The Impeachment Trial of President Donald J. Trump

[Bob in Mich]

I appreciate responses to my questions and comments.  I appreciate the discussion. 

 

The fact is though I can't really keep up with replying to everyone especially if that reply takes a long time.  If I miss a key question or comment, feel free to bring it up again.

[Gavin in Va Beach]

Just now, Bob in Mich said:

What beyond getting a cushy job because of the name Biden, do you think happened?  The firing of the prosecutor that Joe Biden urged was aligned with our national policy then, right?  The quid pro quo was not, as in Trump's case, done in direct opposition with policy.  The firing may have helped Burisma and Hunter, that is a point of contention, but if JoeB was following national policy, it doesn't seem illegal to me. 

 

If you were in your mid forties and out of work and had questionable judgement, would you take a job that paid $83k monthly even if it made your Dad look bad?  Lots of folks would and Hunter is apparently one.  Aside from taking the job and it looking bad, what do you think Hunter will tell us if he testifies?

 

Your whole premise rests on the idea that Hunter was lounging around in his pjs, searching Monster.com job postings and happened to come along this position for Burisma and sent his resume in. That's ridiculous.

This was set up deliberately as a channel by Burisma to influence policy and provide kickbacks, and with Papa Joe's full knowledge and support.

[B-Man]

 

 

It's like a game of chicken.

 

The Democrats really don’t want witnesses, they just want to be able to accuse the GOP of blocking them.

 

Democrats have a lot more exposure than Trump.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[BillsFanNC]

7 minutes ago, Gavin in Va Beach said:

 

It's outrageous, and if it were the other way round the media would be pounding the drum 24-7 about it, demanding to release the transcript. But since it's Schiff /The Dems and #Orangemanbad, we get crickets.

 

The guy who has intimate first hand knowledge of the origins of this entire investigation. I don't imagine he needed to use the words presumption or guess much during his testimony.  Nah, we dont need to hear from him.

[Westside]

36 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Hillary sent emails! 

 

My God! The stark level of disparity between accountability is unbelievable. Hillary sent emails and erased a few.

It's running through the right wing media sphere 

Do you call 31,000 emails few? You're so dishonest. 

[Bob in Mich]

38 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

Hillary Clinton’s emails.

Benghasi.

Fast and Furious. 

 

But thats not not even the issue. What you fail to see is that the Hiuse Democrats had every opportunity to get to the “truth” and they puked on themselves. And then when they realized that they screwed up, they began to crow about more witnesses in the Senate. This came after holding the Articles for a month and after Bolton said he’d comply with a Senate Subpoena. Bolton was being disingenuous. If he’d comply with a Senate Suppbpoena don’t you think he’d show up for a House Subpoena? There’s nothing preventing the House from gathering more witnesses. They said so themselves. Perhaps they don’t want the “truth” like you do. Perhaps they just want to score political points against Senate Republicans by making them look like obstructionists. That ploy has worked on a lot of people. 

 

 

 

 

 

You’re never going to get the full story.  And I’d add to that you’ve been presented with enough. So have I. 

 

 

 

 

See. You’ve apparently seen enough.

I think all you want is irrefutable confirmation about what you suspect.  As for your speculation about Trump doing this over and over with other countries, I can’t help you. Just don’t vote for him. Democrats’ mission accomplished.  

 

 

 

This happens with both parties. 

But I will give you an example in Trump’s Presidency: the Congressional Freedom Caucus killed Trump’s first attempt to re-do ADA if I recall correctly. 

 

 

 

Your last sentence doesn’t make sense.

I blame the House Democrats for this nonsense, yes.  It is a thinly veiled (latest attempt) to “get him”. 

 

I’ll answer your question with some questions of my own: how do you feel about Trump and Netanyahu having a major press conference/announcement regarding an Israeli/Palestinian peace plan?  Perfectly normal Presidential activity, right? He’s going to use that with his campaign, yes? Can you think of any other President that has used foreign relations and international policy as campaign points?

 

Yes, of course Trump is ham-handed and a narcissistic ass. No, the phone call wasn’t “perfect”, but it wasn’t impeachable either. To me, there should be no doubt about the fact that the President committed a crime.  In this case, the House Democrats have run with a weak case and haven’t come up with any crime. Then while doing so, they’ve tripped over themselves. And when they realized that there isn’t much to the case, they manipulated the entire process to extend the dog and pony show to impress people who already hate the President.

 

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.  As mentioned, there is a lot to respond to right now.  I won't go point by point but generally speaking, I disagree.  lol

 

Briefly, you and I may agree on what happened with Trump and Ukraine.  I am unsure but even if so, many others are not on that same page.  You don't think everyone agrees on the events at this point, do you?

 

Bolton...I don't know why he is willing to testify to the Senate but claimed he would fight the House's subpoena.  Maybe closer now to the book release?  Maybe he felt he would get better protection from the Repub Senate versus the House Dems?  I don't know.  I think you are aware though that the House asking for a ruling on 'absolute immunity' would likely take several months.  Then, the uncooperative witness would likely have declared executive privilege and the court process would have began again.  I can't recall exactly but I saw some commentator say there was actually a third level of privilege that would then be taken to the courts.  I mentioned earlier that the Dems have been accused of going too fast and at the same time accused of dragging it out until election time.  Anyway, an unwilling witness can delay for likely more than a year.  Bolton is willing to testify to the Senate.  That is a key difference now with respect to Bolton versus the situation the House had.

 

Israel-Palestine....I have no problem using 'accomplishments' involving foreigners.  Crow away about foreign policy decisions.  Just don't use the power of the office to try to pressure foreign leaders to attack and smear US political candidates.

[Tiberius]

24 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Which right wing media? I could only find the one website- where are you looking? If I went to democratic underground I can find plenty of people calling Trump a dictator but normal people don't believe that.

Dictator? Well, that's pretty easy to check on. Saying someone had secret dirty deals with corrupt actors is harder to disprove. 

 

7 minutes ago, westside2 said:

Do you call 31,000 emails few? You're so dishonest. 

Oh, so you are for transperancy now? I guess Trump should release his taxes, allow witnesses to testify at legal proceeding, release the transcripts of his Putin meeting, etc. 

 

So shut up  

[keepthefaith]

19 minutes ago, Gavin in Va Beach said:

 

Your whole premise rests on the idea that Hunter was lounging around in his pjs, searching Monster.com job postings and happened to come along this position for Burisma and sent his resume in. That's ridiculous.

This was set up deliberately as a channel by Burisma to influence policy and provide kickbacks, and with Papa Joe's full knowledge and support.

Of course it was.  What's really amazing is how brazen Joe Biden was in all of this.  It shows how protected the ruling class feels it is.  Joe's always had somewhat of a "he's a good guy" public persona.  This Ukraine deal plus some other suspicious deals involving family really say otherwise.  

 

 

[Westside]

4 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Dictator? Well, that's pretty easy to check on. Saying someone had secret dirty deals with corrupt actors is harder to disprove. 

 

Oh, so you are for transperancy now? I guess Trump should release his taxes, allow witnesses to testify at legal proceeding, release the transcripts of his Putin meeting, etc. 

 

So shut up  

Whataboutism,  it's a great look on you.

[BillsFanNC]

Shoe on the other foot. Replace Hunter Biden with Eric Trump and Joe Biden with Mike Pence. All other facts remain the same.

 

In what alternate universe is this story consistently derided as a debunked conspiracy theory when you change  just those two actors?

[Bob in Mich]

47 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

Seems like he might add some much needed context to the truth. Should we hear his already given testimony? Hiding of the truth going on here perhaps?

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/23/michael-atkinson-testimony-concealed-adam-schiff/

 

Rep. Adam B. Schiff, California Democrat, and other impeachment managers repeatedly talk about the 17 witnesses interviewed during the House’s secretive depositions. But they do not mention an 18th witness, Michael Atkinson, the intelligence community’s inspector general who has firsthand knowledge of the origins of the whistleblower complaint that led to the impeachment.

 

 

The potentially exculpatory evidence for Mr. Trump has remained classified and is not part of the record for the impeachment trial.

Because it remains classified, only members of the intelligence committee have seen it and Mr. Trump’s legal team is denied a copy.

Maybe they should call him as a Senate witness.  I am being truthful, I don't know what the guy's role was or what he might say.  Let's find out.  Call him.  Did the WH defense lawyers talk about Atkinson's position?

[Warren Zevon]

3 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

Shoe on the other foot. Replace Hunter Biden with Eric Trump and Joe Biden with Mike Pence. All other facts remain the same.

 

In what alternate universe is this story consistently derided as a debunked conspiracy theory when you change  just those two actors?

 

Nepotism ain't new. Trump's kids are also benefiting from new positions in which they have no background in. It doesn't make it illegal, though.

[Bob in Mich]

44 minutes ago, Foxx said:

Bob, they have dragged out investigations of Trump since before he was elected. it is still going on. yes, the House rushed the impeachment. this isn't hard, Bob.

 

May not be hard if you ignore half the story I guess.  Was it rushed or are they dragging this out?  Seems claiming both just allows you to think you should just plain complain.  Figure out later why, eh?

 

So, you then would not complain if the House reopens this and goes through the subpeona/court cases?  Still no issue if hearings run up to election day?

[BillsFanNC]

2 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said:

Maybe they should call him as a Senate witness.  I am being truthful, I don't know what the guy's role was or what he might say.  Let's find out.  Call him.  Did the WH defense lawyers talk about Atkinson's position?

 

Call them all. Bolton, Atkinson, Bidens, whistleblower, Schiff..... All of them. 

 

I dont know if Trumps lawyers mentioned Atkinson outright, but I doubt it since they've been denied a transcript of his testimony.  

 

But here at PPP we can deal in conjecture. Why would you guess that Adam Schiff has sealed his testimony? Maybe, just maybe might it not comport with his version of the truth?

[Bob in Mich]

1 hour ago, Gavin in Va Beach said:

 

Your whole premise rests on the idea that Hunter was lounging around in his pjs, searching Monster.com job postings and happened to come along this position for Burisma and sent his resume in. That's ridiculous.

This was set up deliberately as a channel by Burisma to influence policy and provide kickbacks, and with Papa Joe's full knowledge and support.

 

I am unsure how you got that impression of the hiring.  It wasn't in my posting.  I imagine Burisma put Biden on the board to try to add a measure of legitimacy.  Board members are very often 'names' and not necessarily subject matter experts, as in Hunter's Amtrak board job.

 

If there is proof of illegal schemes and payments, that should be uncovered.  If illegal actions were taken, discover who and punish appropriately.  What proof is out there of this?

Edited January 29, 2020 by Bob in Mich

[keepthefaith]

11 minutes ago, Gary Busey said:

 

Nepotism ain't new. Trump's kids are also benefiting from new positions in which they have no background in. It doesn't make it illegal, though.

 

Joe didn't just get his kid a job.   He exerted his will and the will of our country on another nation for the benefit of his son and his son's employer.  That's breaking the law. 

[Foxx]

35 minutes ago, westside2 said:

Do you call 31,000 emails few? You're so dishonest. 

you apparently have no idea how many emails tibsey has.

[BillsFanNC]

14 minutes ago, Gary Busey said:

 

Nepotism ain't new. Trump's kids are also benefiting from new positions in which they have no background in. It doesn't make it illegal, though.

 So to be clear, just changing those two names and you're still cool with everything?

[Whatnot78]

4 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said:

 

I am unsure how you got that impression of the hiring.  It wasn't in my posting.  I imagine Burisma put Biden on the board to try to add a measure of legitimacy.  Board members are very often 'names' and not necessarily subject matter experts, as in Hunter's Amtrak board job.

 

If there is proof of illegal schemes and payments, that should be uncovered.  If illegal actions were taken.  Discover who and punish appropriately.  What proof is out there of this?

 

If you try, you'll be impeached...

[GG]

17 minutes ago, Gary Busey said:

 

Nepotism ain't new. Trump's kids are also benefiting from new positions in which they have no background in. It doesn't make it illegal, though.

 

There's a wide world of difference between using family connections to get a high profile job in the public sector and using your government family connections to build up your family's fortune in the private sector.