Doc Posted December 8, 2019 Posted December 8, 2019 32 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: What you say is absolutely correct, what Miami did/is doing made totally no sense. A seasoned veteran who can still play will usually outplay a rookie. If Fitz had been here last season or early this season, he likely would have been able to outplay Allen! Remember all the calls for Barkley we were getting? That doesn't mean you shouldn't play the rookie but what I think went on is that with all the player-dumping that went on right up to the trade deadline, Flores was in danger of totally losing the locker room. The player-dumping meant a constantly changing cast of guys who needed to be told where to line up, what their role was in different protection calls and so forth. Fitz is totally able to do his part and tell 10 other guys what to do as well at this point. Rosen, probably not so much. Now it might also be possible that Rosen just sucks, I don't know, I'm just giving my understanding of why he might not totally suck and yet still not be playing. Fair enough. I still say he's a bust and I'm so glad I was wrong on him and that the Bills didn't take him.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 8, 2019 Posted December 8, 2019 15 minutes ago, Doc said: Fair enough. I still say he's a bust and I'm so glad I was wrong on him and that the Bills didn't take him. I was a "Wrong Josh!"er too Whether or not Allen continues to evolve and works out long term, I will most definitely chow down my helping of "Crow Pie" on that one because the results so far are unambiguous. I will admit I totally did not 'get' the impact of "intangibles" such as being able to lead and inspire teammates to play with him. Our Josh has that in spades. Rosen, not so much it would seem. For another, from various things that he's said in interviews, I have the impression that Mr "Most Pro Ready" Rosen actually did not know things this season that you would expect a pro-ready QB who has actually played 13 NFL games to know - how to identify the Mike, how to break down film and prepare during the week, how to read the defense and know where to go with the ball based on what he sees, etc. Either he had crappy coaching in Arizona (which seems totally possible) or he just didn't know what he didn't know, and that interfered with his ability to learn
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 8, 2019 Posted December 8, 2019 10 minutes ago, Tcali said: i agree. i like both darnold and mayfield.they are both going to be very good. mayfield is already good Would you make that "is already good" if Allen, like Mayfield in his second year, was 33rd in the league in passer rating, 31st in INTs thrown (only one fewer INT than TD thrown), and had seen a 4% drop in completion percentage, a drop from 2 to 1.25 TD per game, and 23 ypg passing between his first and second year? And this despite much-balleyhooed additions in offensive skill positions and a coaching change that was favored by the QB? I think, were that the case, everyone here would be Mi-tee concerned. 2
Doc Posted December 8, 2019 Posted December 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I was a "Wrong Josh!"er too Whether or not Allen continues to evolve and works out long term, I will most definitely chow down my helping of "Crow Pie" on that one because the results so far are unambiguous. I will admit I totally did not 'get' the impact of "intangibles" such as being able to lead and inspire teammates to play with him. Our Josh has that in spades. Rosen, not so much it would seem. For another, from various things that he's said in interviews, I have the impression that Mr "Most Pro Ready" Rosen actually did not know things this season that you would expect a pro-ready QB who has actually played 13 NFL games to know - how to identify the Mike, how to break down film and prepare during the week, how to read the defense and know where to go with the ball based on what he sees, etc. Either he had crappy coaching in Arizona (which seems totally possible) or he just didn't know what he didn't know, and that interfered with his ability to learn I didn't want Allen and wanted Rosen, and was pissed to learn that not only did they draft Allen, but they traded up for him. I believe I was proven wrong. And if Rosen had shown that he was a leader and any signs of improvement, I think Flores wouldn't have had a mutiny on his hands. I think they realize they made a mistake a will have to spend a high 1st rounder on a QB next year.
Thurman#1 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) On 12/8/2019 at 4:27 AM, CincyBillsFan said: And this is why I've been on the Allen train from the start. He had to overcome a bad situation that management placed him in and he did. Now the question is whether Darnold can do the same. I think he can based on what I've seen to date but it's comforting to know our guy already has. First, he hasn't overcome it yet. It looks increasingly like he will, but the results aren't in yet. Second, it wasn't a particularly bad situation if it only lasts a year or so. Most QBs picked early in the first have worse situations, as they're mostly being picked by crappy teams with bad management. We appear to have good management, at long last. Third, the person who put the Bills in a bad situation was Doug Whaley by putting us in cap hell while only assembling a mediocre roster with no franchise QB. Beane and McDermott have maximized Allen so far. They've done a great job, and that's why he's got pretty good offensive talent around him in his second year and a terrific defense meaning the offense doesn't generally have to score very much. I'm no Jets fan but I tend to root for most players early in their careers. Except Patriots. I wish Darnold the best. Edited December 9, 2019 by Thurman#1 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 On 12/7/2019 at 8:15 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said: Would you make that "is already good" if Allen, like Mayfield in his second year, was 33rd in the league in passer rating, 31st in INTs thrown (only one fewer INT than TD thrown), and had seen a 4% drop in completion percentage, a drop from 2 to 1.25 TD per game, and 23 ypg passing between his first and second year? And this despite much-balleyhooed additions in offensive skill positions and a coaching change that was favored by the QB? I think, were that the case, everyone here would be Mi-tee concerned. Who needs facts, when there's emoting to do?
CLTbills Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 On 12/7/2019 at 12:40 AM, whatdrought said: I hope Darnold is a slow bust who takes years of that franchises time only to end up being a scrub. Hell yes. I hope he's Mariota 2.0.
CLTbills Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) On 12/7/2019 at 8:15 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said: Would you make that "is already good" if Allen, like Mayfield in his second year, was 33rd in the league in passer rating, 31st in INTs thrown (only one fewer INT than TD thrown), and had seen a 4% drop in completion percentage, a drop from 2 to 1.25 TD per game, and 23 ypg passing between his first and second year? And this despite much-balleyhooed additions in offensive skill positions and a coaching change that was favored by the QB? I think, were that the case, everyone here would be Mi-tee concerned. That's the biggest thing. Faker has arguably the best group of skill position players in the NFL. Jarvis Landry, OBJ, Nick Chubb, Kareem Hunt. Even add in Njoku. Can you think of a team that has more talent at the skill positions than that? I'd be freaking out if my QB wasn't performing, or even regressing, with that kind of talent around him. On 12/7/2019 at 7:56 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said: I was a "Wrong Josh!"er too Whether or not Allen continues to evolve and works out long term, I will most definitely chow down my helping of "Crow Pie" on that one because the results so far are unambiguous. I will admit I totally did not 'get' the impact of "intangibles" such as being able to lead and inspire teammates to play with him. Our Josh has that in spades. Rosen, not so much it would seem. For another, from various things that he's said in interviews, I have the impression that Mr "Most Pro Ready" Rosen actually did not know things this season that you would expect a pro-ready QB who has actually played 13 NFL games to know - how to identify the Mike, how to break down film and prepare during the week, how to read the defense and know where to go with the ball based on what he sees, etc. Either he had crappy coaching in Arizona (which seems totally possible) or he just didn't know what he didn't know, and that interfered with his ability to learn Couldn't agree more. I was pissed when Goodell said "Allen" instead of "Rosen" on draft night. And like you, I didn't realize how much those intangibles really matter. I do remember there being concerns about Rosen in leadership, but I wasn't really worried about it. Young Mr. Allen has proved that that is just as important as talent, and the work ethic that is required at the pro level as far as preparation and film study is far greater than in college. On a side note.... the teams are interviewing these kids, sitting down with them, etc. Us fans aren't. So we aren't seeing the "behind the scenes" things that the teams are seeing. I learned a lesson as a fan through the whole QB thing. Trust the process. Trust the McBeane. They know what they're doing. Edited December 9, 2019 by CLTbills
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