Mr. WEO Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 15 hours ago, ToGoGo said: People keep saying that to me and it's false. It's the 4th game I've seen, and I don't normally watch 4 games of the Ravens in a typical regular season. I stick by it, he's a great read-option QB. He will flame out as teams learn to counteract their deception behind the line. Lots of teams have had their shot to do so---including the 3 top NFL Defenses in the past 6 weeks. Why haven't the best Defenses "learned to counteract the deception yet"? What, exactly, are they waiting for? 1
atlbillsfan1975 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cripple Creek said: Watching yesterday it looked to me like Allen was unprepared for the blitzes that Baltimore was sending his way. I guess he is at his ceiling too. No he is not. Jackson’s OC is great at scheming for a running quarterback who struggles reading defenses and going through progressions. Allen has Daboll. Brown called Daboll’s offense is most complex he has ever been apart of. From everything I know about the NFL and the game of football from watching it for 40 years and playing for a good bit, Jackson will need to be able to grow into a different style to have longevity. If he does not he is at his ceiling. It can happen, Mike Vick had some success later in his career with Andy Reid. Another great offensive mind. what is your agenda? You think wins mask everything? Did you watch the game and saw Jackson’s TD passes? Teams are figuring him out. Lamar hasn’t shown he can throw to the outside to WR’s consistently. Good defensive coaches with the players will turn him into what we saw yesterday. Edited December 9, 2019 by atlbillsfan1975
Rampage Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 2 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said: He had a bad game and still threw 3 TD’s. Humble yourself! His “bad game” still gives his team a chance to win. Allen’s bad game makes it almost impossible. 1
GunnerBill Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 27 minutes ago, pop gun said: This would absolutely be a home run. Jay Gruden is a really really good offensive coordinator, light years better than Dumbell! I agree Jay Gruden is a better OC than Daboll.... but that is a not insignificant scheme change as Josh goes into a crucial third year. I'm not mad on that idea.
without a drought Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 if you want to dismiss thoughts of Jackson being a MVP candidate, I guess we should also dismiss the thoughts of Allen being a franchise QB. 1
LJs Bodyguard Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 15 hours ago, Rc2catch said: Then why has Roman been ran out of every job he’s had? He has a great playbook but he quickly runs out of options to expand it. San Francisco GM was dumb to let personal feelings get in the way when he fired Jim Harbaugh and the entire coaching staff. Rex fired him in week 2 of a season after the offense scores 31 pts....? Those 2 cases were completely out of Greg Roman's control.
ILBillsfan Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 three TD’s yeah we contained him too bad it was a diff story when they got down inside the ten. He is pretty tough to defend down there 32 minutes ago, Rampage said: His “bad game” still gives his team a chance to win. Allen’s bad game makes it almost impossible. That’s funny thought the Bills had a chance to win yesterday even w a bad Josh game
Jrb1979 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 15 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: This. Lotta nancies out today. Shameful. What's so shameful? We all should be happy with 9-4? Allen and the offense didn't have a good game. Its like you can't criticize the Bills and you have to be a big Homer like Murph is. 1
SoTier Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 15 hours ago, ToGoGo said: We made him look pretty ordinary. Someone in the 2nd half thread said he is a great read-option QB, nothing more, and I agree. He looked lost when Andrews went out of the game, and kept throwing to the backup TE who fortunately for them is a good football player. Hopefully, the book on him is now out. Don't fall for the ball trickery, set the edge, don't overpursue, and eliminate the TE's. Force him to throw long into tight coverage. Jackson threw 3 TD passes against the Bills top rated pass offense, including a beautiful 61-yard bomb to Haden Hurst. It seems to me that that creates a new "book" on Jackson: if you stop Jackson as a runner, he can still beat you with his arm. 1 1
Elite Poster Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 180 total yards and 3 TDs against a very, very tough defense. Allen does that and it's a gold jacket celebration here. 2
ILBillsfan Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 17 minutes ago, SoTier said: Jackson threw 3 TD passes against the Bills top rated pass offense, including a beautiful 61-yard bomb to Haden Hurst. It seems to me that that creates a new "book" on Jackson: if you stop Jackson as a runner, he can still beat you with his arm. Well it want a bomb it was a fifteen yard pass blown coverages assignment. The book is still there you make him throw outside the hash marks and not to the middle. Nice way to over paint that play
SoTier Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 48 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: No he is not. Jackson’s OC is great at scheming for a running quarterback who struggles reading defenses and going through progressions. Allen has Daboll. Brown called Daboll’s offense is most complex he has ever been apart of. From everything I know about the NFL and the game of football from watching it for 40 years and playing for a good bit, Jackson will need to be able to grow into a different style to have longevity. If he does not he is at his ceiling. It can happen, Mike Vick had some success later in his career with Andy Reid. Another great offensive mind. what is your agenda? You think wins mask everything? Did you watch the game and saw Jackson’s TD passes? Teams are figuring him out. Lamar hasn’t shown he can throw to the outside to WR’s consistently. Good defensive coaches with the players will turn him into what we saw yesterday. Point 1 - We don't know if Allen or Jackson are at their "ceilings" yet. At some point in the future, we should be able to determine that they are, but at present they are both second year QBs who've made excellent progress. In fact, they have both made excellent progress as second year starters, but Jackson's progress has been spectacular. Point 2 - What we saw yesterday was a 2nd year QB who threw three TD passes to power his team to a win in a game when the defense limited the Ravens' running game to about 120 yards and another 2nd year QB who struggled against a fierce and persistent pass rush. Point 3 - The Ravens don't have outstanding WRs, but they have a bevy of outstanding TEs. They regularly use 3 TE sets as opposed to 3 WR sets. Is that offense viable long term? Maybe not but so far, no team has been really successful in shutting them down ... and yeah, winning masks everything.
LJs Bodyguard Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 Well, for the title of this thread...the MVP race between Lamar Jackson and Russell Wilson is no longer even close at this point. Lamar Jackson stats through 13 games: 109.2 QBR, 2677 Pass Yds, 28 Pass TDs, 6 INTs, 1017 Rush Yds, 7 Rush TDs, 3694 Total yds, 35 Total TDs Russell Wilson stats through 13 games: 107.2 QBR, 3422 Pass Yds, 26 Pass TDs, 5 INTs, 312 Rush Yds, 3 Rush TDs, 3734 Total yds, 29 Total TDs Total yardage and QBR is about even, but Lamar is ahead by 6 total TDs, plus the fact that Lamar went into Russell's own house and beat him. People love to ignore stats. He is simply the front runner because he has the best overall stats so far this season.
Ramza86 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 Had made the right throws and he was decent with accuracy. What else can you ask for from a dual threat qb. 1
HeHateMe Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 16 hours ago, ToGoGo said: I don't think he lived up to the hype at all. 3 TDs is nice, but I didn't see the unstoppable force everybody was claiming he was the past 10 days on this board. I mean if Josh just played vs our D on the road and put up 3 TDs and won the game, everyone on this board would be caking their pants. 1
row_33 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 he walked out with a W from a tough road game sorry if he didn't get enough style points from you apparently he believes you can take you style points and shove them 1
Scott7975 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 56 minutes ago, SoTier said: Jackson threw 3 TD passes against the Bills top rated pass offense, including a beautiful 61-yard bomb to Haden Hurst. It seems to me that that creates a new "book" on Jackson: if you stop Jackson as a runner, he can still beat you with his arm. This is the kind of stuff I can’t stand. What beautiful 61 yard bomb? You mean the one where Poyer was confused and covered the wrong TE while hurst ran completely free for 50 yards of it after catching the ball? That beautiful 10-15 yard bomb? Anyone on this board could have made that pass as long as they had one functional arm. I hate taking stuff away from Lamar. His team won the game. But he played just as bad as Josh yet the narrative is he played like an mvp and josh was garbage. That’s what drives me nuts Edited December 9, 2019 by Scott7975 1
Mr. WEO Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 23 minutes ago, LJs Bodyguard said: Well, for the title of this thread...the MVP race between Lamar Jackson and Russell Wilson is no longer even close at this point. Lamar Jackson stats through 13 games: 109.2 QBR, 2677 Pass Yds, 28 Pass TDs, 6 INTs, 1017 Rush Yds, 7 Rush TDs, 3694 Total yds, 35 Total TDs Russell Wilson stats through 13 games: 107.2 QBR, 3422 Pass Yds, 26 Pass TDs, 5 INTs, 312 Rush Yds, 3 Rush TDs, 3734 Total yds, 29 Total TDs Total yardage and QBR is about even, but Lamar is ahead by 6 total TDs, plus the fact that Lamar went into Russell's own house and beat him. People love to ignore stats. He is simply the front runner because he has the best overall stats so far this season. Include yourself in that group. You ignored this one: Ravens Defense: 5th/6th in points and yards allowed Seahawks Defense: 22nd/27th. There's a full TD difference to overcome between Wilson's team and Jackson. It's closer than you think 1
Mr. WEO Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 1 hour ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: Mike Vick had some success later in his career with Andy Reid. Another great offensive mind. what is your agenda? You think wins mask everything? Did you watch the game and saw Jackson’s TD passes? Teams are figuring him out. Lamar hasn’t shown he can throw to the outside to WR’s consistently. Good defensive coaches with the players will turn him into what we saw yesterday. The three best "defensive coaches with the players" have lost all 3 games to the Ravens, who have average 27 ppg against them. Vick's "ceiling" was that he was a terrible passer and couldn't hit the water from a boat--not hard to scheme against that. Jackson has completed 66% of his passes this year. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 11 hours ago, Ravensfan0911 said: Ravens fan here. I came here here because I was curious what opposing fans thought of Lamar jackson. I have to admit I’m a little surprised at the disrespect. i understand the hype around Jackson is over blown but people who call him a one read “limited” QB don’t know football or haven’t watched him this year and are regurgitating old draft talk. he wasn’t great today but he was playing a great defence on the road. He made some plays and his team beat a 9-3 playoff team on the road. He’s a legit MVP candidate. He’s made plays with his arm and legs. If he’s not an mvp candidate who is??? Russell Wilson? Terrible game against the rams tonight. By many people’s logic on here he’s out of contention.... Watson ..... blown out by Denver at home..... mahomes? Maybe but he hasn’t played any better than Jackson this year. Too much stock is being put into 1 game. Show me an MVP who hasn’t had a bad game... anyway my thoughts on the bills are they are a really good team and absolutely no one wants to play them in the playoffs. Great defense which will travel well in January. Josh Allen will work his way into being a top 10 QB before long good game and hopefully we don’t see you again I hope you do see us again I agree with you that Jackson is a legit MVP candidate. Both QB IMHO were flummoxed and stymied by the defense. Lamar won because he was a few good plays less stymied and more willing to take what he was given. We're waiting to see what's up with Josh's sprained ankle but that may have been a huge factor for you in shutting down his run game (it was our center who injured it getting pushed back and stepping on it) If you haven't, go to the Buffalobills.com site and watch Allen's presser from last week before the game. He fields pounds of questions about Lamar. Anyway, at one point some goon tries to stir up controversy asking him about being a nobody from Firebaugh that even Fresno didn't want vs the Heisman trophy winner star. Josh shoots back to the effect that it's BS: "No one annointed Lamar or said he was the guy, he was doubted until he started making plays and proved people wrong and having had some of the same path it's been awesome to watch" You'll enjoy it, Allen came across as totally sincere. Here the point I'm talking about is about 10 minutes in. But it's a lot of "Lamar" in the whole thing. https://www.buffalobills.com/video/josh-allen-a-lot-of-work-to-be-done What you're going to see here and elsewhere though, is the side effect of that "not annointed the guy" phenomenon. Let Lamar (or Allen) have a game where he looks limited or bad, and the doubters come out in force and numbers. We see that on this board wrt Allen after every loss or even a win if he doesn't look as good as expected.
Recommended Posts