as the gifted 50 yards or so the refs gave the bills on that final drive but feel free to console yourself with wishful thinking if it helps you sleep better at night. 

7 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

This is the same thing some savants said about Russell Wilson back in 2012 and 2013.

 

More importantly, Jackson is already a significantly better passing QB than Josh Allen, so if Jackson's doomed to be a backup if he can't run where does that leave Allen whether he can run or not?

good point. I think the Difference between the two if you look at their track records, Lamar put up big numbers in college against top competition while Josh Allen played practically low level competition. Also Lamar played in a pro style offense in college which has clearly helped his learning curve in the NFL.

[WeSmashPeons]

7 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

You "still don't get it" because you refuse to even try ... or you live under a rock and only come out to watch the Bills play so you are totally ignorant of what's going on in the rest of the NFL.   Denying that Lamar Jackson is a great player and that the Baltimore Ravens are among the very best teams in the NFL isn't going to make Josh Allen and the Bills better.

 

FYI, since week 4, the Ravens haven't lost a game and won 9 straight games, including wins over the 8-5 Steelers, 10-3 Seahawks,  1.20-3 Patriots,  8-5 Texans,  8-5 Rams, 11-2 Niners, and 9-4 Bills  -- seven teams with winning records, six of which are currently in playoff slots.  Jackson has been instrumental in all those wins, some of which were major blowouts of their opponents.  

 

FTR, Jackson is a better QB than Allen.  Jackson's passing stats are significantly better than Allen's:   66.3% completions, 28 passing TDs, 6 INTs,  2677 yards, 109.2 passer rating versus 59.8% completions, 17 passing TDs, 8 INTs, 2737 yards, 85.8 passer rating.  Jackson has rushed for 1017 yards. 6.7 AVG,  and 7 TDs -- good for 9th most rushing yards -- while Allen has rushed for 439 yards, 4.6 AVG, and 8 TDs.

 

If you can't appreciate the special talent that great young QBs like Lamar Jackson or Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson bring to the game, then you aren't a football fan.  You're simply a jealous Bills fan who has to tear down other players to pretend that the Bills lesser talents are "just as good".

Very well said and 100% accurate!

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

23 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Yeah maybe.  Or maybe it wouldn't have to come down to too many men in a huddle not called....

 

23 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Poyer roasted again...

it was costly but he had 1 missed assignment.  

 

 

Another John Wawrow writeup 
 

https://wben.radio.com/articles/ap-news/buffalo-bills-gain-respect-despite-loss-to-ravens

The Bills no longer resemble the inept franchise with a revolving door of coaches, general managers and quarterbacks that muddled through a 17-year playoff drought before coach Sean McDermott and general manager Brandon Beane’s arrival in 2017.

 

Just as important, Buffalo is also showing it’s better than the team that spent the first half of the season padding its record because of a soft schedule.

 

What stood out in the loss to the AFC-leading Ravens was how the Bills didn’t look out of place in a game not decided until Josh Allen’s pass to John Brown on fourth down was broken up at the goal line with 63 seconds left.

 

While the offense had difficulty handling the blitz-happy Ravens, Buffalo’s defense drew praise for limiting the dynamic Lamar Jackson-led attack to a season-low 257 yards and forcing seven punts from a team that had punted just 24 times in its first 12 games.

 

 

this close |    |   
 

[PolishDave]

9 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

This is the same thing some savants said about Russell Wilson back in 2012 and 2013.

 

More importantly, Jackson is already a significantly better passing QB than Josh Allen, so if Jackson's doomed to be a backup if he can't run where does that leave Allen whether he can run or not?

 

You might be right about Lamar being the next Russel Wilson.  Time will tell.    I just don't think Lamar is anywhere near the quality of a passer that Wilson is.   And I don't think he ever will be.  

 

To me Lamar seems like an elite running quarterback with mediocre passing abilities.   Those exceptional running capabilities are what allow him to be in positions to pass the ball more effectively right now.    I think that opponents will learn to contain him and limit his running ability.   In addition to that I think that the extra abuse his body will take from running the ball too often will add up.   Eventually his coaches will try to make him a pocket passer - just like the coaches here did with Tyrod.   When that happens, I suspect the NFL will see a rapid decline in opinion about how good of a quarterback Lamar Jackson is.   

 

But I could be wrong.   It's just an opinion.

 

P.S.  What does Allen have to do with whether or not Lamar Jackson is going to be a great quarterback?

Edited December 11, 2019 by PolishDave

[Elite Poster]

On 12/9/2019 at 10:04 AM, ILBillsfan said:

Well it want a bomb it was a fifteen yard pass blown coverages assignment.  The book is still there you make him throw outside the hash marks and not to the middle.   
 

Nice way to over paint that play

 

So if the book was out, how did the bills give up 180 yards of offense and 3 TD? This is the same defense that shut down Brady and Dak.

 

Lamar will lead the league in passing TDs and people will still sit on their asses at home telling the world they know exactly how to stop him. It's a joke. 

[DuckyBoys]

Jackson is doing it in a non traditional way  Maybe the future of the nfl is going to be option style football,  He's on a higher level but others have played in similar fashion and they didnt sustain it so time will tell.

[LSHMEAB]

On 12/8/2019 at 3:50 PM, GunnerBill said:

Agree. He can beat you from the pocket when the RPO and the traditional play action is working. But when you get him into obvious passing 3rd and longs and make him play dropback Quarterback...

Getting that offense into third and long is the key to stopping them. You could say that about any offense, but it's especially true in their case. The Bills did well on 1st and 2nd down and the run D was solid overall.

 

It's easier said than done because of that RPO and the scheme Roman has created. They haven't found themselves in 3rd and long situations very often, so they're pretty good at avoiding them. 

 

Bills defense did a good job, but the notion that LJ has been "figured out" is ludicrous.

Edited December 11, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Getting that offense into third and long is the key to stopping them. You could say that about any offense, but it's especially true in their case. The Bills did well on 1st and 2nd down and the run D was solid overall.

 

It's easier said than done because of that RPO and the scheme Roman has created. They haven't found themselves in 3rd and long situations very often, so they're pretty good at avoiding them. 

 

Bills defense did a good job, but the notion that LJ has been "figured out" is ludicrous.

 

I think figured out in the sense there is a way to slow him. Nobody has yet found a way to stop him. The Bills did a good job - get them into third and long, stack the middle of the field and make Lamar play traditional drop back and throw to the outside more. It was a good plan. Well executed save for one communication breakdown between our two most reliable guys. We held Baltimore to season lows in a number of offensive categories. And yet Lamar threw 3 touchdowns and the Ravens won the game. In order to have truly figured a team out you have to stop that.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think figured out in the sense there is a way to slow him. Nobody has yet found a way to stop him. The Bills did a good job - get them into third and long, stack the middle of the field and make Lamar play traditional drop back and throw to the outside more. It was a good plan. Well executed save for one communication breakdown between our two most reliable guys. We held Baltimore to season lows in a number of offensive categories. And yet Lamar threw 3 touchdowns and the Ravens won the game. In order to have truly figured a team out you have to stop that.  

 

No QB is unstoppable.  Not the good ones and even the bad ones on occasion. 

 

IMO (observations) In many NFL games there is always that ONE big play that is made.  Sometimes it gets points and some times it doesn't.  

Unfortunately that one cost the Bills 7 points.  

 

 

Lamar Jackson says he's noticed defenses going for his legs '9 times out of 10' in the pocket

https://sports.yahoo.com/lamar-jackson-ravens-defenses-hits-gregg-williams-000843783.html

 

As Lamar Jackson and the Baltimore Ravens continue to rip through the league’s defenses, you can imagine defenses are just going to respond by just trying to hit harder. And possibly lower, if what the quarterback has noticed is true.

 

Limited in practice with a quad injury for the second straight day on Tuesday, Jackson confirmed he will play in the Ravens’ Thursday Night Football game against the New York Jets. When asked if opponents had been hitting him lower in the last two games, he had some interesting things to say.

 

“Yeah, they have, a lot more and especially when I’m inside the pocket and stuff like that,” Jackson said. “When I’m out on the edge, I kinda avoid it all the time. When I’m in the pocket trying to complete a throw, that’s when 9 times out of 10 they go for my legs. I can’t do anything about, I’m trying to complete that pass. It is what it is.”

 

Cry us a river 

 

Don't move so fast Lamar and they can hit you high!!!! 

That is one hell of a pocket there ^      (insert Red Forman's catch phrase) 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Ravens film study: After a limited ground game vs. Bills, linemen have good reason to be upset with officiating

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-ravens-bills-film-study-20191211-vvencm6xujfn3nrm6ftrkjvs6e-story.html

 

The Ravens offense opened Sunday’s game against the Buffalo Bills with a 3-yard carry up the gut by running back Mark Ingram II, an unmemorable play in an unmemorable day for the team’s top-ranked ground game.

In the aftermath of the Ravens’ 24-17 win at New Era Field, their ninth straight overall and a playoff berth-clinching result, the run mattered less than cornerback Marcus Peters’ decisive fourth-quarter deflection or any of the defense’s six sacks or tight end Hayden Hurst’s 61-yard catch-and-run score. But the play did serve in part to explain the Ravens’ ground-game struggles.

In one short-lived inside rush, there was a missed opportunity out wide, solid execution by the Bills and a noncall along the offensive line. It’s not fair to say that, in holding quarterback Lamar Jackson and the Ravens to a season-low 118 yards on 3.6 yards per carry, Buffalo solved the Ravens’ rushing attack. With Jackson’s rushing threat, the Ravens, more often than not, will always have a numerical advantage at the line of scrimmage.

 

But the offense can and should grow from a day in which it finished with as many rushing first downs (six) as three-and-outs. The Ravens will need Jackson and offensive coordinator Greg Roman to make wiser in-game decisions. They’ll need to figure out countermeasures against defenses as consistent as the Bills and San Francisco 49ers. Maybe most importantly, they’ll need officials to learn from previous mistakes

 

Cry us a river part two   

[Rick 'r Mortis]

23 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

You "still don't get it" because you refuse to even try ... or you live under a rock and only come out to watch the Bills play so you are totally ignorant of what's going on in the rest of the NFL.   Denying that Lamar Jackson is a great player and that the Baltimore Ravens are among the very best teams in the NFL isn't going to make Josh Allen and the Bills better.

 

FYI, since week 4, the Ravens haven't lost a game and won 9 straight games, including wins over the 8-5 Steelers, 10-3 Seahawks,  1.20-3 Patriots,  8-5 Texans,  8-5 Rams, 11-2 Niners, and 9-4 Bills  -- seven teams with winning records, six of which are currently in playoff slots.  Jackson has been instrumental in all those wins, some of which were major blowouts of their opponents.  

 

FTR, Jackson is a better QB than Allen.  Jackson's passing stats are significantly better than Allen's:   66.3% completions, 28 passing TDs, 6 INTs,  2677 yards, 109.2 passer rating versus 59.8% completions, 17 passing TDs, 8 INTs, 2737 yards, 85.8 passer rating.  Jackson has rushed for 1017 yards. 6.7 AVG,  and 7 TDs -- good for 9th most rushing yards -- while Allen has rushed for 439 yards, 4.6 AVG, and 8 TDs.

 

If you can't appreciate the special talent that great young QBs like Lamar Jackson or Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson bring to the game, then you aren't a football fan.  You're simply a jealous Bills fan who has to tear down other players to pretend that the Bills lesser talents are "just as good".

Spot on.

 

100%.

[SoTier]

17 hours ago, WeSmashPeons said:

Good point. I think the Difference between the two if you look at their track records, Lamar put up big numbers in college against top competition while Josh Allen played practically low level competition. Also Lamar played in a pro style offense in college which has clearly helped his learning curve in the NFL.

 

I think that Josh Allen can certainly be a successful NFL QB, perhaps even a QB who leads the Bills to one or more Super Bowls.  I simply don't think he's as talented as Lamar who is a very special talent.  That's not a knock on Allen, it's just a recognition of how good Jackson is.

 

14 hours ago, PolishDave said:

 

You might be right about Lamar being the next Russel Wilson.  Time will tell.    I just don't think Lamar is anywhere near the quality of a passer that Wilson is.   And I don't think he ever will be.  

 

To me Lamar seems like an elite running quarterback with mediocre passing abilities.   Those exceptional running capabilities are what allow him to be in positions to pass the ball more effectively right now.    I think that opponents will learn to contain him and limit his running ability.   In addition to that I think that the extra abuse his body will take from running the ball too often will add up.   Eventually his coaches will try to make him a pocket passer - just like the coaches here did with Tyrod.   When that happens, I suspect the NFL will see a rapid decline in opinion about how good of a quarterback Lamar Jackson is.   

 

But I could be wrong.   It's just an opinion.

 

P.S.  What does Allen have to do with whether or not Lamar Jackson is going to be a great quarterback?

 

I was simply pointing out that many Bills fans are using a double standard when predicting the futures of both Jackson and Allen.   Except for yards, Jackson has significantly  better passing stats than Allen, yet Bills fans keep touting Allen as a future franchise QB while claiming that Jackson is only a mediocre passer despite his having a QB rating of 109.2 over 13 games while Allen's QB rating is 85.8 over that same number of games.   The only regular starting QBs with better QB ratings than Jackson are Ryan Tannehill, Kirk Cousins, and Drew Brees plus rookie Drew Lock who has had only 3 starts.  Jackson's 7.7 yards per attempt puts him ahead of future HOF QBs Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers, and is within the usual YPA expected of top passers (8.5-7.5 ypa).  I think Jackson is much more than a mediocre passer at this point in his career, and probably has a much higher ceiling than any of his critics think.  

 

OTOH Allen has very statistically mediocre passing stats, although that doesn't mean that he's doomed.  He started far behind the other QBs in his draft class because he suffered from poor coaching in college, and the Bills didn't help him much as a rookie by not providing him with a competent, experienced QB coach or an NFL caliber OL and receiving corps last season. His improvement since last season has been spectacular, and he's continued to improve throughout this season, especially when it comes to his decision making.  I think Allen still has a lot of untapped potential that the Bills can help him realize by providing him with upgrades to the OL, RBs, and receivers (both WRs and TEs).  Allen really needs a big, fast sure-handed receiver as well as more commitment by the OC to the running game (which means that the Bills NEED better RBs than Gore and Yeldon).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WeSmashPeons]

13 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

Ravens film study: After a limited ground game vs. Bills, linemen have good reason to be upset with officiating

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-ravens-bills-film-study-20191211-vvencm6xujfn3nrm6ftrkjvs6e-story.html

 

The Ravens offense opened Sunday’s game against the Buffalo Bills with a 3-yard carry up the gut by running back Mark Ingram II, an unmemorable play in an unmemorable day for the team’s top-ranked ground game.

In the aftermath of the Ravens’ 24-17 win at New Era Field, their ninth straight overall and a playoff berth-clinching result, the run mattered less than cornerback Marcus Peters’ decisive fourth-quarter deflection or any of the defense’s six sacks or tight end Hayden Hurst’s 61-yard catch-and-run score. But the play did serve in part to explain the Ravens’ ground-game struggles.

In one short-lived inside rush, there was a missed opportunity out wide, solid execution by the Bills and a noncall along the offensive line. It’s not fair to say that, in holding quarterback Lamar Jackson and the Ravens to a season-low 118 yards on 3.6 yards per carry, Buffalo solved the Ravens’ rushing attack. With Jackson’s rushing threat, the Ravens, more often than not, will always have a numerical advantage at the line of scrimmage.

 

But the offense can and should grow from a day in which it finished with as many rushing first downs (six) as three-and-outs. The Ravens will need Jackson and offensive coordinator Greg Roman to make wiser in-game decisions. They’ll need to figure out countermeasures against defenses as consistent as the Bills and San Francisco 49ers. Maybe most importantly, they’ll need officials to learn from previous mistakes

 

Cry us a river part two   

you seem oddly obsessed with the Baltimore Ravens,  a team not in your division, a team that soundly beat you in your house like it was nothing, and your are reading Baltimore newspapers just to get your own personal bulletin board material. The Ravens beat up the bills, not because the bills are a terrible team, but because the Ravens are a superior team on all facets. Maybe cry about that.?

[WeSmashPeons]

10 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

I think that Josh Allen can certainly be a successful NFL QB, perhaps even a QB who leads the Bills to one or more Super Bowls.  I simply don't think he's as talented as Lamar who is a very special talent.  That's not a knock on Allen, it's just a recognition of how good Jackson is.

I agree 100% No one is knocking Allen, he had a bad game, every single QB in NFL history has had several bad games over their career, it's nothing to take personal or as a slight when that bad game is acknowledged, but fans of every team goes overboard on the reactions. Allen is a 2nd year QB on a team definitely going to the playoffs and a great team record, that's a pretty bright future no matter how you look at it, especially with that smoking Defense them boys are BEASTS! That game actually made me apprecieate Lamar Jackson even more, cause that's as good as it gets on Defense and he did exceptionally well considering he is a 22 year old in his first full season as starter. it was a great fukn game minus the piss poor officiating and I would LOVE a rematch in the playoffs.

10 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

I was simply pointing out that many Bills fans are using a double standard when predicting the futures of both Jackson and Allen.   Except for yards, Jackson has significantly  better passing stats than Allen, yet Bills fans keep touting Allen as a future franchise QB while claiming that Jackson is only a mediocre passer despite his having a QB rating of 109.2 over 13 games while Allen's QB rating is 85.8 over that same number of games.   The only regular starting QBs with better QB ratings than Jackson are Ryan Tannehill, Kirk Cousins, and Drew Brees plus rookie Drew Lock who has had only 3 starts.  Jackson's 7.7 yards per attempt puts him ahead of future HOF QBs Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers, and is within the usual YPA expected of top passers (8.5-7.5 ypa).  I think Jackson is much more than a mediocre passer at this point in his career, and probably has a much higher ceiling than any of his critics think.  

 

OTOH Allen has very statistically mediocre passing stats, although that doesn't mean that he's doomed.  He started far behind the other QBs in his draft class because he suffered from poor coaching in college, and the Bills didn't help him much as a rookie by not providing him with a competent, experienced QB coach or an NFL caliber OL and receiving corps last season. His improvement since last season has been spectacular, and he's continued to improve throughout this season, especially when it comes to his decision making.  I think Allen still has a lot of untapped potential that the Bills can help him realize by providing him with upgrades to the OL, RBs, and receivers (both WRs and TEs).  Allen really needs a big, fast sure-handed receiver as well as more commitment by the OC to the running game (which means that the Bills NEED better RBs than Gore and Yeldon).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[billrooter]

On 12/8/2019 at 5:55 PM, GunnerBill said:

Oh and Russell Wilson is the MVP. If he doesn't win it then it is a scandal. 

  Jackson now has over a thousand rushing yards and 33 TDs and six picks, you still think RW is winning the MVP, oh and he is on the best team in the NFL with wins over a lot of playoff teams already?

[Matt_In_NH]

How many 5 td passing games do the bills have in their history?