EmotionallyUnstable Posted December 7, 2019 Posted December 7, 2019 So I’ve been having an annoying issue with my sump pump. We live in a super saturated area in WNY. Our house has had all sorts of waterproofing done on both the exterior and interior, and it is pretty well taken care of. We’ve been in the house almost 3 years and have totally revamped the water drainage systems. Between the French drains, the sump pump and the exterior rerouting of downspouts from gutters for run-off, it is constantly dry and in good shape. Over the last few days, we’ve had a tremendous amount of water flow into the sump and it is triggering often (every 5-15 minutes). I’m planning to replace the check valve on the discharge line to be sure the water isn’t leaking back in and being recycled around. I just don’t think that’s the cause. I bailed out almost 100 gallons of water of the past few days to try and see if it’s new or recycled flow and water is still trickling in. The flow is not heavy, but it is constant, almost reminiscent of a small leak. I checked the meter at the supply line, and there is a rate of 0.0 GPM when nothing is running, so there doesn’t appear to be an interior leak in any piping. I can’t stop fixating on this, as I’m concerned their is an exterior underground leak that may be causing issues with the foundation (we’ve had trouble in the past). It’s possible that it is just steady melt from the snow, as the sewer lines on the street have a constant flow in them, but it just seems too regular for that. I’ll check with my neighbors to see if they’re having similar issues with drainage. I’ll keep you all posted, as I know you’ll be waiting eagerly for an update. Anyone have similar issues/concerns?
ALF Posted December 7, 2019 Posted December 7, 2019 I have a finished basement so I'm paranoid about water. I would have a backup pump and generator if power goes off. Should not be a problem this time of year normally so keep looking
EmotionallyUnstable Posted December 7, 2019 Author Posted December 7, 2019 27 minutes ago, ALF said: I have a finished basement so I'm paranoid about water. I would have a backup pump and generator if power goes off. Should not be a problem this time of year normally so keep looking Ideally, we’re looking at a water pressure back up but aren’t in the financial position right now to make that happen. jealous of those with a finished basement. If we end up staying in this property long term, the basement must be done! (But want to make sure we’ve taken the proper steps to eradicate and water issues first)
Gray Beard Posted December 7, 2019 Posted December 7, 2019 The sump pump is the key to happiness for my house. I obsess on it. I’m in the Utica area. My house is built on a hill so the garage is in the basement. The sump pump is in the garage. We get torrential rains or rapid snow melts about once per year and when that happens the sump pump doesn’t always keep up. When the sump pump can’t keep up about an inch or so of water will puddle in the garage, then it will flow out the garage door. Since it’s in the garage, it rarely floods in the finished part of the basement or the basement laundry area. We know to avoid leaving cardboard boxes or electric wires on the garage floor. The sump pump has been pretty active lately. We’ve had a wet spell of weather, and the ground isn’t frozen so the water finds its way into the sump pump hole. Usually the spring thaw is an active time of year for the sump pump, especially if there is a heavy March or April rain storm. Needless to say, I pay attention to that thing and replace it periodically just to be safe. I usually replace it in July or August when it’s the driest part of the year. I was going to do it last summer, but I got lazy and then I missed the window of opportunity.
US Egg Posted December 7, 2019 Posted December 7, 2019 A battery backup sump pump adds some peace of mind.
Gray Beard Posted December 7, 2019 Posted December 7, 2019 22 minutes ago, I am the egg man said: A battery backup sump pump adds some peace of mind. I know some people who have water powered backup sump pumps. The municipal water pressure is used to turn a turbine which then turns a pump. The used municipal water and the sump pump water both go out to wherever the sump pump water goes. 3
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 7, 2019 Posted December 7, 2019 41 minutes ago, Gugny said: @ExiledInIllinois in 3 .... 2 .... Thanx... Without the tag and ShoutOut... I might have missed this. You're like a "high water alarm!" OP... I am fully analyzing your post as we speak. Special out to one of the gray beards. I forget which one... So confusing! @Greybeard @Gray Beard @Graybeard Who knew there were so many! Oh wait, the one I am looking for is in post #4 & #6! 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 7, 2019 Posted December 7, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said: So I’ve been having an annoying issue with my sump pump. We live in a super saturated area in WNY. Our house has had all sorts of waterproofing done on both the exterior and interior, and it is pretty well taken care of. We’ve been in the house almost 3 years and have totally revamped the water drainage systems. Between the French drains, the sump pump and the exterior rerouting of downspouts from gutters for run-off, it is constantly dry and in good shape. Over the last few days, we’ve had a tremendous amount of water flow into the sump and it is triggering often (every 5-15 minutes). I’m planning to replace the check valve on the discharge line to be sure the water isn’t leaking back in and being recycled around. I just don’t think that’s the cause. I bailed out almost 100 gallons of water of the past few days to try and see if it’s new or recycled flow and water is still trickling in. The flow is not heavy, but it is constant, almost reminiscent of a small leak. I checked the meter at the supply line, and there is a rate of 0.0 GPM when nothing is running, so there doesn’t appear to be an interior leak in any piping. I can’t stop fixating on this, as I’m concerned their is an exterior underground leak that may be causing issues with the foundation (we’ve had trouble in the past). It’s possible that it is just steady melt from the snow, as the sewer lines on the street have a constant flow in them, but it just seems too regular for that. I’ll check with my neighbors to see if they’re having similar issues with drainage. I’ll keep you all posted, as I know you’ll be waiting eagerly for an update. Anyone have similar issues/concerns? ....you probably have a service line from the house out to a storm sewer catch basin in the street.........material used depends on the age of the home.......started having water issues with my sump pump....2 inches of water in basement after heavy rain....threw TWO submersibles into the crock and the 3 could not keep up...I estimated inflows to be 75 gallons per minute.....had a dual sump pump system installed which could not keep up with next heavy rain ($2,200).......turned out the service line was constructed of clay tile pipe with pressed joints circa 1957......tree roots rendered the line unusable...abandoned it and had a contractor run 80' of 4 inch schedule 40 pvc to catch basin ($5,000)........never a problem since....unbeknown to me, my homeowner's insurance changed coverage the year before to INCLUDE sanitary and service line issues....after my $500 deductible, they sent me a check for $4,500.....suggest you check with your municipality to see what type of material was used for both service and sanitary lines (in the 50's, there was widespread use of orangeburg pipe for sanitary which is nothing more than cardboard fiber, like the spool for a roll of carpet; major, MAJOR issues in my town; idea was to conserve cast iron during Korean War).......then check your homeowner's policy regarding coverage for sanitary/service lines....hope this helps.... Edited December 7, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy 2 1
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 7, 2019 Posted December 7, 2019 2 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said: So I’ve been having an annoying issue with my sump pump. We live in a super saturated area in WNY. Our house has had all sorts of waterproofing done on both the exterior and interior, and it is pretty well taken care of. We’ve been in the house almost 3 years and have totally revamped the water drainage systems. Between the French drains, the sump pump and the exterior rerouting of downspouts from gutters for run-off, it is constantly dry and in good shape. Over the last few days, we’ve had a tremendous amount of water flow into the sump and it is triggering often (every 5-15 minutes). I’m planning to replace the check valve on the discharge line to be sure the water isn’t leaking back in and being recycled around. I just don’t think that’s the cause. I bailed out almost 100 gallons of water of the past few days to try and see if it’s new or recycled flow and water is still trickling in. The flow is not heavy, but it is constant, almost reminiscent of a small leak. I checked the meter at the supply line, and there is a rate of 0.0 GPM when nothing is running, so there doesn’t appear to be an interior leak in any piping. I can’t stop fixating on this, as I’m concerned their is an exterior underground leak that may be causing issues with the foundation (we’ve had trouble in the past). It’s possible that it is just steady melt from the snow, as the sewer lines on the street have a constant flow in them, but it just seems too regular for that. I’ll check with my neighbors to see if they’re having similar issues with drainage. I’ll keep you all posted, as I know you’ll be waiting eagerly for an update. Anyone have similar issues/concerns? You may have high water table... Or dtains set lower, basement deeper than neighbors. I know I take the heat off my neighbors being slighly lower than their sumps. Yes. I have heavy clay soil in this area. You'll know if check valve is leaking. Just look, listen at the pipe, look at bottom of pump after the pump runs. It's NOT that much water in pipe. Get a PumpSpy: http://pumpspy.com During dry spells... My pump will run once or twice a day. When it poors... It will run every 30 secs! THIRTY SECONDS. I set the pump below discharge inlet. Drain the lines around house. A standard 4" line dry during dry spells will give you "reserve capacity" when it storms and power goes out. You wanna hit that storm with a dry line. Also, I have an extremely small sump. <<<<<< like @BringBackFergy @Cripple Creek and especially @Gugny... Gug has the smallest pit of all. Get an electronic switch. Mechanical switches have moving parts, wear... https://www.plumbingsupply.com/sumpwatcher.html A good pump controller will actually tell you when pump is burning out. When there is blocked discharge, high water... Go piggyback switch... You won't have to yank the pump out in storm to change switch. If you are worried about water cycling around... You could dye the ground as a tracer: 3 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....you probably have a service line from the house out to a storm sewer catch basin in the street.........material used depends on the age of the home.......started having water issues with my sump pump....2 inches of water in basement after heavy rain....threw TWO submersibles into the crock and the 3 could not keep up...I estimated inflows to be 75 gallons per minute.....had a dual sump pump system installed which could not keep up with next heavy rain ($2,200).......turned out the service line was constructed of clay tile pipe with pressed joints circa 1957......tree roots rendered the line unusable...abandoned it and had a contractor run 80' of 4 inch schedule 40 pvc to catch basin ($5,000)........never a problem since....unbeknown to me, my homeowner's insurance changed coverage the year before to INCLUDE sanitary and service line issues....after my $500 deductible, they sent me a check for $4,500.....suggest you check with your municipality to see what type of material was used for both service and sanitary lines (in the 50's, there was widespread use of orangeburg pipe for sanitary which is nothing more than cardboard fiber, like the spool for a roll of carpet; major, MAJOR issues in my town).......then check your homeowner's policy regarding coverage for sanitary/service lines....hope this helps.... Orangeburg (yes named after town in NYS) was meant to be cheap... Same with corrugated plastic. But that's better. Ideally you want smooth PVC. Obviously the modern corrugated plastic is better used widely... But if you can, build, go 4-6" PVC. $$$$$
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 7, 2019 Posted December 7, 2019 16 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: You may have high water table... Or dtains set lower, basement deeper than neighbors. I know I take the heat off my neighbors being slighly lower than their sumps. Yes. I have heavy clay soil in this area. You'll know if check valve is leaking. Just look, listen at the pipe, look at bottom of pump after the pump runs. It's NOT that much water in pipe. Get a PumpSpy: http://pumpspy.com During dry spells... My pump will run once or twice a day. When it poors... It will run every 30 secs! THIRTY SECONDS. I set the pump below discharge inlet. Drain the lines around house. A standard 4" line dry during dry spells will give you "reserve capacity" when it storms and power goes out. You wanna hit that storm with a dry line. Also, I have an extremely small sump. <<<<<< like @BringBackFergy @Cripple Creek and especially @Gugny... Gug has the smallest pit of all. Get an electronic switch. Mechanical switches have moving parts, wear... https://www.plumbingsupply.com/sumpwatcher.html A good pump controller will actually tell you when pump is burning out. When there is blocked discharge, high water... Go piggyback switch... You won't have to yank the pump out in storm to change switch. If you are worried about water cycling around... You could dye the ground as a tracer: Orangeburg (yes named after town in NYS) was meant to be cheap... Same with corrugated plastic. But that's better. Ideally you want smooth PVC. Obviously the modern corrugated plastic is better used widely... But if you can, build, go 4-6" PVC. $$$$$ ...my project had the makings of a GIANT cluster "F", so PLEASE do your due diligence and homework.....I first called my Town.....they are only responsible for flows within the 15' easement and said there was "flow"...next Town guy who came out said to abandon the existing service line from front of the house to catch basin and run pvc through the side yard and let the water leech......NEXT Town guy who came out said if I did this and the was water ponding in the street, causing ice conditions in the Winter, I would have to rip everything up or extend the piping an additional 100' around the curb to the catch basin....typical municipal azzclowns....contractor wanted to excavate a portion of my patio and adjacent sidewalk and run 30' of pvc to tie into existing clay tile pipe (open ended T&M starting at $7,500) hoping that was enough, but if not, "we'll keep going($$$$)"...seriously?.....I run the financial ops for a MAJOR electrical contractor and open ended T&M would NEVER happen (ain't my first rodeo).....finally said abandon existing clay tile system and run new pvc to catch basin...... 1
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 7, 2019 Posted December 7, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Gray Beard said: I know some people who have water powered backup sump pumps. The municipal water pressure is used to turn a turbine which then turns a pump. The used municipal water and the sump pump water both go out to wherever the sump pump water goes. Lot of times those venturi pumps after sitting idle for long periods will leak. Need maintenance. No harm leaking, it's leaking right into pit... ...I added a water line right next to sump pit with hose bibb on end... To always have that option. Helps me clean the sump out few times a year... Also, allows to test during dry spells. I have one of these in case of dire emergency... Lost power, generator crapped out, outta of fuel, etc... Take the edge of water rising. Remember: Basement won't flood till all the pipe in drain tile around house fills totally up. That's usually hundreds of feet of 4" drain tile. The pit will raise fast to that inlet... Then slow as drains backup, fill... Then about a foot of ground needs saturate... THEN water will find it's way in at lowest joint between basement wall and floor. Always best to pump as much water away and keep that drain tile dry during drought periods. Don't leave standing water in drain tile! That limits your reserve capacity during a storm, power loss event. Handle it, pump away during drought. Think of that drain tile as a reservoir during a pump, power failure. I don't sweat when my pump goes off every 30 seconds or continuously during storms. It's doing it's job, because when it's dry out, not raining, it slows to a handful of times a day with the pump operating. I can see that all via the PumpSpy app: Look... Last time it really rained here was 11/21 - 11/22... And that's nothing. I have seen 2,600 pump cycles during cataclysmic storms: Again... Being proactive, maintenance, redundant pumps is the key. Maintain the switch, pump, etc... I put in a separate pvc discharge pipe and added another AC pump that always sits high out of water (less wear) from main pump. That is on an inverter to a DC battery. The battery charges via AC. If main pump fails or discharge jams, freezes, that will pick it up thru separate discharge (AC pump run off AC mains)... OR, if power failure and I can't get to generator because I am away (AC pump run off Deep Cycle Battery) Edited December 7, 2019 by ExiledInIllinois 1
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 7, 2019 Posted December 7, 2019 1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...my project had the makings of a GIANT cluster "F", so PLEASE do your due diligence and homework.....I first called my Town.....they are only responsible for flows within the 15' easement and said there was "flow"...next Town guy who came out said to abandon the existing service line from front of the house to catch basin and run pvc through the side yard and let the water leech......NEXT Town guy who came out said if I did this and the was water ponding in the street, causing ice conditions in the Winter, I would have to rip everything up or extend the piping an additional 100' around the curb to the catch basin....typical municipal azzclowns....contractor wanted to excavate a portion of my patio and adjacent sidewalk and run 30' of pvc to tie into existing clay tile pipe (open ended T&M starting at $7,500) hoping that was enough, but if not, "we'll keep going($$$$)"...seriously?.....I run the financial ops for a MAJOR electrical contractor and open ended T&M would NEVER happen (ain't my first rodeo).....finally said abandon existing clay tile system and run new pvc to catch basin...... I totally agree! PVC... I got corrugated plastic... That's made to be economical on farms. Will last long time... PVC is smooth, is best. I am lucky... My house built in 1996... Codes, they can't just put houses in every spot. If my subdivision went up in 1960s... No doubt they would have planted a house in the allotted retention pond that sits there today. Why houses were cheaper back then. Fewer houses absorb that cost.
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 7, 2019 Posted December 7, 2019 Here is a great electronic pump controller. Again, no moving parts, floats to hang up in small pit, etc... https://www.amazon.com/LevelGuard-Z24800A1Z-Solid-State-Switch/dp/B0096H5OUO/ref=asc_df_B0096H5OUO/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198097979185&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2096194501190347352&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9021638&hvtargid=pla-323324349092&psc=1 They make a commer one that can be smeared with peanut butter, poopyshit, effluent and TP for our bungholes... Even grease and it will still sense the water! Only a hundro + bucks... Remember... The plumber will sell you a Hydromatic, Zoeller, those are great pumps, but they are automatic pumps with switch under the water... Gotta pull them out of hole to fix the switch. Go manual pump with piggy back switch (makes it automatic)! If switch goes, you can abandon broken switch and add piggy back in seconds without having to pull out pump from service. Heck, you can just have your wife or kids stand there all night plugging, unplugging if switch went bad! ? ? NOTE: Plumbers want return calls. SumpWatcher is loaded with various alarms. High water, will tell you if pump motor windings are failing... Doesn't have a low water shut off point. It shuts pump off at low water when it senses the pump current changing when pump sucks air . Takes a millisecond to sense: They do make this for sewage. Yet, the sensor on LevelGuard will handle total gunk.
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 7, 2019 Posted December 7, 2019 (edited) FWIW... Basement Watchdog make great products. If you want mechanical floats... Here is a great one. Two switches. If first one fails, second one will press into service. Caged too. So, no hanging up in narrow sumps: Neighbor using this for 10 years... I just hope the second float is not activated... CON: No easy way to tell if your pump is on second float unless you watch, test it regularly. Should have a light that engages like a surge protector indicator. Edited December 7, 2019 by ExiledInIllinois
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 7, 2019 Posted December 7, 2019 42 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: I totally agree! PVC... I got corrugated plastic... That's made to be economical on farms. Will last long time... PVC is smooth, is best. I am lucky... My house built in 1996... Codes, they can't just put houses in every spot. If my subdivision went up in 1960s... No doubt they would have planted a house in the allotted retention pond that sits there today. Why houses were cheaper back then. Fewer houses absorb that cost. ...I like the rigidity of pvc and the extra money was worth it...EASILY will outlast me... 1
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 7, 2019 Posted December 7, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...I like the rigidity of pvc and the extra money was worth it...EASILY will outlast me... Bingo! Any dip in corrugated plastic will collect water, dirt. My underground discharge after 10 years, I had to access it, rod it. I actually sleeved it... It was like pottery chunks coming out with snake I sent down. Formed like glass, shape of corrugated too! If you can 6" PVC... $$$$ you can always sleeve smaller in it, not that you will for 50 years anyway... But it does depend on how careful you back fill, settles, tree roots, etc... Where PVC is vulnerable is at pass through in house. Use cast iron, then adapt back to PVC on both side. Foundation settles. Settles, backfilling may crack it and will never know for years. Neighbor across street, builder passed through with PVC, must have cracked during backfill with dirt... Every time he flushed toilet, water made way thru ground to drain tile and sump went off! Sanitary sewer was on opposite side of house too!!! Edited December 7, 2019 by ExiledInIllinois
Cripple Creek Posted December 7, 2019 Posted December 7, 2019 3 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said: You may have high water table... Or dtains set lower, basement deeper than neighbors. I know I take the heat off my neighbors being slighly lower than their sumps. Or some asswhole is reversing the natural flow of water and mucking up what Mother Nature has intended. 2
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 7, 2019 Posted December 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said: Or some asswhole is reversing the natural flow of water and mucking up what Mother Nature has intended. Noooooo. With Lake Michigan at current levels... It would naturally be flowing in the direction it is now. We are just regulating it, letting it ramble and do some work (flood control, navigation, economy, sanitation) in return. Just like Woody Guthrie sang almost 90 years ago: "Uncle Sam took the challenge in the year of '33 For the farmers and the workers and for all humanity Now river, you can ramble where the sun sets in the sea But while you're rambling, river, you can do some work for me..." If we didn't control... Too much water would be flowing the way you think it shouldn't. So what gives, why are you so conflicted?
Cripple Creek Posted December 7, 2019 Posted December 7, 2019 Just now, ExiledInIllinois said: Noooooo. With Lake Michigan at current levels... It would naturally be flowing in the direction it is now. We are just regulating it, letting it ramble and do some work (flood control, navigation, economy, sanitation) in return. Just like Woody Guthrie sang almost 90 years ago: "Uncle Sam took the challenge in the year of '33 For the farmers and the workers and for all humanity Now river, you can ramble where the sun sets in the sea But while you're rambling, river, you can do some work for me..." If we didn't control... Too much water would be flowing the way you think it shouldn't. So what gives, why are you so conflicted? you regulated my father right out of business
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