Buffalo Junction Posted December 14, 2019 Posted December 14, 2019 This is why Roberts is on the roster... 1
Saxum Posted December 14, 2019 Posted December 14, 2019 On 12/8/2019 at 5:45 PM, Warcodered said: Didn't he have the 3rd most return yards going into this game? I mean he hasn't had a homerun yet but he's been consistently good. Returning yards from end zone to inside 25 should count as negative yards from the 25. And I do not want hear about homeruns with Bills - makes me throw-up and why introduce baseball analogy into football?
billsfan89 Posted December 14, 2019 Posted December 14, 2019 2 hours ago, DCOrange said: I think most would agree he’s a good returner. Where we differ is that being a good returner still isn’t valuable in today’s NFL Do people forget how bad the return game was last year? A bad return game can cost you games.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted December 14, 2019 Posted December 14, 2019 (edited) The most important thing a returner does it catch the ball. My HS coach taught me that and it makes sense. Don't catch it and its hidden yards lost, not to mention fumbling the catch which is job removal. He is excellent at it and offers a threat on the return. The reason he runs it out is because of the "chance" he breaks it for the big one. Don't try it, never get it. I see no big problem as our average starting position, last I checked, was among the leaders. Edited December 14, 2019 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower 3
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 14, 2019 Posted December 14, 2019 On 12/13/2019 at 12:22 AM, Da webster guy said: Wait, didnt he have 66 and 76 yard returns in back to back games for us this year? ...doesn't matter.....if it's not EVERY game, you earn the "TBD Bust" label.....
HappyDays Posted December 14, 2019 Posted December 14, 2019 On 12/13/2019 at 8:46 AM, DCOrange said: According to Football Outsiders, his return skills (which have been among the best in the league this year) is good for roughly 5 points above the average team (0.36 points per game). This is pretty poor analysis. I imagine having a top 5 LT compared to a bottom 10 LT is good for about the same number of expected points, if not less. The same will be true for most roles on the team outside of QB. No one player contributes that much. Football teams are built on the sum of their parts. And what player that we deactivate on game day is giving us more expected points per game? TJ Yeldon? Duke Williams? Ryan Bates? Roberts doesn't make mistakes and picks up better than average yardage on his returns. That's a lot more valuable than you give credit for.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 14, 2019 Posted December 14, 2019 On 12/8/2019 at 4:45 PM, Warcodered said: Didn't he have the 3rd most return yards going into this game? I mean he hasn't had a homerun yet but he's been consistently good. Correct, Andre' Roberts still has 3rd most return yards in NFL at 26.8 yds, down from a couple weeks ago where it was over 30 yds due to being stuffed so much by the Ravens. He hasn't scored a TD but his long return is 66 yds and he also has a 44 yd, a 40 yd, and a 31 yd return. A couple of those had game impacts. And on average, he does slightly better than taking the touchback (again, this was better before the Ravens game)
Warcodered Posted December 14, 2019 Posted December 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Correct, Andre' Roberts still has 3rd most return yards in NFL at 26.8 yds, down from a couple weeks ago where it was over 30 yds due to being stuffed so much by the Ravens. He hasn't scored a TD but his long return is 66 yds and he also has a 44 yd, a 40 yd, and a 31 yd return. A couple of those had game impacts. And on average, he does slightly better than taking the touchback (again, this was better before the Ravens game) Yeah people seemed to of jumped on this because of the Ravens game where we played against a former ST coordinator now HC who weirdly enough has his team playing great STs. Sure as the game went on I thought they should give returning the kickoff a rest because the Ravens were so on it so well but Roberts almost always got it right around the 25 anyway and there was always a chance for some magic.
DCOrange Posted December 14, 2019 Posted December 14, 2019 4 hours ago, billsfan89 said: Do people forget how bad the return game was last year? A bad return game can cost you games. Per FootballOutsiders (I know I know), our return game is 10 points better than the worst return team in the league. Less than 1 point per game. 2 hours ago, HappyDays said: This is pretty poor analysis. I imagine having a top 5 LT compared to a bottom 10 LT is good for about the same number of expected points, if not less. The same will be true for most roles on the team outside of QB. No one player contributes that much. Football teams are built on the sum of their parts. And what player that we deactivate on game day is giving us more expected points per game? TJ Yeldon? Duke Williams? Ryan Bates? Roberts doesn't make mistakes and picks up better than average yardage on his returns. That's a lot more valuable than you give credit for. I’m not sure any of our reserves are good enough to warrant benching Andre, but I think it could be argued that Andre isn’t really bringing any value anyways so might as well try the WR that gives us a different aspect to the offense. At any rate, we can agree to disagree. Hopefully we can move on after the year is up when we hopefully have a more talented roster.
97bills Posted December 15, 2019 Posted December 15, 2019 On 12/8/2019 at 4:50 PM, Ethan in Portland said: Roberts has been fine. He makes decent decisions and is sure handed. He's not the problem on the 46. Gore doesn't even belong on the 53. Yeldon should be active. Gore has brought nothing to this team. This 1
UConn James Posted December 16, 2019 Posted December 16, 2019 Why the hell does he bring it out of the end zone like every time, only to get crushed at the 20 or, like here, get a penalty. We start at the 10 instead of the 25. Waste of a spot by a guy who thinks he can make something out of every return. No, he can’t. 1
Paulus Posted December 16, 2019 Posted December 16, 2019 He does catch the ball better than some of the other wrs... 2
Dopey Posted December 16, 2019 Posted December 16, 2019 On 12/14/2019 at 4:13 PM, DCOrange said: Per FootballOutsiders (I know I know), our return game is 10 points better than the worst return team in the league. Less than 1 point per game. I’m not sure any of our reserves are good enough to warrant benching Andre, but I think it could be argued that Andre isn’t really bringing any value anyways so might as well try the WR that gives us a different aspect to the offense. At any rate, we can agree to disagree. Hopefully we can move on after the year is up when we hopefully have a more talented roster. 2 really good returns called back by penalty. He's doing just fine. 1
DCOrange Posted December 16, 2019 Posted December 16, 2019 46 minutes ago, Dopey said: 2 really good returns called back by penalty. He's doing just fine. So you agree those returns didn't count for anything then.
Dopey Posted December 16, 2019 Posted December 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, DCOrange said: So you agree those returns didn't count for anything then. No, I disagreed with your assessment that he has no value. Try as you might, you ain't twisting things here.
DCOrange Posted December 16, 2019 Posted December 16, 2019 Just now, Dopey said: No, I disagreed with your assessment that he has no value. Try as you might, you ain't twisting things here. You literally pointed to two plays that had negative or no value as evidence of Roberts having value.
BigBobby Posted December 16, 2019 Posted December 16, 2019 He just needs to kneel when the ball touches the endzone. His KO returns are useless.
Dopey Posted December 16, 2019 Posted December 16, 2019 Just now, DCOrange said: You literally pointed to two plays that had negative or no value as evidence of Roberts having value. You're really blaming him for those negative plays?
DCOrange Posted December 16, 2019 Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Dopey said: You're really blaming him for those negative plays? It doesn't matter who is to blame. Those penalties are coming no matter who the punt returner is and they're coming for every team in the NFL. That's a big reason why punt returns are essentially worthless; you're as likely to lose yards as you are to gain them even if you have an elite returner. We would probably be better off selling out to block every punt so that we can't possibly be called for illegal block in the back and then just fair catch the punt (or let it bounce if we think it'll be a touchback). The EPA on our punt returns relative to the worst team in the league is a difference of 6.5 points in 13 games. The only team with an EPA of more than 1 point per game relative to the worst team in the league is the Saints, who are 6 points better than the #2 team. Anywho, don't really want to argue back and forth on the night that we clinched a playoff spot. Let's just agree to disagree and enjoy the postseason Edited December 16, 2019 by DCOrange
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